takers for Bledsoe?

[Mainstreet]

Right, so the top 5 projected guys in the draft are definitely going to have the 5 best NBA careers....that NEVER happens.

If it's a deep draft then there's all-nba talent littered through it.

Very seldom does everyone in the top five projected players have the best NBA careers or stays healthy. Good players should drop if the Suns do not get a 1-5 pick.

However, the Suns have only won a couple of games so they may get there.

 

[Mainstreet]

My version of the tank then was trading vets. I never said sit someone in the beginning of the season. I thought it would be crazy to sit a player this early in the season...but then again they are sitting Bled already so anything is possible.

I still think you should be relieved as tank commander.

 

[BC867]

These last three pages are good, detailed discussions of the debate about tanking after eight non-playoff seasons.

And I guess we've all picked our side of the debate.

It will be interesting to see which side the Suns brass picks. And then to debate about who we think masterminded the decision.

Meanwhile, I believe a good barometer of the situation will be the ongoing attitude of Devin Booker. Watching his expressions when he is resting on the bench should tell the story.

 

[pokerface]

I still think you should be relieved as tank commander.

Yeah but there is always another one to take my place.


Besides, McD is the tanking president...I just serve under him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In a deep draft it means someone like a kawhi Leonard or antenkounmpo will be there at 12...if we have two picks, say 6 and 12 for example, we're effectively getting a 2fer chance (a really good one at that) at finding that guy.

I talked about a 2fer this year - say Dennis Smith or Jonathan Isaac and marrkannen - but decided that Jackson or Tatum were too much above the pack to warrant doing it.

I'd have no problem if we went that route in 2018.

Cmon this is akin to the “don’t take a QB high the first round because you can get a Tom Brady in the 6th round” argument. You’re hoping for a needle in a haystack. And if you were right that we had a “really good chance” of finding a Giannis or kawhi in the latter picks there would be a LOT more giannises and kawhis in the league, which there aren’t.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was thinking if we have three picks, say 10 (ours) 14 (Bledsoe proceeds) and 18 (Miami's) and we turn that into 6 and 12 (there's no science behind the numbers, just projecting based on the mechanics of the Chriss trade).




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I don’t think the 18th pick alone in this draft moves you up that far. And even if it moves you up to 6 you still miss out on the top five who are considered studs.

 

[Mainstreet]

These last three pages are good, detailed discussions of the debate about tanking after eight non-playoff seasons.

And I guess we've all picked our side of the debate.

It will be interesting to see which side the Suns brass picks. And then to debate about who we think masterminded the decision.

Meanwhile, I believe a good barometer of the situation will be the ongoing attitude of Devin Booker. Watching his expressions when he is resting on the bench should tell the story.

If the Suns trade Bledsoe for a player like Brogdon, I think it will be telling because he can add some wins to the Suns won/loss column.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the Suns trade Bledsoe for a player like Brogdon, I think it will be telling because he can add some wins to the Suns won/loss column.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think whatever trade they make, it will be for long term results. Short term results will be incidental.

I wonder if we all have different definitions of tanking. I do not want to lose on purpose. But I do not think that competing for a playoff spot should be the focus. I want our young players to focus on playing as well as possible in every game, focusing on the development as individuals and as a unit, and competing in every game. If they do that, I am happy. To me, that is not tanking. If they do that, I am not sure they will end up with a top five pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right, so the top 5 projected guys in the draft are definitely going to have the 5 best NBA careers....that NEVER happens.

If it's a deep draft then there's all-nba talent littered through it.


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You must be one of those guys that thinks all sports drafts and choosing investments is the equivalent to a blindfolded monkey throwing darts. The later picks are NOT as likely to hit big as the earlier. There’s a reason everyone wants higher picks instead of just any pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think whatever trade they make, it will be for long term results. Short term results will be incidental.

I wonder if we all have different definitions of tanking. I do not want to lose on purpose. But I do not think that competing for a playoff spot should be the focus. I want our young players to focus on playing as well as possible in every game, focusing on the development as individuals and as a unit, and competing in every game. If they do that, I am happy. To me, that is not tanking. If they do that, I am not sure they will end up with a top five pick.

Only saying, the Suns would probably be giving up on drafting a top 5 pick if they trade for Brogdon.

As long as the Suns play and develop their young players I'm happy.

 

[Mainstreet]

You must be one of those guys that thinks all sports drafts and choosing investments is the equivalent to a blindfolded monkey throwing darts. The later picks are NOT as likely to hit big as the earlier. There’s a reason everyone wants higher picks instead of just any pick.

I don't think he said anything like that. He is just saying there are good players beyond the top 5 picks.

 

[Phrazbit]

If we somehow won 35-40 games with 4 guys at approximately 20 years old playing huge roles then we don't need to sweat being pretty damn good in the near future.

 

[3rdside]

Cmon this is akin to the “don’t take a QB high the first round because you can get a Tom Brady in the 6th round” argument. You’re hoping for a needle in a haystack. And if you were right that we had a “really good chance” of finding a Giannis or kawhi in the latter picks there would be a LOT more giannises and kawhis in the league, which there aren’t.

I think you're missing the point a little - I was all for a tank but seeing what we've seen the last two games, we may actually have a half decent squad.

And if we do then the absolute necessity for a top 5 pick isn't as strong as if we're not; the upward turn of a rebuild has begun already so to speak, meaning we shouldn't need nor aim to bottom out again (very young guys winning now means they're only getting better with age) and our multiple draft picks only need to complement what we've got ... with a good chance (multiple picks, deep draft) that one of them becomes very good in his own right.

But if we suck by the all star break then by all means tank hard, it just seems a waste to blow a season up now, and all that brings with it, not least because of what happened this year and not getting a top 2 pick for Lonzo Ball, that of the four big guys at the top, one of them is surely a Michael Beasley or Greg Oden, and we have insurance in the form of multiple first rounders anyway.


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[3rdside]

I don’t think the 18th pick alone in this draft moves you up that far. And even if it moves you up to 6 you still miss out on the top five who are considered studs.

No but the 10th, 14th and 18th does give you leverage, and again, I guarantee you the top 5 picks won't be the best five players in the draft.


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[3rdside]

You must be one of those guys that thinks all sports drafts and choosing investments is the equivalent to a blindfolded monkey throwing darts. The later picks are NOT as likely to hit big as the earlier. There’s a reason everyone wants higher picks instead of just any pick.

You're really missing my point..


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[3rdside]

If we somehow won 35-40 games with 4 guys at approximately 20 years old playing huge roles then we don't need to sweat being pretty damn good in the near future.

Exactly.


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you're missing the point a little - I was all for a tank but seeing what we've seen the last two games, we may actually have a half decent squad.

And if we do then the absolute necessity for a top 5 pick isn't as strong as if we're not; the upward turn of a rebuild has begun already so to speak, meaning we shouldn't need nor aim to bottom out again (very young guys winning now means they're only getting better with age) and our multiple draft picks only need to complement what we've got ... with a good chance (multiple picks, deep draft) that one of them becomes very good in his own right.

But if we suck by the all star break then by all means tank hard, it just seems a waste to blow a season up now, and all that brings with it, not least because of what happened this year and not getting a top 2 pick for Lonzo Ball, that of the four big guys at the top, one of them is surely a Michael Beasley or Greg Oden, and we have insurance in the form of multiple first rounders anyway.


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Okay I can understand that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Only saying, the Suns would probably be giving up on drafting a top 5 pick if they trade for Brogdon.

As long as the Suns play and develop their young players I'm happy.

I am OK with this. I do not want them to hold back the play of the young players in any way just to improve their draft status. I don't want them to trade for vets to try to make the playoffs either.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think it comes down to how much protection is on the Denver pick. Anything #10 or less and I'd pull the trigger.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Minnesota process of rebuilding I think is the correct model. Stockpile talent. Then make the key trade or free agent signing to complete the roster.

With the addition of Butler, Minnesota is pretty much set now. The Suns will probably take that step in the summer of 2019. They will have enough cap space to sign at least one, maybe two FA's. They will have lots of young pieces to trade as well.

Looks like Porzingis is taking the text step. And the light has switched on for Aaron Gordon in Orlando. It seems that the key to drafting a superstar is finding a player with the talent and the will to improve. The latter seems harder to find.

 

[Hoop Head]

A lot of people are talking about how this draft is top heavy, with only the 5 guys at the top being worthwhile, franchise changing, All-Star potential, etc. However the college season hasn't started yet. When was the last time that the 5 players projected to go #1-5 a whole year in advance actually all panned out and went 1-5 in the following draft? Someone will fall off and more likely than that there will be a few players who step it up. The only thing I'm worried about this year is having a year like Hornacek's first year which would stick us drafting in the low to mid teens.

 

[pokerface]

I wonder if we all have different definitions of tanking. I do not want to lose on purpose. But I do not think that competing for a playoff spot should be the focus. I want our young players to focus on playing as well as possible in every game, focusing on the development as individuals and as a unit, and competing in every game. If they do that, I am happy. To me, that is not tanking. If they do that, I am not sure they will end up with a top five pick.

I'm glad you brought that up because there are different versions and levels on what tanking is. I would classify it as "hard tank" moves and "soft tank" moves.

I think the hardest tank move is benching a player. Plus the longer he's benched it increases the intensity....for blowback. To bench a good/great player not only ticks off the player but puts the spotlight on the team like "hey we are tanking".. potentially even getting the league involved although that rarely (if ever?) happens. It definitely draws fans ire to bench a player...but usually it's other teams fans that are mad. I think the suns screwed up by not trading Bled last year at the trade deadline. Maybe they weren't getting the right offers but they could have avoided that whole drama by just dealing him.

A soft tank is more common..and subtle. Trading a player or limiting his mpg...playing the young guys. All that 'could' be tank moves...depends on their line of thinking. The suns wanting to trade Chandler and Bledsoe could be tank moves but it also be them wanting to cash out on value before it goes down to zero (when their contracts are up). Or playing the young guys could be tanking and/or just developing them faster. One reason isn't exclusive of the other...they can intertwine.

 

[pokerface]

A lot of people are talking about how this draft is top heavy, with only the 5 guys at the top being worthwhile, franchise changing, All-Star potential, etc. However the college season hasn't started yet. When was the last time that the 5 players projected to go #1-5 a whole year in advance actually all panned out and went 1-5 in the following draft? Someone will fall off and more likely than that there will be a few players who step it up. The only thing I'm worried about this year is having a year like Hornacek's first year which would stick us drafting in the low to mid teens.

Yeah you are absolutely right..things could change as player rankings go but we are desperate. Our frontcourt needs help badly. There are no sure things except us never having a shot at Durant in free agency when he was available. Better to have some shot at stardom via the draft versus no shot at all in free agency

 

[sinsay]

Suns have a top SG prospect in Booker
Same with Jackson at SF
Trade Bledsoe and the Heats pick for Dennis Smith Jr now you have a young PG
Along with Chriss and Bender at PF
TJ Warren for buckets off the bench is a solid young core to build from.

Bring in Steve Nash to coach with an experienced staff and the suns could be contenders in 3 years. With young talent at the necessary positions to win games in the playoffs

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns have a top SG prospect in Booker
Same with Jackson at SF
Trade Bledsoe and the Heats pick for Dennis Smith Jr now you have a young PG
Along with Chriss and Bender at PF
TJ Warren for buckets off the bench is a solid young core to build from.

Bring in Steve Nash to coach with an experienced staff and the suns could be contenders in 3 years. With young talent at the necessary positions to win games in the playoffs

I don't think Dallas will part with Dennis Smith Jr. although I think you are on the right track.