The Coronavirus and the NFL Thread - P&R Light

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sigh. What did you say about overstating positions?

What I said was there's no reason you can't play football safely with regular testing and some basic team rules. No partying, no mass gathering outside the team, etc etc

Saying that 72 players that got it outside of football while completely ignoring social distancing and going about their business normally is not a counter argument.

How many of those players died? How many even went to hospital? None.

There's been 3 pandemics in the last 100 years. No lockdowns, no cancelling sports.

In 1957-58 Avian Flu killed 1.1 million people worldwide when the world population was a 3rd of what it is now. Including 116,000 people in the USA when your population was 175m. And that virus killed younger people much more easily. A lot of those deaths were kids, pregnant women and under 50. Much more evenly spread than Covid across age groups.

Our grandparents didn't even blink. They just got on. And the death toll only stopped there because they got a vaccine quickly.

Then in '68 there was Hong Kong flu. 1 million worldwide and 100k in the US with a global population under half was it is now. Half those deaths were under 50. It was only limited because of some immunity rolled over from '57. No lockdown. No cancelling sports. The Packers won the superbowl. The Eagles starting running back lost 15lbs in a week shivering in bed. 5 Eagles players had it the same week and missed games. The only press coverage was a 65 word note by the AP.

4 New York Giants missed the whole of December with it. It didn't even make the news.

Lyndon Johnson had it. The Apollo 8 crew had it. Woodstock went ahead in the middle of all this going on. People just got on. No sports stars died despite the viruses much higher risk to that age group.

Now, I can feel you itching to type "but Covid is more deadly". Is it? The CDC says "The range of estimates put the fatality rate for those showing symptoms between 0.2%-1%, with a "best estimate" of 0.4%". And that's for those "showing symptoms". We now a large percentage are asymptomatic.

That's right there with the fatality rates on those two flu pandemics. And data gathering was infinitely poorer back then. Odds are many more died with it than recorded. And lets remember, both those pandemics killed FAR more children and people under 65 than Covid.

We have become soft as a species, especially in the west. We are pampered and coddled. Where our parents and grandparents would have handled this with a shrug and "get on with it" attitude we are cowering in our homes too scared to go out.

The only difference between those previous pandemics and now is the bombardment of information designed to keep you in your box. X amount tested positive today, X amount died yesterday.

It's as much a crisis of too much information and fear as it is of health.

Yes, Covid is deadly. But not nearly as much as the constant press fear mongering would suggest.
Yes, people should be cautious and sensible.

And at the same time,

Many are overreacting.
Overreacting and cancelling everything can kill as many people (if not more) that just getting on.
Stopping living isn't a solution.

Let's be more like those previous generations that had grit and got on, and not the embarrassment of spineless, pampered, cowards we seem to have become.

Yes let’s be braver and cause more people to die for . . . sports. You’re lack of empathy for your fellow man is appalling.

 

[GuernseyCard]

You think lockdown is the answer? Literally half of America is proving that shutting down isn't the answer and that soon as you open back up it starts again. The press were writing in April about how well California handled it and got ahead of the curve. Look at them now.

So are all the countries that had hard, early lockdowns that only delayed things until they opened up again.

All lockdown does is kill your economy and kill more people in the long run.

Bizarre!

What we have actually learned is that a phased re-opening with social distancing and masks flattens the curve, lowers the number of cases and allows a proper balancing of health and economic concerns.

State of Washington (pop. 7.5m)
July 18: total cases: 46,946 - deaths: 1447 (3.1%)
* cases on the rise.

Neighbouring Province of British Columbia (pop. 5.5M)
July 18: total cases: 3,198 - deaths: 189 (15 in July and 0 in last week)

COVID-19 in BC was imported from Washington state. They closed the border and implemented a three-phase approach to dealing with pandemic.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I have renamed this the Coronavirus and the NFL thread. Please put all COVID discussion as it relates to the NFL in here. Obviously this will have light P&R but there will be zero tolerance for ad hominem attacks.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You know that antibodies aren't the only immune defense right? And that we all have immune responses to hundred of diseases without anti bodies being detectable in your blood?

This is just more fear mongering nonsense when it's clear from actual facts that nobody in the world has been infected twice with Covid.

The virus has been around at least 8 months. You would think of immunity only lasted 2 weeks at least 1 person would have been reinfected. If immunity only lasted 2 weeks (or 2 months) we would see tens of thousands of reinfections by now.

So no, there's absolutely no evidence herd immunity isn't the answer.

I just read an article last week about a guy who got infected twice. He got it in March and at the end of June.

 

[TaylorSwift]

From an Easterner's perspective - the 800 lb gorilla lies in the scary numbers coming out of the state of Arizona compared to the general US population.

Stats and Epidemiology guys - Anyone know whether the bad statewide stats are likely to be replicated in teamwide incidences of infection, fatalities etc. or whether numbers inside the bubble are likely to run independent of trends observed in the general population?

Its going to be a 1600 lb gorilla once flu season hits

 

[Ronin]

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[Timm Rosenbach]

Sigh. What did you say about overstating positions?

What I said was there's no reason you can't play football safely with regular testing and some basic team rules. No partying, no mass gathering outside the team, etc etc

Saying that 72 players that got it outside of football while completely ignoring social distancing and going about their business normally is not a counter argument.

How many of those players died? How many even went to hospital? None.

There's been 3 pandemics in the last 100 years. No lockdowns, no cancelling sports.

In 1957-58 Avian Flu killed 1.1 million people worldwide when the world population was a 3rd of what it is now. Including 116,000 people in the USA when your population was 175m. And that virus killed younger people much more easily. A lot of those deaths were kids, pregnant women and under 50. Much more evenly spread than Covid across age groups.

Our grandparents didn't even blink. They just got on. And the death toll only stopped there because they got a vaccine quickly.

Then in '68 there was Hong Kong flu. 1 million worldwide and 100k in the US with a global population under half was it is now. Half those deaths were under 50. It was only limited because of some immunity rolled over from '57. No lockdown. No cancelling sports. The Packers won the superbowl. The Eagles starting running back lost 15lbs in a week shivering in bed. 5 Eagles players had it the same week and missed games. The only press coverage was a 65 word note by the AP.

4 New York Giants missed the whole of December with it. It didn't even make the news.

Lyndon Johnson had it. The Apollo 8 crew had it. Woodstock went ahead in the middle of all this going on. People just got on. No sports stars died despite the viruses much higher risk to that age group.

Now, I can feel you itching to type "but Covid is more deadly". Is it? The CDC says "The range of estimates put the fatality rate for those showing symptoms between 0.2%-1%, with a "best estimate" of 0.4%". And that's for those "showing symptoms". We now a large percentage are asymptomatic.

That's right there with the fatality rates on those two flu pandemics. And data gathering was infinitely poorer back then. Odds are many more died with it than recorded. And lets remember, both those pandemics killed FAR more children and people under 65 than Covid.

We have become soft as a species, especially in the west. We are pampered and coddled. Where our parents and grandparents would have handled this with a shrug and "get on with it" attitude we are cowering in our homes too scared to go out.

The only difference between those previous pandemics and now is the bombardment of information designed to keep you in your box. X amount tested positive today, X amount died yesterday.

It's as much a crisis of too much information and fear as it is of health.

Yes, Covid is deadly. But not nearly as much as the constant press fear mongering would suggest.
Yes, people should be cautious and sensible.

And at the same time,

Many are overreacting.
Overreacting and cancelling everything can kill as many people (if not more) that just getting on.
Stopping living isn't a solution.

Let's be more like those previous generations that had grit and got on, and not the embarrassment of spineless, pampered, cowards we seem to have become.

we have become a nation of cowards.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Its going to be a 1600 lb gorilla once flu season hits

Why do you say that? It is continuing during summer so we don’t know that it is seasonal

 

[Jetstream Green]

I’m not saying the players opinion matters to them. I’m saying the players haven’t heard jack squat about what protections are being taken. That doesn’t strike you as odd? The NBA came out with their covid plan a month weeks before players were supposed to report back to camp. The NFL is coming back within a week or two and the players are in the dark.

If you don’t think that’s a little weird, well, that’s a little weird.

Not telling the players though is not the same as not having a plan which I was addressing, but you are correct thinking that is not proper protocol when the players are being in harm's way. That is being not just weird, that is being cold and heartless to their employees, but they probably thought in their ivory towers they did not want any scrutiny of their said plan... which is typical of people who think they are above others which they really think they are lol

 

[GuernseyCard]

we have become a nation of cowards.

A virus makes no distinction between the self-anointed brave or cowards, but it will have an easier time finding and infecting the stupid.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

For those of us who actually want football in Arizona this year, it looks like we are flattening the curve. Perhaps we can get the Cards season and a territorial cup game.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/arizona

 

[Ronin]

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[Dback Jon]

For those of us who actually want football in Arizona this year, it looks like we are flattening the curve. Perhaps we can get the Cards season and a territorial cup game.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/arizona

Let's see what happens after the weekend is over (Today's numbers are really Sunday's)


Hopefully this is a good sign - and due to the closing of bars, and mask mandates. We need to get mask compliance MUCH higher, and statewide.

Either that or ban inter-county travel.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we have become a nation of cowards.

says the guy who probably supports the gassing of Moms last night by the government.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Let's see what happens after the weekend is over (Today's numbers are really Sunday's)


Hopefully this is a good sign - and due to the closing of bars, and mask mandates. We need to get mask compliance MUCH higher, and statewide.

Either that or ban inter-county travel.

I saw 2 people at Whole Foods where my parents go not wearing masks and smiling and wanted to scream in their face. So we agree politically for the first time. People need to wear masks

 

[Dback Jon]

I saw 2 people at Whole Foods where my parents go not wearing masks and smiling and wanted to scream in their face. So we agree politically for the first time. People need to wear masks

It is something simple that helps

 

[MadCardDisease]

Why do you say that? It is continuing during summer so we don’t know that it is seasonal

COVID definitely doesn't appear to be seasonal as it just blasted through summer, but I don't think that is what he was saying with regard to Flu season.

Many experts fear that Flu season will hit with COVID still going strong and that will put additional burden on the already stressed out health care system. It all depends on how bad the Flu strain is this year. There is also the possibility of Coinfections, having the Flu and COVID at the same time which would suck.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

COVID definitely doesn't appear to be seasonal as it just blasted through summer, but I don't think that is what he was saying with regard to Flu season.

Many experts fear that Flu season will hit with COVID still going strong and that will put additional burden on the already stressed out health care system. It all depends on how bad the Flu strain is this year. There is also the possibility of Coinfections, having the Flu and COVID at the same time which would suck.

Gotcha. Thank Goodness hospitalizations are going down in Arizona slowly but surely. People need to get their elective surgeries now. Either way, lets play some football. With or without fans. Hopefully the college players get some form of a game as well as an extra year of eligibility

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Cheese and Timm get 1 week breaks.

 

[BritCard]

As per usual you overstate your case and fail to understand that this is a "novel" virus and more and more information and analysis is needed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

I overstated my case? You implied antibodies only last a short while and that reinfection is possible within a short period. THAT is overstating your case. What was the point of your original post other than to suggest immunity is short lived?

I simply corrected you and provided evidence to the contrary. there is a tonne of scientific research, most recently by the Karolinska institute, that T cells play a more prominent role against Covid. Even your own article link says that.

 

[BritCard]

Yes let’s be braver and cause more people to die for . . . sports. You’re lack of empathy for your fellow man is appalling.

The fact that you read that and came away with this proves my point.

Did you miss the part where I said we should be cautious? But there's a big difference between caution and abject fear. What we are is a generation of people that have been pampered their whole lives telling everyone else how they should behave because they are terrified. Something that has never happened before in the history of pandemics. This pandemic is no worse than any other. In fact previous pandemics have killed children and younger adults just as readily as the elderly. Covid doesn't. Yet we are the only civilization ever that wants to lock ourselves away and stop doing anything until the virus vanishes.

This is a virus that kills predominantly old and ill people. 95%+ of cases have comorbidity issues (Alzheimers, cancer, lung disease etc) and 90% of deaths globally have been over 65. Although the USA is an outlier because there is so much obesity.

Be cautious. Wear masks. Social distance. Wash your hands. Don't gather in groups. But otherwise get on with life.

This hysterical "cancel everything and all hide away until nobody dies" rhetoric is not the answer.

 

[BritCard]

Bizarre!

What we have actually learned is that a phased re-opening with social distancing and masks flattens the curve, lowers the number of cases and allows a proper balancing of health and economic concerns.

State of Washington (pop. 7.5m)
July 18: total cases: 46,946 - deaths: 1447 (3.1%)
* cases on the rise.

Neighbouring Province of British Columbia (pop. 5.5M)
July 18: total cases: 3,198 - deaths: 189 (15 in July and 0 in last week)

COVID-19 in BC was imported from Washington state. They closed the border and implemented a three-phase approach to dealing with pandemic.

No, not bizarre.

What an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

British Columbia has a population density of less than 5 people per square KM. Washington has a density 10x greater.

Canada has a whole has a low population, low density and low cases overall with only 8500 deaths in a 37m population.

It's apples and oranges and has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

Now look at the states in the USA that had low Covid infections and deaths early on, and thus little natural immunity and look again when they started easing restrictions.

Then look at Hong Kong, South Africa and similar countries that lockdown early and hard which resulted in very few deaths and cases. As soon as they eased lockdowns it shot up again.

There are exceptions to every rule, but largely countries with low deaths originally are seeing big upticks with easings.

 

[BritCard]

says the guy who probably supports the gassing of Moms last night by the government.

What?

 

[GuernseyCard]

No, not bizarre.

What an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

British Columbia has a population density of less than 5 people per square KM. Washington has a density 10x greater.

Canada has a whole has a low population, low density and low cases overall with only 8500 deaths in a 37m population.

It's apples and oranges and has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

Now look at the states in the USA that had low Covid infections and deaths early on, and thus little natural immunity and look again when they started easing restrictions.

Then look at Hong Kong, South Africa and similar countries that lockdown early and hard which resulted in very few deaths and cases. As soon as they eased lockdowns it shot up again.

There are exceptions to every rule, but largely countries with low deaths originally are seeing big upticks with easings.

???

Ridiculous is either not knowing or deliberately misrepresenting Canada's population distribution.

The population of BC is largely concentrated in the lower mainland (greater Vancouver) near the Washington State border. Compare greater Vancouver to greater Seattle.

And 75%+ of the Canadian population lives less than 100 miles from the US border.

Greater Toronto is over 6m residents; greater Montreal over 4m.

And your suggestion of herd immunity is simply untrue at this point.

Try harder.

 

[Ronin]

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