Okobo and Melton are young and inexperienced. Canaan and Harrison are just plain bad.
Suns trying to be 3rd wheel in Butler trade to land Dragic
- Thread starter DevonCardsFan
- Start date
Okobo and Melton are young and inexperienced. Canaan and Harrison are just plain bad.
Disagree. Nothing new though.
Can't wait tell the first of Oct and the Suns play a preseason game. You can tell me how bad the Suns are then.
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 22,115
- Reaction score
- 6,551
Just repeating it over and over does not make it true. Canaan and Harrison might not be starting pg material yet, but they are far from bad.
Canaan I might be willing to say "not good". In Summer League, where good experienced prospects should be dominating, Harrison was just plain bad.
ColdPickleNachos
ASFN Lifer
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2016
- Posts
- 2,578
- Reaction score
- 1,659
I'm not saying Harrison is going to be good at the NBA level given big minutes, but he was excellent at Summer League.
He was third on the team in scoring. By far first in assists. By far first in steals. Third in rebounds. Tied for third in blocks. The team went 4-1 and he was an absolute force on defense, routinely shutting down the opposing point guard.
I'm not relying on stats here, either. I've been to 11 straight Summer Leagues, and I watched every second of the first three Suns games in person. He was a huge difference maker.
Of course, Reed was also excellent, and it doesn't mean Harrison is an answer at point guard, but I'll happily go on the record as strongly disagreeing with your Summer League assessment.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Just stop. Everything you say is irrelevant in 1Sun's world. Eye test, shmeye test!
To be honest (IMO) the PGs we have are not All Star material this season. Depends on how they fit into the new system. I guess Canaan can hold the starting job down and let the other guys fight for minutes.
We don't know how good Okobo and Melton can be until they've played 10-20 games. I hope for the best but I'm doubtful. They are 2nd round picks after all.
We don't know how good Okobo and Melton can be until they've played 10-20 games. I hope for the best but I'm doubtful. They are 2nd round picks after all.
At least we're not locked into any of our PG's longterm. All 4 are basically on league minimum contracts that the Suns could waive without issue if they so desired. I know we may get what we pay for but the upside is we're not paying much. If they outplay their contracts, and there is a good chance that at least one of them will, that's a plus.
I remember a few years back when we signed NBA castoff Ish Smith. He looked similar to Canaan in that he couldn't find a team to stick with. He ended up doing pretty well here and turning his career around. Since he left Phoenix he's signed a few good sized contracts that pay him a good bit more than we ever did. If Canaan can be the 2018-19 Ish Smith, I'd be happy with that. Ish Smith isn't an ideal PG to build your team around but he is the sort of PG that is on the level of a Patrick Beverly that may be available for cheap but only provides experience while showing the same amount of skill as what we currently have.
I remember a few years back when we signed NBA castoff Ish Smith. He looked similar to Canaan in that he couldn't find a team to stick with. He ended up doing pretty well here and turning his career around. Since he left Phoenix he's signed a few good sized contracts that pay him a good bit more than we ever did. If Canaan can be the 2018-19 Ish Smith, I'd be happy with that. Ish Smith isn't an ideal PG to build your team around but he is the sort of PG that is on the level of a Patrick Beverly that may be available for cheap but only provides experience while showing the same amount of skill as what we currently have.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,679
Harrison struggled trying to get the ball to Ayton but other than that, he played quite well IMO.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 119,253
- Reaction score
- 59,868
Bledsoe didn't want to be here. I'm so glad he is gone.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 119,253
- Reaction score
- 59,868
I thought Canaan looked good running the Suns last season. I guess the key is which PG is the best spreading the court and getting the ball to Ayton.
I don't think anyone believes Bledsoe played well but it's hard to give that label to someone who only played 3 games. I think you can find a 3 game stretch for all of our other PG's that look just as bad as Bledsoe's. I would have preferred we kept Bledsoe and played him until the trade was made instead of starting Mike James. He is/was probably my least favorite Suns player of all time and he was quite awful at covering the PG position. I can't believe he had the nerve to try and take shots at the Suns after the season was over also.
I don't remember the specifics of his comments but I know he complained that the Suns did not put him in a position to succeed. He also said that McD bashed him to other GM's around the league and tried to keep a few teams from signing him. He said that he learned that McD did that firsthand from other GM's around the league that he spoke to after he was waived by us. I like how he thinks a GM will betray the trust of another GM to tell a borderline G-League talent how the Suns didn't think he was a good player and not worth signing. We did waive him, so it's not hard to see we didn't think much of him. However for him to spin a tale like that is a bit too much.
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 22,115
- Reaction score
- 6,551
Mike James is one of those players you would like to buy for what they are worth, and sell for what they think they are worth.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
Mike James was not a fun experience.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
I actually feel the opposite. Canaan is really not a good player (he has had multiple stints in the NBA) but I feel like we’re only holding onto him because we feel bad about his horrific injury so it’s just letting him rehab.
I doubt he actually makes the roster.
Harrison has Patrick Beverly type potential. He’s supposedly changed his shot over the summe so if he can become at least a 35% shooter from 3 then that will be sufficient.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
That’s a big if.
Plus Harrison is still a historically bad passer with equally bad court vision and awareness offensively.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,679
I think you'd have a lot of trouble supporting this claim. For myself, I think it's an outrageous assertion. He struggles making the lob pass and his court vision is nothing to get excited about but I've seen historically bad passers and he's not close.
I don't think Harrison has played enough NBA basketball to say much about him in a historical manner. He's almost too young and too inexperienced to judge fully. Based on what I've seen I don't have much hope for him but I'd love to be wrong. I think he can be a backup or third string PG in the NBA over time and I hope he's able to step up and be that this season for the Suns but I don't know if he'll be able to take advantage of the opportunity that's in front of him. The PG competition appears wide open right now. I think if one of our guys doesn't run away with it and wins the starting job by a good margin then there will be a ton of pressure put on McD by Igor, the rest of the coaching staff, and the other Suns players to acquire a legit NBA PG to cover that position. We have a bunch of backups right now and one of them needs to display something that shows they're more than that.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,679
I have little hope that either of our veteran point guards can show they're fit for more than 2nd or 3rd string. Okobo or Melton might eventually surprise but there will likely be major bumps along the way.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
No doubt that Booker is, and will be, a team player. But he wants to be a star in the NBA which, first and foremost, depends upon scoring stats. No doubt that he is hell bent on making the All Star team this season.
Does anyone think that not relying on him to score as much will be acceptable to him? I wonder what kind of conversation is going on behind the scenes between McDonough and him about that.
Errntknght
Registered User
I would guess that right now Book is aware that his fortunes are tied to the team - for him to take another step upward the team needs to start winning - and he's indicated he sees that as a priority.
If he's as smart as I think he is, he knows that he cannot be seen as a weak defender to be considered an all star. At least an average defender. Now Igor can help him in that regard by the defensive assignments he gives him, and the way to please Igor is to buy into the overall scheme. Igor also needs to win and I can't imagine him not wanting Book to get lots of opportunities to score - and make plays. His offense seems to geared toward that so there is no reason for them to be butting heads over Booker's role.
If you look a little deeper things look bright for Devin. Igor's offense calls for a high pick and roll and with Ayton and Holmes we appear to have two good bigs doing their part. The passing to the roll man or pop man is going to be the challenge and Book figures to be as good at that as any of our PGs. He's also a better shooter than any of them. With Ayton he can go into a two man game - which is what Doncic did in the games I watched except Ayton is a much more versatile big to work with. The rest of the team has to be able to keep the floor spread and we should have enough shooters to do that.
If he's as smart as I think he is, he knows that he cannot be seen as a weak defender to be considered an all star. At least an average defender. Now Igor can help him in that regard by the defensive assignments he gives him, and the way to please Igor is to buy into the overall scheme. Igor also needs to win and I can't imagine him not wanting Book to get lots of opportunities to score - and make plays. His offense seems to geared toward that so there is no reason for them to be butting heads over Booker's role.
If you look a little deeper things look bright for Devin. Igor's offense calls for a high pick and roll and with Ayton and Holmes we appear to have two good bigs doing their part. The passing to the roll man or pop man is going to be the challenge and Book figures to be as good at that as any of our PGs. He's also a better shooter than any of them. With Ayton he can go into a two man game - which is what Doncic did in the games I watched except Ayton is a much more versatile big to work with. The rest of the team has to be able to keep the floor spread and we should have enough shooters to do that.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Regarding the power positions, I've been a Suns fan for almost all of their history and, yes, I've consistently hoped that we'd have rosters with the physical strength to become a legitimate deep-into-the-playoffs team along the way. Is there really anything wrong with that?You remove the word "point guard" from all of 1Sun's posts and replace it with "Center" or "Power Forward", and you have BC. Not that hard to make the connection.
And now, with our first #1 pick, and a Center at that, I would hate to see it wasted with the continuation of dysfunction at Point Guard. Everyone will be a distributor? And without one proven player to fill the smallest position which features good passing skills. Again I ask, is there really anything wrong with that?
As the Suns' second half-century begins, we're at at the dawning of a new era. The expectation of major steps forward looks good. I'd really like to see us get off on the right foot.
If your gripe with me is that I respond too often, yes, I know I've overdone it. But do any of you disagree with wanting to see us field a skilled and balanced roster? We're not there yet.
And, as Steve said, 1Sun and I are not the same person. We share the same opinion about, in this case, wanting to see skill and experience in distributing the basketball right from the start of Atyon's career.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 119,253
- Reaction score
- 59,868
@BC867
I have no problem with you wanting to find a starting caliber point guard but at what price and who?
I'm sure some team would cough up a PG if you overpay. The Suns reportedly got out of the Butler trade scenario as a facilitator because the price was too steep.
You have mentioned you are not paid to be the Suns GM but I'd like for you to play GM for a moment and pick out a point guard that may be available now and tell me how much you would be willing to give up.
I have no problem with you wanting to find a starting caliber point guard but at what price and who?
I'm sure some team would cough up a PG if you overpay. The Suns reportedly got out of the Butler trade scenario as a facilitator because the price was too steep.
You have mentioned you are not paid to be the Suns GM but I'd like for you to play GM for a moment and pick out a point guard that may be available now and tell me how much you would be willing to give up.
Similar threads
