I wonder how Cassell would fit into the system considering his very bad back and his attitude. Finger-pointing after losses and trying to control things in the team too much are 2 very -ve attributes of Cassell's that make him undesirable to the team. The Suns thrive on teamwork and camraderie and he could potentially rupture the very fabric.TucsonDevil said:
Suns Offseason Trade Speculation Thread
- Thread starter MastersofCombat
- Start date
asudevil83
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2004
- Posts
- 2,061
- Reaction score
- 1
Nash said:
not to mention that he was already a Sun, and that didnt work out too wel. he hates us and we hate him. he's a perfect fit.
I won't be coming on much for a month, but I don't want any trades to happen. Just think about how freakin good this line-up can be.
I'd like to see a line-up similar to this:
Diaw/Kurt
Amare/Tim Thomas
Marion/James Jones
Bell/Barbosa
Nash/Speedy Claxton(FA signing)
They would dominate next year! Next offseason we can release salary, but that team can do really great things. Then we can have Tskitishvili, Burke, two rookies and some guy off the streets as our bench warmers. I'd love that team.
I'd like to see a line-up similar to this:
Diaw/Kurt
Amare/Tim Thomas
Marion/James Jones
Bell/Barbosa
Nash/Speedy Claxton(FA signing)
They would dominate next year! Next offseason we can release salary, but that team can do really great things. Then we can have Tskitishvili, Burke, two rookies and some guy off the streets as our bench warmers. I'd love that team.
BillsCarnage
ASFN Addict
asudevil83 said:
Dunno if that's true anymore. That was a different owner, coaching staff and players back then - sans Nash.
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 22,115
- Reaction score
- 6,551
Sometimes the best trades are seemingly small ones, for quality role players or young players with real potential.
KT is gone. If coach couldn't use him, even for 5 minutes, in this series, he's not in the plans. Our picks are expedable.
We have such short memories with Marion. He carried us on his back for parts of the Lakers and Clippers series. It was his O-rebound that saved us in the Lakers series. I can't see them dealing Marion.
House is gone. JR probably is. They will take TT back in a minute cause he is going to sign cheap.
KT is gone. If coach couldn't use him, even for 5 minutes, in this series, he's not in the plans. Our picks are expedable.
We have such short memories with Marion. He carried us on his back for parts of the Lakers and Clippers series. It was his O-rebound that saved us in the Lakers series. I can't see them dealing Marion.
House is gone. JR probably is. They will take TT back in a minute cause he is going to sign cheap.
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
I don't want any trades, but the AZ REP. had an article where Sarver was saying he didn't want to go into the luxury tax situation if he could help it. That means trying to get Barbosa, Diaw, and Tim Thomas cheap enough will be damn near impossible. To do that, someone, or someones will have to go. I'm going to be amazed if we keep Diaw, Barbosa, and Thomas this off season. At a minimum, I see the Suns having to let Thomas walk. I would be amazed if he took our MLE to play next year.
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
Heck, the Marbury trade is what started all this good play the last two years. At the time it looked horrible just to trade for cap space and losing Marbs. Now, it was an incredibly smart move.JCSunsfan said:
Evil Ash
Henchman Supreme
jandaman said:
Only Amare's extension takes effect next year. Diaw and LB's don't take effect until the year after
Yeah, what's our cap situation though? I don't understand why we'd be over the cap if:
Thomas comes back cheap
LB and Diaw's extensions don't start
Jones is signed for pretty cheap
Then our starting line-up and possible a FA pick-up...why are we over the cap?
Also, we have a 5 mil dollar exception or something don't we?
Thomas comes back cheap
LB and Diaw's extensions don't start
Jones is signed for pretty cheap
Then our starting line-up and possible a FA pick-up...why are we over the cap?
Also, we have a 5 mil dollar exception or something don't we?
Last edited:
elindholm
edited for content
Yeah, what's our cap situation though?
The Suns are already over the cap, like most NBA teams. The question is how close they are to the luxury tax line. This year, Stoudemire was still on his rookie deal, so he gets a huge pay raise starting in the fall. That, plus the guaranteed contracts to the two first-round picks the Suns presently have, is enough to raise their payroll by ~$10 million and put them close to the tax line. Signing Thomas to anything close to the MLE would most likely put them over.
(No one knows in advance where the luxury tax line will be or even if it will be in effect for a given year, but I believe the projected number for '06-'07 is something like $63 million. Someone can correct me on this, I'm sure.)
The Suns are already over the cap, like most NBA teams. The question is how close they are to the luxury tax line. This year, Stoudemire was still on his rookie deal, so he gets a huge pay raise starting in the fall. That, plus the guaranteed contracts to the two first-round picks the Suns presently have, is enough to raise their payroll by ~$10 million and put them close to the tax line. Signing Thomas to anything close to the MLE would most likely put them over.
(No one knows in advance where the luxury tax line will be or even if it will be in effect for a given year, but I believe the projected number for '06-'07 is something like $63 million. Someone can correct me on this, I'm sure.)
Evil Ash
Henchman Supreme
Nasser22 said:
We're over the cap and thus have the Mid Level Exception. The question is whether or not that Sarver is willing to go over the luxury tax which with Amare's contract extension going to effect, the Suns are at the luxury tax border.
The only way the Suns can add pieces is with the MLE (splitting amongst a few players or just giving it to one person), trade, or vet min contracts
George O'Brien
ASFN Icon
With TT I'm not sure the issue is mostly the yearly amount, but the length of the contract. Summer of 2008 the Suns will have need to make some moves. KT will come off contract and Marion will have an expiring contract. Setting TT to come off contract at the same time could make sense
TT couild get a longer contract now, but if he stays healthy he doesn't lose much on a two year MLE deal. Right now he's not likely to go for a team with much cap space. In two years, he'd have a chance at bigger deal on a sign and trade in 2008 which is not available to him now. In any case, he'd still be young enough to get a four or five year deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My thought would be a defense oriented starting lineup of Marion, KT, Stoudemeire, Bell, and Nash. TT comes in for either KT or Amare, Diaw for Nash, and Barbosa for either Bell or Marion (Bell sliding to SF).
I really like the idea of using TT along with Amare when the Suns go "small". This not only lets the Suns leave Marion at SF where he more effective, it means that the Suns have a much bigger guy to take on opponent's low post players so Amare can play weak side. TT is even more effective than Marion as PF in the small lineup on offense because he is a vastly better outside shooter and creates space.
At the same time, I think using Diaw as the PG (and not just point forward like they do now) would be a great change of pace for the Suns. Defensively he could create problems for shooters like Jason Terry due to his length and offensively he can post up almost every PG in the league. (If he can post up Diap, imagine what he'd do on Devin Harris). Even if they cut him off from the basket, he'd be able shoot over them. Clearly it would mean teaching Boris to be the trigger man on the pick and roll, but I'm confident he'd pick it up pretty quickly.
These two factors are related. The Suns need TT to release the time for Boris to play PG without having to rely on him to play 30 minutes in the post.
I would really like to see this lineup for a couple a years.
TT couild get a longer contract now, but if he stays healthy he doesn't lose much on a two year MLE deal. Right now he's not likely to go for a team with much cap space. In two years, he'd have a chance at bigger deal on a sign and trade in 2008 which is not available to him now. In any case, he'd still be young enough to get a four or five year deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My thought would be a defense oriented starting lineup of Marion, KT, Stoudemeire, Bell, and Nash. TT comes in for either KT or Amare, Diaw for Nash, and Barbosa for either Bell or Marion (Bell sliding to SF).
I really like the idea of using TT along with Amare when the Suns go "small". This not only lets the Suns leave Marion at SF where he more effective, it means that the Suns have a much bigger guy to take on opponent's low post players so Amare can play weak side. TT is even more effective than Marion as PF in the small lineup on offense because he is a vastly better outside shooter and creates space.
At the same time, I think using Diaw as the PG (and not just point forward like they do now) would be a great change of pace for the Suns. Defensively he could create problems for shooters like Jason Terry due to his length and offensively he can post up almost every PG in the league. (If he can post up Diap, imagine what he'd do on Devin Harris). Even if they cut him off from the basket, he'd be able shoot over them. Clearly it would mean teaching Boris to be the trigger man on the pick and roll, but I'm confident he'd pick it up pretty quickly.
These two factors are related. The Suns need TT to release the time for Boris to play PG without having to rely on him to play 30 minutes in the post.
I would really like to see this lineup for a couple a years.
Folster
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2005
- Posts
- 16,925
- Reaction score
- 7,559
Nash said:
His weakside defense would have really helped in the playoffs. No more easy lay-ups for the opposing team's guards. He'd have double figures in blocks for the first couple games. This team sorely needs a shotblocking presence.
Errntknght
Registered User
George, why would D'Antoni move one of the best triple-threat (shoot, drive or pass) forwards in the game away from the elbow? Diaw is already close to what Webber was at his best on the offensive end and he figures to improve a bit - I'm sure he'll extend his range every year for a few years, if nothing else. With Amare at the other elbow, even more lethal shooting and driving, Boris is going to draw the opponents second best big defender. In fact, few teams will have a second big who can defend him and they'll wind up using a smaller player who's not accustomed to defending in the low post, which is just where Diaw will go.
All the evidence points to Diaw liking to play the way he did this year, so I don't see him pleading for a chance to break his ankles defending smaller quicker players. He'll like it even better this year because opponents will be forced small more than ever and he won't have to bang as much.
It going to nice to have KT around to spell Amare and Diaw though it we re-sign TT, Kurt may play slender minutes. Yes, KT can defend the low post players but he allows the the opponents to put an LSB (large slow body) on the floor. He'll have to play some because otherwise Shawn will never have a pick set for him.
Dang, the double elbow setup with threats like Amare and Boris makes my head spin to think of all the plays you can work off that - and they don't have to be complex pre-planned plays either. The offense almost runs itself... its so easy even Barbs could do it. That empty low post area makes things so easy - suppose he drives right of Amare with the ball and turns the corner: if Amare's man cuts him off it's obvious so he lays it back to Amare; if Raja's man in the right corner cuts him off that's right in his field of view so he sees Raja is open; if the wing defender from the other side comes that's obvious too so James Jones is open in the other corner. Worst case he takes a pull up jumper from 16 feet.
How's this for a cool play, which would work once in while - Barbs passes to Diaw from high center the slices off Amare and curves toward the bucket his man trailing. Diaw takes one dribble toward the middle, freezing his man and Amare's then lobs a pass off the backboard to Barbs. The wing defender on the right is the only guy with a chance to stop it so Boris reads him and if he heads off Barbs, Boris takes another dribble and fires it to Raja in the corner. It almost sounds silly, I know, but the gain is that every time one of our guys slices off Amare the wing defender has to watch whats happening, just in case - opening himself to a backdoor baseline cut by Raja. Or Shawn/JJ/TT. Boris could probably do it with a floater pass but its so much more embarrassing for the other team if he banks it to him off the backboard.
All the evidence points to Diaw liking to play the way he did this year, so I don't see him pleading for a chance to break his ankles defending smaller quicker players. He'll like it even better this year because opponents will be forced small more than ever and he won't have to bang as much.
It going to nice to have KT around to spell Amare and Diaw though it we re-sign TT, Kurt may play slender minutes. Yes, KT can defend the low post players but he allows the the opponents to put an LSB (large slow body) on the floor. He'll have to play some because otherwise Shawn will never have a pick set for him.
Dang, the double elbow setup with threats like Amare and Boris makes my head spin to think of all the plays you can work off that - and they don't have to be complex pre-planned plays either. The offense almost runs itself... its so easy even Barbs could do it. That empty low post area makes things so easy - suppose he drives right of Amare with the ball and turns the corner: if Amare's man cuts him off it's obvious so he lays it back to Amare; if Raja's man in the right corner cuts him off that's right in his field of view so he sees Raja is open; if the wing defender from the other side comes that's obvious too so James Jones is open in the other corner. Worst case he takes a pull up jumper from 16 feet.
How's this for a cool play, which would work once in while - Barbs passes to Diaw from high center the slices off Amare and curves toward the bucket his man trailing. Diaw takes one dribble toward the middle, freezing his man and Amare's then lobs a pass off the backboard to Barbs. The wing defender on the right is the only guy with a chance to stop it so Boris reads him and if he heads off Barbs, Boris takes another dribble and fires it to Raja in the corner. It almost sounds silly, I know, but the gain is that every time one of our guys slices off Amare the wing defender has to watch whats happening, just in case - opening himself to a backdoor baseline cut by Raja. Or Shawn/JJ/TT. Boris could probably do it with a floater pass but its so much more embarrassing for the other team if he banks it to him off the backboard.
cly2tw
Registered User
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2002
- Posts
- 5,832
- Reaction score
- 0
Errntknght said:
I wonder what we need Marion for in this offense? Or what can he do better than most other SF like James Jones, Deng would, for much higher cap space?
nowagimp
Registered User
Sometimes to win a championship, you have to just play the cards you are dealt. Marion, while probably not worth 16 mil a year, can defend, and rebound much better than Deng or JR or any of the mid level players. Dont forget, when the suns have a defensive mismatch at guard, its usually marion who switches over to guard the Cassels, Terrys, Mobleys etc. Since the suns are weak at rebounding and all around defense, Marion fills several needs. Also, none of those guys can put the pressure on the defense with the fastbreak as well as shawn. Getting easy baskets is the suns strategy, whether they be open 3 pt shots, drives to the hoop or fastbreak points. Speed kills, and Marion -along with Barbosa- is that speed.cly2tw said:I wonder what we need Marion for in this offense? Or what can he do better than most other SF like James Jones, Deng would, for much higher cap space?
elindholm
edited for content
PHX/MIL/TOR proposal
Okay, this is the revised version:
Dime magazine floats a rumor this morning about Toronto's Villanueva and Morris Peterson going to the Bucks for Magloire and Maurice Williams. That inspired the following:
Phoenix gives up
Shawn Marion ($15.1 million next season, ending 2009)
#21 pick
Phoenix gets
Charlie Villanueva ($2.5, RFA 2009)
Joe Smith ($6.8, 2007)
Morris Peterson ($4.6, 2007)
Maurice Williams ($1.9, 2007)
Milwaukee gives up
Jamaal Magloire ($8.3, 2007)
Joe Smith
Maurice Williams
first-round pick in 2007
Milwaukee gets
Shawn Marion
Toronto gives up
Charlie Villanueva
Morris Peterson
Toronto gets
Jamaal Magloire
#21 pick
MIL first-round pick in 2007
This would have to take place after the draft, since Milwaukee can't trade their 2007 pick before then.
Basically this is Marion for Villanueva and expiring contracts. If the Suns wanted, they could re-sign Tim Thomas, since their salary crunch in the 2007-08 season has been dodged. Or, they could just let players fight for spots and see who fits in for the future; either Peterson or Williams seems to be a potentially good candidate for the long term. The rotation would be very deep, even without Thomas:
C – Diaw/K. Thomas
PF – Stoudemire/Smith
SF – Peterson/Villanueva
SG – Bell/Barbosa
PG – Nash/Williams
This doesn’t even include Jones (who could be moved in another deal), and of course almost everyone can play multiple positions.
Okay, this is the revised version:
Dime magazine floats a rumor this morning about Toronto's Villanueva and Morris Peterson going to the Bucks for Magloire and Maurice Williams. That inspired the following:
Phoenix gives up
Shawn Marion ($15.1 million next season, ending 2009)
#21 pick
Phoenix gets
Charlie Villanueva ($2.5, RFA 2009)
Joe Smith ($6.8, 2007)
Morris Peterson ($4.6, 2007)
Maurice Williams ($1.9, 2007)
Milwaukee gives up
Jamaal Magloire ($8.3, 2007)
Joe Smith
Maurice Williams
first-round pick in 2007
Milwaukee gets
Shawn Marion
Toronto gives up
Charlie Villanueva
Morris Peterson
Toronto gets
Jamaal Magloire
#21 pick
MIL first-round pick in 2007
This would have to take place after the draft, since Milwaukee can't trade their 2007 pick before then.
Basically this is Marion for Villanueva and expiring contracts. If the Suns wanted, they could re-sign Tim Thomas, since their salary crunch in the 2007-08 season has been dodged. Or, they could just let players fight for spots and see who fits in for the future; either Peterson or Williams seems to be a potentially good candidate for the long term. The rotation would be very deep, even without Thomas:
C – Diaw/K. Thomas
PF – Stoudemire/Smith
SF – Peterson/Villanueva
SG – Bell/Barbosa
PG – Nash/Williams
This doesn’t even include Jones (who could be moved in another deal), and of course almost everyone can play multiple positions.
Last edited:
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 22,115
- Reaction score
- 6,551
Until I word really starts to swirl in the media that Marion is on the block, I will not respond to any Marion trade rumors/proposals.
hcsilla
ASFN Lifer
I doubt that TOR would trade Villaneuva for two mid 1st rounders (since I think that Magloire's and Peterson's value are close to each other).
Could someone please give a link where Sarver stated that there is no way that he will pay the luxury tax?
Could someone please give a link where Sarver stated that there is no way that he will pay the luxury tax?
scoutmasterdave
Board Certified Suns Fan
I don't think Magliore and Peterson are anywhere close in value - Peterson is a halfway decent swingman, but Magliore is one of the better centers in the league. Good big men are always valued more than they're worth. I think that trade is pretty fair, though I think Milwaukee may be giving up a bit too much for Marion.hcsilla said:
Sarver never said he wouldn't pay the luxury tax - he only said it would be "tough" to pay it in a market like Phoenix. Twist that any way you like.
elindholm
edited for content
Toronto and Magloire have been trying to hook up for years. Peterson most likely will leave the Raptors next summer, whereas Magloire would be very likely to agree to an extension. Also, Toronto could then install Bosh permanently at PF and draft a scoring SF (for instance) with the #1 overall.
The trade proposal may have plenty of question marks, but I do think that Toronto would much rather have Magloire than Peterson.
The trade proposal may have plenty of question marks, but I do think that Toronto would much rather have Magloire than Peterson.
Last edited:
George O'Brien
ASFN Icon
It is not a terrible proposal, but I'm not sure there is enough there for Bucks to be interested.
