Team USA - Shawn and Amare

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
90,254
Reaction score
65,436
mribnik said:
Actually it's from this thread, on page 5.

"Tonight's exhibition game against Puerto Rico, to be shown live on ESPN2 at 8, appears to be Stoudemire's final major test in his summer comeback program. It kicked into gear with his first five-on-five game five weeks ago and continued with lukewarm reviews at the Vegas Summer League and USA Basketball camp."

he's not playing:

"USA Basketball announced Stoudemire's departure hours before it played Puerto Rico in an exhibition game. The Phoenix Suns forward was to miss that game and return home to continue rehabbing his right knee and await the impending birth of a child."

not up to speed yet according to Yahoo. Good lord, I still can't believe they brought him back last year.
 

mribnik

Registered User
Joined
Apr 24, 2003
Posts
1,769
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego
cheesebeef said:
he's not playing:

"USA Basketball announced Stoudemire's departure hours before it played Puerto Rico in an exhibition game. The Phoenix Suns forward was to miss that game and return home to continue rehabbing his right knee and await the impending birth of a child."

not up to speed yet according to Yahoo. Good lord, I still can't believe they brought him back last year.

Oh bah, that sucks.
 
OP
OP
Chaplin

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,879
Reaction score
16,166
Location
Round Rock, TX
Joe Mama said:
How about the referees in Game 4 of the first round? Kurt Thomas might not have been missed as much in the Western Conference finals, but he's injury was huge in the first and second round. Like I said, they were lucky with the seeding because even at full strength not sure they could have gone to even Game 7 with San Antonio.

That's interesting, since popular opinion is that if we had Raja healthy, we would have been able to beat Dallas in the WCF. And Dallas beat San Antonio. And yet we couldn't beat San Antonio with a healthy Raja---AND a healthy Kurt Thomas? Where's the logic in that?
 
OP
OP
Chaplin

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,879
Reaction score
16,166
Location
Round Rock, TX
cheesebeef said:
he's not playing:

"USA Basketball announced Stoudemire's departure hours before it played Puerto Rico in an exhibition game. The Phoenix Suns forward was to miss that game and return home to continue rehabbing his right knee and await the impending birth of a child."

not up to speed yet according to Yahoo. Good lord, I still can't believe they brought him back last year.

Who's "they"? Stoudemire coming back was his decision, everyone else just let him, which they probably shouldn't have.
 

Kolo

Registered User
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Posts
3,820
Reaction score
0
Muggum said:
Everyone continues to blame Amare's lack of explosiveness on 1) his lack of muscle strength, and 2) his mental blocks. Everyone continues to say that medically, the knee is 100 percent.

But I'm inclined to believe that it's the knee, and not the brain or the quad muscles, that's the problem. Many players who suffered through microfracture surgery never made it back at all. I'm supposed to buy it's because they were simply afraid? Or because their quadriceps weren't strong enough? Amare's the most fearless guy I've ever seen. And guys like Jamal Mashburn, Andre Wadsworth, Mark Smith, Zach Randolph, etc... are/were warriors. And stronger than oxes, too.

Bottom line, this surgery is still relatively experimental, and all evidence points to the fact that while it can 'fix' knees, it also can damage them in some real, lasting way.

Guys face mental blocks and muscle strength issues coming off all sorts of surgeries. But microfracture alone is associated with various destroyed careers. The only surgery I can compare it to, in terms of its severity and dubious results, is the Tommy John baseball elbow surgery.

I'm so bummed. That doctor (quack?) said Amare would be back 100 percent. We're over a year out now. And Amare just got cut from the USA team, with not-so-promising quotes coming from Colangelo and others about his status.

Ugh.

Here is the most straightforward description of recovery period regarding microfracture I've seen, from the Nuggets team trainer, and not sugarcoated as to Kenyon Martin or microfracture in general--this should answer the questions about why the Suns said Amare would be playing again at 4 months, and why they now say he'll continue to improve.

Taking stock of K-Mart's health, head

By DAVE KRIEGER
Scripps Howard News Service
08-MAY-06

We may not know who's in charge of the Denver Nuggets, but we know the first thing on the agenda:

What to do about Kenyon Martin.

If the Nuggets try to dump K-Mart coming off his worst professional season and a season-ending suspension, they can expect to get back somebody else's problem(s).

This is like selling a stock at its 52-week low. It's not something you want to do, but, if you think it's going lower still, it can be something you have to do. If K-Mart is going to divide the locker room, as he did last season, he needs to go.

But if he's going to show up someplace else healthy and ready to play, it could be the classic buy-high, sell-low mistake.

There are two issues here: the state of K-Mart's troublesome left knee and the state of his head.

We'll get to his knee in a minute. Dr. Steve Traina, the Nuggets' orthopedic surgeon, agreed to discuss microfracture knee surgery with me so long as it wasn't about K-Mart's (or anyone else's) specific case. It helps to know what we're talking about here.

First, his head. The number of diagnoses floating around the Pepsi Center is remarkable. I will not repeat them because medical diagnoses from laypeople are worth less than the psychobabble talk shows that spawn them. Let's just say it seems to plenty of people that K-Mart is as much a victim of his violent mood swings as his teammates or coach.

When K-Mart is rational, he's one of the more objective players I've met. At the Nuggets practice the day before his Staples Center playoff meltdown, he sat on the hardwood discussing his knee and his season with disarming frankness. Yes, he had come back too soon. But he couldn't just sit there and watch. Couldn't do it.

This is the double edge of K-Mart's sword _ the competitiveness that toughens his team or loses it. When he called out Nets teammates for playing soft, it was the former. When he called his Nuggets teammates losers at halftime in L.A., it was the latter.

By the beginning of next season, K-Mart will be almost 18 months removed from his microfracture surgery. If you're not looking for miracles, this is when recovery becomes a realistic possibility.

The popular conception, thanks to examples such as Penny Hardaway and Allan Houston, is that microfracture surgery is the last resort for a knee that is basically shot. It is not. It is a response to a specific injury, a chip in the articular cartilage that protects the ends of the bones in the knee. Microfracture surgery consists of drilling holes in the exposed bone, which releases bone marrow cells, which forms a clot that can act as cartilage.

"You've heard about stem cells?" Traina said. "That's your inherent stem cells. We all have bone marrow cells which are what we call pluripotential cells, cells that can decide to become a skin cell, a kidney cell, a blood cell, a bone cell.

"So these stem cells because of the continuous passive motion machine protecting the knee for a period of time, form this fiber cartilage, which is a plug, which is better than having an area of exposed bone.

"What's happened, because of arthroscopy and MRIs, we've seen defects in the cartilage that we didn't know existed 25 years ago because we didn't do knee scopes. So it's not the last resort. It's been around a long time.

"Now, the problem with microfractures _ you get good and bad _ depends on the size of the lesion. The bigger the lesion, the less promising the result. Also, which complicates things, it depends on the alignment of the leg.

"So what are the factors? Where the lesion is, the size of the lesion, angular alignment of the leg and what they do. Obviously, an offensive lineman can play football after a microfracture much easier than a point guard who's got to run up and down the court, jump and all that," Traina said.

On the bright side, Jason Kidd is a point guard who's got to run up and down the court, jump and all that. He leading the Nets into the second round of the playoffs, 22 months after microfracture surgery.

K-Mart is now 12 months post-surgery. The normal recovery period?

"Twelve months to two years," Traina said. "Usually about 18 months. But you can let people back at the four-month, five-month mark, and they will continue to mature with time ...''

We don't know the size or location of K-Mart's lesion, but the Nuggets do, and former GM Kiki Vandeweghe told me team doctors were optimistic following the surgery a year ago.

While they are evaluating his condition 12 months later, they should also sit down with him for a frank conversation about his psychology.

The emotional reaction following his disappointing season, postseason meltdown and suspension is to dump him. But they say you should never sell a stock based on emotion, and the same is true of a $70 million investment, which is what K-Mart has left on his contract.

The state of his knee and the state of his head should determine whether he wears a Denver uniform again. Of course, before the Nuggets can make this decision, they'll need to decide who's in charge.
 

Skkorpion

Grey haired old Bird
LEGACY MEMBER
Supporting Member
Joined
May 9, 2002
Posts
11,026
Reaction score
5
Location
Sun City, AZ
cheesebeef said:
this is such stupid inflammatory crap - do you REALLY think there are Amare HATERS here? Good lord - the stupidity of such statements is beyond me. Just because people worry about a guy who's had a knee surgery that's CRUSHED careers and then had to have ANOTHER surgery on the opposite knee (and as far as the "he was overcompensating" reason for that, anyone know any other player who had micro-fracture then had knee surgery on the other one for "overcompensating") - doesn't make them haters. It makes them concerned and for good reason.

Thank you, cheese.
 

devilfan02

Registered
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Posts
3,399
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Not sure if anyones watching the USA vs Puerto Rico game but they just had Colangelo on at halftime. The last question the ESPN analysts asked Colangelo was whether or not Amare will be ready to start the season. He quickly answered " he will be able to start the season but we don't know what percentage he will be at. He is not close emotionally or physically and he a has a baby waiting to be born back home."

That was all he said and he didn't seem to want to talk about it much. Not reading into but this really really sucks
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
90,254
Reaction score
65,436
devilfan02 said:
Not sure if anyones watching the USA vs Puerto Rico game but they just had Colangelo on at halftime. The last question the ESPN analysts asked Colangelo was whether or not Amare will be ready to start the season. He quickly answered " he will be able to start the season but we don't know what percentage he will be at. He is not close emotionally or physically and he a has a baby waiting to be born back home."

That was all he said and he didn't seem to want to talk about it much. Not reading into but this really really sucks

damn, JC just flat out telling it like it is - not mincing words.
 

hsandhu

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
2,485
Reaction score
197
Damn, damn, damn. Anyone who's read my posts knows I'm definitely not a "sky is falling" poster in regards any slight negative news that comes out about the suns. In fact for the longest time I though Amare would be fine.

But let me now say if he gets back to the level he was before, and more so is able to become an all time great pf like we all expected after seeing the san antonio series I will be absolutely and utterly shocked. The words coming out from him and those in the organization, and especially the tone are just devastating.

My belief is he can still be a good to at times a very good SCORER in this league. With his improved ball handling, shooting, I think sometime in the future he'll adjust to his loss of explosiveness (something I'm not sure will ever come back to where it was, if it does at all...) to become a reliable scorer. He's defense will forever suck and his rebounding will also be poor. He can still be a borderline all-star player for the rest of his career( maybe not this year) but that's a long way from the player who was to be one of the greatest power forwards ever...
 

hsandhu

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
2,485
Reaction score
197
Oh, just to reinforce my statement that I'm not always looking at things in the worst light (or always best light for that matter), let me state right here diaw will be extened, don't even worry about it.

I said before the summer barbosa 5/30, diaw 5/49, I was pretty close on one, and will be on the second. The suns have till oct 31 to do it, their gonna take all the time they can to try and get the best deal they can (right now in the 45 million tayshaun prince range), but at the end of the day they will absolutely extend him. Mark my damn words.

I feel so strongly about this because Sarver values diaw in the long haul much more than marion, if he has to move marion the year after next to pay for diaw's contract he'll absolutely do it.
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
cheesebeef said:
damn, JC just flat out telling it like it is - not mincing words.
Yeah, he's really changed since he moved to Toronto. :rolleyes:

IMO JC is bitter because Amare waited until now to give him the "OK, I made my appearance, now I'm going home" speech. It's going to be slightly embarrassing when the U.S. team shows up in Japan with less than the full complement of players...
 
OP
OP
Chaplin

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,879
Reaction score
16,166
Location
Round Rock, TX
We're not even halfway through the offseason. Time is what is going to help Amare the most. Why not give it to him?
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
90,254
Reaction score
65,436
Chaplin said:
We're not even halfway through the offseason. Time is what is going to help Amare the most. Why not give it to him?

cause what the hell are we going to talk about then?
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
90,254
Reaction score
65,436
F-Dog said:
Yeah, he's really changed since he moved to Toronto. :rolleyes:

IMO JC is bitter because Amare waited until now to give him the "OK, I made my appearance, now I'm going home" speech. It's going to be slightly embarrassing when the U.S. team shows up in Japan with less than the full complement of players...

huh? Did i miss something. Did Jerry Colangelo move to Toronto?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Aamre was cut from the team according to every report - he didn't leave on his own volition.
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
cheesebeef said:
huh? Did i miss something. Did Jerry Colangelo move to Toronto?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Aamre was cut from the team according to every report - he didn't leave on his own volition.
I'm going to keep using that joke until I beat it to death. :D


They cut him from the team so he could be present at his child's birth? And now, they're leaving for Japan with 14 players even though there's room on the plane for 15?

I think they made it clear Amare wouldn't be in the top 12, and Amare made it clear that he had better things to do with his time than show up in Japan to offer his buddies moral support.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
90,254
Reaction score
65,436
F-Dog said:
I'm going to keep using that joke until I beat it to death. :D


They cut him from the team so he could be present at his child's birth? And now, they're leaving for Japan with 14 players even though there's room on the plane for 15?

I think they made it clear Amare wouldn't be in the top 12, and Amare made it clear that he had better things to do with his time than show up in Japan to offer his buddies moral support.

so, you think the notion of being on the road and not playing in games, but rather instead, being back somewhere where he could focus on his rehab wasn't the reason he was held back? Come on now.
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
cheesebeef said:
so, you think the notion of being on the road and not playing in games, but rather instead, being back somewhere where he could focus on his rehab wasn't the reason he was held back? Come on now.
If that was the reason, why didn't they keep Adam Morrison instead of Amare in the last cut? Were they trying to empty a seat on the plane for Coach K's ego?
 

myrondizzo

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Posts
1,031
Reaction score
3
Location
Mesa
F-Dog said:
If that was the reason, why didn't they keep Adam Morrison instead of Amare in the last cut? Were they trying to empty a seat on the plane for Coach K's ego?
they'd need two seats so expect lebron to be cut just before take off.;)
 
OP
OP
Chaplin

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,879
Reaction score
16,166
Location
Round Rock, TX
F-Dog said:
I'm going to keep using that joke until I beat it to death. :D


They cut him from the team so he could be present at his child's birth? And now, they're leaving for Japan with 14 players even though there's room on the plane for 15?

They have to cut the final 2 before going to Japan. I remember reading that 12 go on the plane, not 15. So whether they cut him today or tomorrow didn't matter. He was not going to Japan. We all knew it, Amare knew it, the coaches knew it. But getting these extra practices in against the best players in the world was integral to Amare's road to recovery.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
90,254
Reaction score
65,436
F-Dog said:
If that was the reason, why didn't they keep Adam Morrison instead of Amare in the last cut? Were they trying to empty a seat on the plane for Coach K's ego?

F-Dog - you do know they're only taking 12 guys with them, right?
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
"During the past few days of our training camp we concluded that it would be difficult for Amaré to continue with the rehabilitation he needs to do while the team continues its training in Asia. He is not quite where he needs to be and he needs to continue his work here in the States to get ready for the season. He is also expecting the birth of a child, so we decided it would be best if he returned home," said Colangelo.

Top 15 go to China and Korea for the tune-ups. I'm sure they'd find the last three a seat in the front row for the World Championships in Japan, too, don't you think?
 
OP
OP
Chaplin

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,879
Reaction score
16,166
Location
Round Rock, TX
F-Dog said:
Top 15 go to China and Korea for the tune-ups. I'm sure they'd find the last three a seat in the front row for the World Championships in Japan, too, don't you think?

Have you conveniently ignored everything else that has been said? The birth of his child, the rehab... Regardless if what I read was wrong (and I did read that they were only taking 12 to Japan), there was too much known about Amare NOT going to Japan. Why are you whining about it so much? This is the best scenario for him--certainly not taking a flight where he loses a ton of time, has to deal with jet lag, and then just as he's getting over it, he would have to come back to the US, and probably missing the birth of his child. That makes sense to you?
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
It absolutely makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is, why they didn't cut him when they cut down from 18 to 15, so they could take 15 committed players on the plane--as they claimed they wanted to from the start.

But of course, you already knew that, from my two previous posts on the subject.
 
Top