Suns moving up to #13 pick?

[thegrahamcrackr]

and too bad buckner is on the Nuggets roster.

LOL

 

[F-Dog]

Just throwing in my hat in support of SunsTzu here.

Historically, there's no place for rookies on a contending team. If you're talking about next year only, it's hard to justify any player in the draft over Barbosa (other than possibly Brandon Roy).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just throwing in my hat in support of SunsTzu here.

Historically, there's no place for rookies on a contending team. If you're talking about next year only, it's hard to justify any player in the draft over Barbosa (other than possibly Brandon Roy).

Tell that to the Houston Rocckets with Sam Cassell, or the Bulls with BJ Armstrong, Scott Williams, and hell, even Stacey King, or the Pistons with Dennis Rodman (you did say contending team), or the Spurs with Manu.

That being said, I'm pretty against letting go of Barbs this year, especially if Marion's gone for some reason. We can't take ALL of our speed away and Barbs could be and should be our version of The Microwave.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The only way I see the Suns moving Barbosa is if the Bulls deal went down and wound up including Gordon. And at that point he only becomes expendable - not someone we need to dump.

 

[Cheesebeef]

exactly graham

 

[SunsTzu]

and too bad buckner is on the Nuggets roster.

Ha I forgot about that. I was just looking over to see what salaries they could match with since they're over the cap and I was actually wrong about Buckner's his would still be greater than %125 of Barbosa's.

Looking at it now it'd would probably have to be Burke and Barbosa for Ollie to match salarywise.

 

[F-Dog]

Tell that to the Houston Rocckets with Sam Cassell, or the Bulls with BJ Armstrong, Scott Williams, and hell, even Stacey King, or the Pistons with Dennis Rodman (you did say contending team), or the Spurs with Manu.

So, five or six in the last 20 years, then.

Cassell is an excellent counterexample, though.

 

[asudevil83]

Ha I forgot about that. I was just looking over to see what salaries they could match with since they're over the cap and I was actually wrong about Buckner's his would still be greater than %125 of Barbosa's.

Looking at it now it'd would probably have to be Burke and Barbosa for Ollie to match salarywise.

i actually had to point that out because i made the same mistake. i wanted to find Buckner's season stats, but he wasnt on the Philly roster on ESPN.

 

[jlove]

Show me one Suns scout that said there is anyone they're looking at that would be better next year than Barbosa. I've actually heard D'Antoni quoted as saying he plans on having Barbosa play a bigger role next year to take pressure off Nash. Do you think you know more than D'Antoni? Even this article doesn't say the Suns re intrested in moving LB, it says Philly wants him.

A 22-23 year old Nash only played 10mpg, 23 year old Barbosa was playing 34mpg in the WCF. I think I'll take Barbosa over some 10mpg rook for a title run. The idea of Nash winning an MVP was laughable 3 years ago, but he kept getting better. While Barbosa will likely never reach Nash's level he is improving.

Give me one good reason why the Suns should trade LB and the 27th pick for the 13 when the Suns could get a better pick for LB alone? Also it should be mentioned the only way the Suns could trade LB to the 76ers is if they took on Buckner's contract(who is making more and has 2 years left on his deal) to match.

Hmmmmm...lets look back at the roster and see why Nashty was only 10mpg shall we. Look at that, they had KJ and Kidd at PG, and Rex Chapman and Wesley Person at SG. Now you know why Nashty was only getting 10MPG.

 

[SunsTzu]

Hmmmmm...lets look back at the roster and see why Nashty was only 10mpg shall we. Look at that, they had KJ and Kidd at PG, and Rex Chapman and Wesley Person at SG. Now you know why Nashty was only getting 10MPG.

Would you rather compare Nash's 3rd year where he got over 30mpg? It wasn't until his 5th year he had a more productive year than the one Barbosa is coming off imo.

 

[jlove]

Would you rather compare Nash's 3rd year where he got over 30mpg? It wasn't until his 5th year he had a more productive year than the one Barbosa is coming off imo.

What I was getting at, was that you can't compare Nash to Barbosa, at anytime during their respective careers. Different circumstances, rosters and style of play. It's like trying to compare Stockton and Magic. Just can't be done.

 

[SunsTzu]

What I was getting at, was that you can't compare Nash to Barbosa, at anytime during their respective careers. Different circumstances, rosters and style of play. It's like trying to compare Stockton and Magic. Just can't be done.

Well you can't compare the 15th pick in one of the best and deepest drafts of all time to the 13th pick this year either. The only point I was trying to make is that getting a player that is going to help the Suns more than Barbosa is extremely unlikely.

 

[Goldfield]

well this is sounding like its going to get interesting.

a Realgm member just posted a rumor from WIP 610 (Philly Radio) that their are discussions of a:

Barbosa/#21/#27 for Dalambert/#13

now, those salaries dont match up at all, but maybe a Barbosa/KT for Dalambert/#13 would work.

I would do that trade... Otherwise Keep Barbs were making a run at it next year.

 

[Silverbullet]

Why not KT straight up for Dalambert. Philly is looking to unload him and his contract. While KT has only 2 years left that would help Phillys future cap problems and give us our center we have been looking for. I know we still would have Lux tax issues but Sammy would look awesome in a suns uni.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So, five or six in the last 20 years, then.

Cassell is an excellent counterexample, though.

oh yeah, also forgot Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Oliver Miller, Richard Dumas, Richard Jefferson, Robert Horry, Matt Maloney, Wes Person... so that brings the number up to around 14 in the last twenty years, and if you take Rodman out of the equation, it pretty much brings the number to 13 in the last 15 years. It's not as out of the ordinary as you make it seem it be, and those are just the guys off the top of my head.

 

[panfolk]

Anyone out there seen enough of Sefolosha to make an educated guess as to whether he'd be an impact player? On paper and in reports I'd say yes but I'm hoping some of the European posters have seen him in action. Anyhow, he would be my likely pick at 13 if they were looking for a rotation player, while Sene would be my project pick. I really think it's up to the individual and the ammount of experience they have as well as their willingness and ability to absorb good coaching. For these reasons I see Thabo as being in the positive column. By all descriptions he is an NBA prototypical SG, which would be another need opened up if they did trade Barbosa.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

This sounds like rumor garbage to me. I dont think The Suns are going to risk next season on a rookie making an impact. Rookies in general can be counted on as much as the democrats can count on the youth vote.

I am not personally impressed with Dalembert either, again center fever has struck a center to run the O through at all costs. Reminds me of all the posts calling for the Suns to aquire Dampier at all costs, how did that work out for Dallas? A frigen waste of money if you ask me.

 

[F-Dog]

oh yeah, also forgot...Oliver Miller, Richard Dumas, Wes Person...

How many years do you think the Suns were a contender?

Just for you, I went to database Basketball for a little research. On the championship-winning teams from the last twenty years, I could only find two rookies playing significant roles--Cassell and Manu Ginobili.

The other players you named were at least second-year players in the years their teams won championships.

 

[cly2tw]

Why not KT straight up for Dalambert. Philly is looking to unload him and his contract. While KT has only 2 years left that would help Phillys future cap problems and give us our center we have been looking for. I know we still would have Lux tax issues but Sammy would look awesome in a suns uni.

The insight is going around the league now, that whoever the Suns touch will be gold even if they were just garbage for other teams. This makes them in a better bargaining position than if they were to trade the same player to another team.

Dalembert, Chandler are all athletic big men whom the Suns' environment can work magic on. And from the Suns perspective, they are indeed willing to pay more than any other team would.

 

[George O'Brien]

I don't believe the Suns HAVE to do anything this summer with Barbosa. If they wait until next summer, the worst they are likely to face is a team offering a full MLE deal. If he does have a JJ type year, then his value in a sign and trade would be pretty strong.

I can't see how the Suns win by trading him now compared to sign and trade a year from now.

 

[cly2tw]

I don't believe the Suns HAVE to do anything this summer with Barbosa. If they wait until next summer, the worst they are likely to face is a team offering a full MLE deal. If he does have a JJ type year, then his value in a sign and trade would be pretty strong.

I can't see how the Suns win by trading him now compared to sign and trade a year from now.

Agree.
I'd just do the #13 for #21/27 swap and hope to draft Carney.

 

[pokerface]

Well you can't compare the 15th pick in one of the best and deepest drafts of all time to the 13th pick this year either. The only point I was trying to make is that getting a player that is going to help the Suns more than Barbosa is extremely unlikely.

Yeah I can compare because you dont know the future. Just because you THINK you know the strength of this draft doesnt mean you do. You talk like you're discussing a draft that happened five years ago and know the results already....not. About the 1996 draft, did you know THEN that it was "one of the best and deepest drafts of all time" or did that occur to you years later?

Bottomeline is in ANY draft you don't think you're getting a MVP player with a pick in the teens. If reports are true that the Suns are trying to move up in the draft there must be a reason....I dont think they're trying to move up just for the sake of moving up.

 

[George O'Brien]

I have no doubt that the late lottery guys are a lot better prospects than the guys at 21. However, that doesn't mean they're worth Leandro.

 

[SunsTzu]

Yeah I can compare because you dont know the future. Just because you THINK you know the strength of this draft doesnt mean you do. You talk like you're discussing a draft that happened five years ago and know the results already....not. About the 1996 draft, did you know THEN that it was "one of the best and deepest drafts of all time" or did that occur to you years later?

Bottomeline is in ANY draft you don't think you're getting a MVP player with a pick in the teens. If reports are true that the Suns are trying to move up in the draft there must be a reason....I dont think they're trying to move up just for the sake of moving up.

Yes the '96 draft was widley considered a pretty strong draft even then.


I may not be able to predict the future but I'd be willing to make a friendly wager that LB if healthy has a better year than anyone picked at 13 or later.
Even Cassell who was brought up as a rookie who had a major role on a championship team saw fewer than 20mpg and didn't have a real strong year for the most part.

You keep trying to imply that I think I know more than the scouts, yet again I have not seen one scout or Suns personel imply they expect someone to come in and produce more than LB, yet you seem to overlook the fact D'Antoni has said he plans on LB expanding his role next year.

You still haven't answered my question. The article says the 76ers are willing to trade the 13 pick for the 21 and 27 and that it is Philly that is pursuing Barbosa and not the Suns looking to ship him, so why do you have him going to Philly in the first place?

There has only been one MVP who has been picked in the teens and that was in a better deeper draft(yes I'm on record as saying there is no way this draft lives up to the '96 one).

 

[pokerface]

So I guees the 1995 draft where we got Finley in the 20's was another banner draft....In that actual draft we also had the #21 pick (a pick we also received from the Lakers) and 27th pick....We got Finley and Mario Bennet.