Suns to trade JJ for Boris Diaw and 2 future #1's

[Yuma]

Good decision.

Although I was a JJ fan he is absolutely not worth the money he is getting paid.

I have been wondering where in the hell you've been! I've been missing your takes on the Suns! Good to have you back!

 

[sly fly]

After processing this crap news in my mind for the last hour, I refuse to believe it. I won't believe it. Nobody can be this stupid.

I'll believe this when I see JJ holding up an Atlanta jersey posing for pictures.

Let's just hope Bobbi is reading this board and somehow comes to his senses.

 

[Maximus]

Wow. I don't like the move. But, I do think there is a silver lining here. I love how everybody is criticizing ownership here. People criticized signing Nash, and before that, people criticized letting Marbury go for crap. I'm not saying I would make this trade, but I'm going to wait and see before I jump on Sarver.

This happens to be a very opportune year in free agency, with the amnesty rule. Finley is definitely not JJ, but if the Suns traded JJ for Finley, Diaw, and 2 first rounders, and by doing so could free up some money to extend Amare...well, I think that lessens the pain a bit. In truth, this team was heading for cap hell, with their top 6 players nearly reaching the cap by themselves.

JJ was a fun player to watch. But, he had ONE good year and the rest he showed promise, but was inconsistent. Now, either a) he fixed his mental problem and all of a sudden started playing like an all star by himself, b) he was a product of a system that allowed him to put up his great stats, or c) he played like a lot of players do in contract years, only this time he had an extra chip on his shoulder and played pissed off the whole year. Two thirds of those options don't bode well long term for Phoenix if they have to pay him what he is getting from Atlanta.

Is there any doubt that if we sign Finley, that he will fit in? Finley is not inconsistent like JJ, rather he plays well no matter who is around him. We don't need Finley to be LeBron. He'd have a role, and he would know it, and play it very well.

And this frees us up to sign another big man (Hunter) who would most definitely not be back otherwise. If not Hunter, then another big guy.

The sky is not falling. With free agency, there are always options...as the Suns proved last year.

Maximus

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Good decision.

Although I was a JJ fan he is absolutely not worth the money he is getting paid.

We had this discussion weeks ago.

I have no problem letting JJ go, whom I believe will return to his career norms in shooting when he doesn't have open shot after open shot.

 

[Yuma]

Wow. I don't like the move. But, I do think there is a silver lining here. I love how everybody is criticizing ownership here. People criticized signing Nash, and before that, people criticized letting Marbury go for crap. I'm not saying I would make this trade, but I'm going to wait and see before I jump on Sarver.

This happens to be a very opportune year in free agency, with the amnesty rule. Finley is definitely not JJ, but if the Suns traded JJ for Finley, Diaw, and 2 first rounders, and by doing so could free up some money to extend Amare...well, I think that lessens the pain a bit. In truth, this team was heading for cap hell, with their top 6 players nearly reaching the cap by themselves.

JJ was a fun player to watch. But, he had ONE good year and the rest he showed promise, but was inconsistent. Now, either a) he fixed his mental problem and all of a sudden started playing like an all star by himself, b) he was a product of a system that allowed him to put up his great stats, or c) he played like a lot of players do in contract years, only this time he had an extra chip on his shoulder and played pissed off the whole year. Two thirds of those options don't bode well long term for Phoenix if they have to pay him what he is getting from Atlanta.

Is there any doubt that if we sign Finley, that he will fit in? Finley is not inconsistent like JJ, rather he plays well no matter who is around him. We don't need Finley to be LeBron. He'd have a role, and he would know it, and play it very well.

And this frees us up to sign another big man (Hunter) who would most definitely not be back otherwise. If not Hunter, then another big guy.

The sky is not falling. With free agency, there are always options...as the Suns proved last year.

Maximus

I am not putting all my eggs in the Finley basket, but we do have some more options now. Eventually we would have had to trade Amare or JJ. Noone would touch Nash's or Marion's contract in a trade. MAYBE Nash's. I think everyone is smoking some good stuff if they think anyone would touch Marion's salary for a non-goto guy. So the only real tradable high salaries would be Amare and JJ.

The only thing I could say is maybe it was worth the risk to sign JJ and then try and trade him to someone for different pieces. However, knowing the Suns would be coming up to cap hell, we may have ended up with even less than what we got with Atlanta.

 

[PakistaniRambo]

finley is extremely inconsistent..especially as of late. JJ was rock solid all year, and im not saying its not b/c of it being his contract year. And the past moves that we've made, like trading marbury, I have been for. But the thing is, those were times when the team wasnt going anywhere. We just played one of the best seasons in franchise history, and then they do this? Pretty messed up in my opinion. but of course my opinion could change if something transpires in the next week or so...here's hoping for the best

 

[Yuma]

AZCENTRAL.COM still has "JJ hints he'd like to stay with the Suns" article on their web site. How come they aren't all over this after ESPN reports a trade with the Suns? This seems weird...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Eventually we would have had to trade Amare or JJ. Noone would touch Nash's or Marion's contract in a trade. MAYBE Nash's. I think everyone is smoking some good stuff if they think anyone would touch Marion's salary for a non-goto guy. So the only real tradable high salaries would be Amare and JJ.
:

That is pretty off base Yuma

 

[Yuma]

That is pretty off base Yuma

Name another non-goto guy that makes as much as Marion. I love the guy. Met him. He was way cool to my kid. As a GM, would you trade for him, or any of the other guys in his price range? Guys that win games by taking them over in crunch time?

 

[Dustbuster]

The two draft picks aren't lottery protected for eternity. Maybe people should have a more "wait and see" approach until the details are fully out on the whole situation ... yeah I know crazy idea

There is a gaping hole in this argument. The Suns have effectively mortgaged all of their young players with the exception of Amare into win-now veteran players. By the time that the protection if off of those picks this present team will be past its prime. Nash is the motor that makes this vehicle go, but he is ageing. JJ was one of the players that would have helped us to win now but also have a future. If he's gone, you can add him to the list of under 26 players we have dealt away in the past year and a half: JJ, Q, CJ, Lampe, Vroman, Zarko, Hunter, not to mention the countless first round picks that we've traded away to get where we are. If there is a master plan, I have completely lost sight of it.

Hoopsworld is reporting that this present offer is what Atlanta has on the table to the Suns, so my one hope that this is correct and the counterproposal will be different...better.

The Suns really hold the cards here, because worst case scenario (best case to me) the Suns match and keep JJ. Lose one of the picks, give us Josh Smith with Diaw, along with the trade exception and this looks better. As it is, it is the type of deal we got for Marbury, except that we did that deal to shed Penny's salary (and Marbury's). There is no real motivation to do such a horrible except to save Sarver money. And I am desperately hoping that he is smarter than that, because if this happens as planned the Suns may just lose a lot of those new fans that they won. As it stands, our style of basketball has just drastically changed. We also will only have ONE proven distributer on our squad. Our ball movement really diminished with JJ out during the playoffs. Its not even so much the moments when Nash was out, but with JJ there with him it allowed the ball to move around much better. Often it was JJ that fed Q or Marion on the break for the three. Nash to JJ, JJ to the trailer. The fact is that Diaw is not proven, and probably won't be starting anyway, which defeats the purpose.

Oh, and what happened to keeping the core together? Or is that what you call trading two of your starting five?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Name another non-goto guy that makes as much as Marion. I love the guy. Met him. He was way cool to my kid. As a GM, would you trade for him, or any of the other guys in his price range? Guys that win games by taking them over in crunch time?

If the Suns wanted to move Marion to a team with lots of cap space for a second round pick they could. He is the perfect second fiddle. Most good teams have 2 max players, you have a goto guy for one and a guy like Marion for the second.

 

[Yuma]

There is a gaping hole in this argument. The Suns have effectively mortgaged all of their young players with the exception of Amare into win-now veteran players. By the time that the protection if off of those picks this present team will be past its prime. Nash is the motor that makes this vehicle go, but he is ageing. JJ was one of the players that would have helped us to win now but also have a future. If he's gone, you can add him to the list of under 26 players we have dealt away in the past year and a half: JJ, Q, CJ, Lampe, Vroman, Zarko, Hunter, not to mention the countless first round picks that we've traded away to get where we are. If there is a master plan, I have completely lost sight of it.

Hoopsworld is reporting that this present offer is what Atlanta has on the table to the Suns, so my one hope that this is correct and the counterproposal will be different...better.

The Suns really hold the cards here, because worst case scenario (best case to me) the Suns match and keep JJ. Lose one of the picks, give us Josh Smith with Diaw, along with the trade exception and this looks better. As it is, it is the type of deal we got for Marbury, except that we did that deal to shed Penny's salary (and Marbury's). There is no real motivation to do such a horrible except to save Sarver money. And I am desperately hoping that he is smarter than that, because if this happens as planned the Suns may just lose a lot of those new fans that they won. As it stands, our style of basketball has just drastically changed. We also will only have ONE proven distributer on our squad. Our ball movement really diminished with JJ out during the playoffs. Its not even so much the moments when Nash was out, but with JJ there with him it allowed the ball to move around much better. Often it was JJ that fed Q or Marion on the break for the three. Nash to JJ, JJ to the trailer. The fact is that Diaw is not proven, and probably won't be starting anyway, which defeats the purpose.

Oh, and what happened to keeping the core together? Or is that what you call trading two of your starting five?

My only hope with Diaw is that he's used to playing Euro ball like D'Antoni had the Suns playing. It's a big IF or hope, but maybe he fits better with us than Atlanta?

I don't see either of the Josh's coming here because Atlanta wants them WITH JJ. No way they give us either Josh. No way! They may give us an unconditional pick if we balk at the trade. My guess is the trade is already done. We own this one...

 

[Yuma]

If the Suns wanted to move Marion to a team with lots of cap space for a second round pick they could. He is the perfect second fiddle. Most good teams have 2 max players, you have a goto guy for one and a guy like Marion for the second.

First of all, that would be who, LA Clippers? No way we trade him to the Clippers. First of all they wouldn't pay a salary that high unless the guy was named Kobe Bryant. They are as cheap as everyone says Sarver is.

I really don't see anyone taking Marion at his salary. If you thought about it, you know there's no team out there that has the cap space and would fork over that kind of jack for a small forward who isn't a goto guy.

 

[Evil Ash]

There is a gaping hole in this argument. The Suns have effectively mortgaged all of their young players with the exception of Amare into win-now veteran players. By the time that the protection if off of those picks this present team will be past its prime. Nash is the motor that makes this vehicle go, but he is ageing. JJ was one of the players that would have helped us to win now but also have a future. If he's gone, you can add him to the list of under 26 players we have dealt away in the past year and a half: JJ, Q, CJ, Lampe, Vroman, Zarko, Hunter, not to mention the countless first round picks that we've traded away to get where we are. If there is a master plan, I have completely lost sight of it.

Hoopsworld is reporting that this present offer is what Atlanta has on the table to the Suns, so my one hope that this is correct and the counterproposal will be different...better.

The Suns really hold the cards here, because worst case scenario (best case to me) the Suns match and keep JJ. Lose one of the picks, give us Josh Smith with Diaw, along with the trade exception and this looks better. As it is, it is the type of deal we got for Marbury, except that we did that deal to shed Penny's salary (and Marbury's). There is no real motivation to do such a horrible except to save Sarver money. And I am desperately hoping that he is smarter than that, because if this happens as planned the Suns may just lose a lot of those new fans that they won. As it stands, our style of basketball has just drastically changed. We also will only have ONE proven distributer on our squad. Our ball movement really diminished with JJ out during the playoffs. Its not even so much the moments when Nash was out, but with JJ there with him it allowed the ball to move around much better. Often it was JJ that fed Q or Marion on the break for the three. Nash to JJ, JJ to the trailer. The fact is that Diaw is not proven, and probably won't be starting anyway, which defeats the purpose.

Oh, and what happened to keeping the core together? Or is that what you call trading two of your starting five?

Huh? I wasn't making a stand I was 1) stating a fact "the 2 first rounders are lottery protected for eternity" with the new CBA thats not even close to possible and 2) saying wait until DETAILS ARE KNOWN BEFORE WE GO INSANE FROM ANALYZING

We don't know how protected those picks are (just for this year and then become unprotected the year after for example) and we don't even know if this is the final trade. All we're doing is assuming at this point thats why bitching about Sarver being a cheap ass (other than letting out frustation) is pointless ... let the details come and then analyze it. Its common sense

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't see either of the Josh's coming here because Atlanta wants them WITH JJ. No way they give us either Josh. No way! They may give us an unconditional pick if we balk at the trade. My guess is the trade is already done. We own this one...

Shouldn't this speak to the value of JJ for Atlanta? Isn't JJ worth either Josh?

I suspect that Diaw may have more value to the Suns than the casual fan might suspect. It is my understanding the Suns have been high on Diaw for quite some time. Plus the Suns get the picks and the exception.

Honestly, I have not really concentrated on Diaw's game. Perhaps the Suns see something alot of us have missed.

 

[George O'Brien]

If the Suns initiated the trade discussion, we can assume the picks are badly protected. If the Hawks initiated the discussion, then possibly not so bad or for so long.

Initial reports are notably inaccurate. Remember on the Q deal when the inital reports were that the Suns would get the pick and later it turned out the Knicks would get the pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Finley is not inconsistent like JJ, rather he plays well no matter who is around him. We don't need Finley to be LeBron. He'd have a role, and he would know it, and play it very well.

you haven't watched much of finley lately have you? he's wildly inconsistent now. sheesh, just in the series against us he basically sucked except for one big game.

 

[Yuma]

If the Suns initiated the trade discussion, we can assume the picks are badly protected. If the Hawks initiated the discussion, then possibly not so bad or for so long.

Initial reports are notably inaccurate. Remember on the Q deal when the inital reports were that the Suns would get the pick and later it turned out the Knicks would get the pick.

Exactly, Tuesday we'll see what happens. Could be an interesting day....

 

[Yuma]

Shouldn't this speak to the value of JJ for Atlanta? Isn't JJ worth either Josh?

I suspect that Diaw may have more value to the Suns than the casual fan might suspect. It is my understanding the Suns have been high on Diaw for quite some time. Plus the Suns get the picks and the exception.

Honestly, I have not really concentrated on Diaw's game. Perhaps the Suns see something alot of us have missed.

Yeah but Atlanta holds the cards intially if JJ signs their offer. We have to have something to counter with to get more value. At the end of the day, JJ's offer is just probably too rich...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If the Suns initiated the trade discussion, we can assume the picks are badly protected. If the Hawks initiated the discussion, then possibly not so bad or for so long.

Initial reports are notably inaccurate. Remember on the Q deal when the inital reports were that the Suns would get the pick and later it turned out the Knicks would get the pick.

ever the eternal optimist, huh? from all recent evidence the suns will get screwed. what makes you think otherwise?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Honestly, I have not really concentrated on Diaw's game. Perhaps the Suns see something alot of us have missed.

what they see in diaw.....rookie contract.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I really don't see anyone taking Marion at his salary. If you thought about it, you know there's no team out there that has the cap space and would fork over that kind of jack for a small forward who isn't a goto guy.

NO probably would. With Paul pushing the ball, they could use a guy like Marion on a wing.

Shawn is pretty much worth his contract at this point. We wouldn't have a problem dumping him for nothing.

 

[az1965]

you haven't watched much of finley lately have you? he's wildly inconsistent now. sheesh, just in the series against us he basically sucked except for one big game.

Finley is too freaking inconsistent and past his prime...

 

[fordronken]

Okay. It took all day, but I have an opinion on this now, as far as how our team is headed from a basketball and financial standpoint, not regarding how this was handled or anything like that.

• It was just too ridiculous to have those four players under contract for that much money. We were going to have a five man team for the next 3 years, and probably end up trading one of them at the first sign of trouble.

• Championship teams of the 90s and 2000s are built around one amazing player, one great player and often a nice third wheel. The rest is about role players. The days are gone of four Hall-of-Famers in their prime with a couple more blossoming on the bench.

• The Suns have the reigning MVP, a bona fide playoff proven big-man superstar who hasn't hit his potential and an underrated 3rd team all-nba, one-hell-of-a-third-wheel. Add in better rebounding and defense and a deeper bench.

• Financial flexibility and draft picks to go after some young guys who you can afford to pay and will be able to be groomed for the future.

So, in the end, I'm in favor of it. It took me all day, and there's a lot wrong with it, but I'm for it. What did JJ give us? Decent defense and he really helped our offense. But if we fail to win a championship because we couldn't score enough points with Nash, Marion and Amare, then we stink anyway. If a title comes, it will come from improved rebounding and defense, and most of all, the dominance of Amare Stoudemire.

 

[cly2tw]

The one trade we should be doing now: Marion + picks for Pierce. A starting lineup Amare/KT/Pierce/Bell/Nash wouldn't have gone down the way the Suns did against the Spurs. This lineup has 3 1st-rate go-to players paired with two very good defenders. Pierce would have gotten Bowen and Manu in constant foul troubles while Bell would have limited Manu's effectivity on offense much better than Joe, Q, and Shawn managed.