The Official US Soccer thread

[cardfaninfl]

My sons new coach had each of the players on his new team pick 3 World Cup teams out of the hat. His job is to follow the teams he picked and if one of his teams wins he gets a World Cup Soccer Ball signed by everyone on his team. I think it's a great way to get the kids exciteb about World Cup Soccer. It has me excited as well.

Totally stealing this idea.

 

[Milgod]

Ther US are not a top 20-25 Team I think, probably around 30.

Germany, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Italy, France, England, Belgium, Switzerland, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Croatia, Bosnia, Ivory Coast, Columbia, Serbia

That is 18 that are clearly better, the USA is in the next tier with a bunch of others, hard to say who is better..

Japan, Cameroon, South Korea, Greece, Mexico, USA, Poland, Ukraine, Denmark, Turkey, Ghana, Sweden, Austria, Egypt, Montenegro, Nigeria, Czech

Tell us more o wise one.

You basically just made my point for me by the way.

Although I'd move Bosnia, Serbia, Switzerland, Croatia and Ivory Coast into the too close to call group. Mexico clearly are not as good.

 

[Milgod]

You are probably correct. Again I have never followed the sport before and to be honest, mocked the sport in the past out of my own ignorance. So it's probably unfair for me to say they suck when I may only have seen them play once in my lifetime and for the rest I'm just going off second hand info.

However as I mentioned before my 7 year old son is really into soccer. Believe it or not I even helped coach his team one season. So I kind of have a new and fresh view on the sport. This will be the first time that I actively sit down and watch the World Cup on purpose.

My sons new coach had each of the players on his new team pick 3 World Cup teams out of the hat. His job is to follow the teams he picked and if one of his teams wins he gets a World Cup Soccer Ball signed by everyone on his team. I think it's a great way to get the kids excited about World Cup Soccer. It has me excited as well.

Yeah, sweepstakes are always fun. Pretty much everywhere here does a sweepstake for the WC.

I coached my daughter's team this year too. Happy to say they're now the Cambridgeshire U11 girls champions. So rewarding watching your kids have fun as well as keeping fit. A problem in the UK with rising obesity.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Even if your best athletes choose soccer first you would not stand a chance.

1. the sport is way more skill based and stamina based, raw athleticism is relatively useless

2. the US development system, youth setup and college is horrid compared to european pro clubs where kids start at a young age and go to a club funded school that is focused on education while also training every day.

3. You don't have the coaching expertise and know-how to develop these players

I don't think these is a single knowledgable person who thinks the USA can win in 2014 or 2018 or 2022 for that matter.

Klinsmann openly saying this is just to prepare for the media when the USA drop out after the group stages which is likely.

Yawn. You must like to hear yourself talk.

 

[slinslin]

Tell us more o wise one.

You basically just made my point for me by the way.

Although I'd move Bosnia, Serbia, Switzerland, Croatia and Ivory Coast into the too close to call group. Mexico clearly are not as good.

I don't think you know how good Switerland or Croatia are compared to the USA.

Croatia market value 193.250.000 ranked #11
Switerland market value 178.000.000 ranked #15
Serbia market value 161.000.000 ranked #16
Ivory Coast market value 121.700.000 ranked #20
Bosnia market value 114.950.000 ranked #24
USA market value value 57.800.000 ranked #44

Bet you that is just "hating" on the USA as well.
http://www.transfermarkt.com/statistik/weltrangliste?ajax=yw1&sort=marktwert_gesamt.desc

Switzerland has 8 players that are each rated at least 10.000.000+ , Shaqiri and Rodriguez 20.000.000+ . Switzerland has players on Bayern Munich, Juventus, Napoli, Wolfsburg (and Rodriguez is chased by Real Madrid and so on).

The USA highest rated player is 7.000.000 Clint Dempsey and that is it. Only 3 players rated over 5.000.000

Truth is if the USA had to compete in the UEFA qualification or COMMEBOL they very very likely would never qualify for the World Cup. It is widely accepted that the European Cup is harder to win than the World Cup because competition is harder. There are no small teams like in the World Cup.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't think you know how good Switerland or Croatia are compared to the USA.

Croatia market value 193.250.000 ranked #11
Switerland market value 178.000.000 ranked #15
Serbia market value 161.000.000 ranked #16
Ivory Coast market value 121.700.000 ranked #20
Bosnia market value 114.950.000 ranked #24
USA market value value 57.800.000 ranked #44

Bet you that is just "hating" on the USA as well.
http://www.transfermarkt.com/statistik/weltrangliste?ajax=yw1&sort=marktwert_gesamt.desc

What is a Market Value?

 

[slinslin]

What is a Market Value?

The combined value of all the players on your roster on the club transfer market.

The values are set by a committee based on actual confirmed transfer fees and wages, confirmed offers and to a lesser degree performance.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The combined value of all the players on your roster on the club transfer market.

The values are set by a committee based on actual confirmed transfer fees and wages, confirmed offers and to a lesser degree performance.

So it's basically the combined salary of the players on the team? I assume it's the salarys they make from their professional teams then?

How much do players make for playing on thier World Cup team? Or do they even get paid?

 

[slinslin]

So it's basically the combined salary of the players on the team? I assume it's the salarys they make from their professional teams then?

No.

For example if Ozil was rated or estimated around 15-20M$ when Real Madrid bought him. Since then he was raised several times due to good performances, scoring statistics, personal success and so on.
Arsenal bought him for 50M Euros so his market value was set to 50M because that is what the market paid for him.

They also factor in how long his contract runs and what salary he makes. For example if a team pays 50M despite the players just having 1 year on his contract, then the market value would be set higher than 50M.

Basically the market value is the estrimated price a player would cost on the transfer market. The better the player the more expensive.

The USA team is comparable in market value to Werder Bremen or Hertha Berlin.

 

[Milgod]

The combined value of all the players on your roster on the club transfer market.

The values are set by a committee based on actual confirmed transfer fees and wages, confirmed offers and to a lesser degree performance.

No no no no no no no no no. Just no.

Please don't tell me you tried to pass that site off as a reasonable source. Some of the fees are an absolute joke.

Not that that has anything to do with anything. We're talking about being a good team, not how much a dodgy site says a team costs.

Croatia qualified in second place by beating up on very weak teams. Switzerland won an even easier group. I watch football son. You try and act like some European super pundit on here because you reckon people on the site won't question you. You end up looking silly.

 

[MadCardDisease]

No.

For example if Ozil was rated or estimated around 15-20M$ when Real Madrid bought him.
Since then he was raised several times due to good performances, scoring statistics, personal success and so on.
Arsenal bought him for 50M Euros so his market value was set to 50M because that is what the market paid for him.

They also factor in how long his contract runs and what salary he makes. For example if a team pays 50M despite the players just having 1 year on his contract, then the market value would be set higher than 50M.

Basically the market value is the estrimated price a player would cost on the transfer market. The better the player the more expensive.

The USA team is comparable in market value to Werder Bremen or Hertha Berlin.

So a teams market value would be like saying the Redskins are #1 because they bought up all of the best players in Free Agency?

 

[slinslin]

No no no no no no no no no. Just no.

Please don't tell me you tried to pass that site off as a reasonable source. Some of the fees are an absolute joke.

Not that that has anything to do with anything. We're talking about being a good team, not how much a dodgy site says a team costs.

Croatia qualified in second place by beating up on very weak teams. Switzerland won an even easier group. I watch football son. You try and act like some European super pundit on here because you reckon people on the site won't question you. You end up looking silly.

That site is the most respected football source on that matter in europe SON.

 

[Milgod]

In fact. Just a quick example. My team -Leeds - have quite a few dodgy rankings on there.

Ross McCormack is worth a lot more than just over £2m. While we would be able to get any money for Brown or Hunt. The site reckons Noel Hunt is worth £600,000. Luke Barney and Matt Smith are listed as the same value. One is an aging former nobody who was just released. The other is a young guy with potential who had a pretty good year.

 

[slinslin]

No no no no no no no no no. Just no.

Please don't tell me you tried to pass that site off as a reasonable source. Some of the fees are an absolute joke.

Not that that has anything to do with anything. We're talking about being a good team, not how much a dodgy site says a team costs.

Croatia qualified in second place by beating up on very weak teams. Switzerland won an even easier group. I watch football son. You try and act like some European super pundit on here because you reckon people on the site won't question you. You end up looking silly.

And if the USA was in one of those groups they would be considered one of the weaks teams others feast on.

The US team has not even a single player on a decent club team.

Switzerland has legitimate star players in Shaqiri (Bayern - possibly going to Liverpool , Rodriguez (Wolfsburg - eventually going to Bayern, Barca, Real, City or Chelsea), Xhaka (Gladbach - rumored to go to Inter) and so on..

and lets not even begin with Croatia (Rakitic - Barca, Modric - Real Madrid, Mandzukic - Bayern, Kovacic - Inter)...

 

[slinslin]

In fact. Just a quick example. My team -Leeds - have quite a few dodgy rankings on there.

Ross McCormack is worth a lot more than just over £2m. While we would be able to get any money for Brown or Hunt. The site reckons Noel Hunt is worth £600,000. Luke Barney and Matt Smith are listed as the same value. One is an aging former nobody who was just released. The other is a young guy with potential who had a pretty good year.

Leeds is not a first division team, their players are not exposed to transfer market much.

How would Ross McCormack be worth more than 2.700.000. Dude transfered to Leeds for 2.000.000. He is a 27 year old 2nd dvision player for a bad 2nd division team. I'd say his market value is pretty fair, not dodgy at all.

There is no way he would generate considerably more than that, maybe 4M if Leeds was lucky.

Talents are always undervalued there because there is no legitimate way to rate what a 18 year old who just came out of the youth ranks is realistically worth until someone offers to buy him for X.

 

[Milgod]

That site is the most respected football source on that matter in europe SON.

No it isn't. It's not seen as any more than a fun site to check player details. I've never met one person who goes by that site as an evidence base. The fact that you use it really shows your ignorance.

Manchester United have a more valuable squad than City?

Instead of actually discussing football like a fan you throw a site link at me. Football isn't measurable like some sports.

 

[MadCardDisease]

In fact. Just a quick example. My team -Leeds - have quite a few dodgy rankings on there.

Ross McCormack is worth a lot more than just over £2m. While we would be able to get any money for Brown or Hunt. The site reckons Noel Hunt is worth £600,000. Luke Barney and Matt Smith are listed as the same value. One is an aging former nobody who was just released. The other is a young guy with potential who had a pretty good year.

So that site just ranks based off of a players individual perceived value. So like when the Cardinals signed Kevin Kolb to a huge contract, he would have been highly ranked because of his new monitary value even though he hadn't proven much up to that point.

It really has nothing to do with how a team plays as a whole then?

 

[Milgod]

Leeds is not a first division team, their players are not exposed to transfer market much.

How would Ross McCormack be worth more than 2.700.000. Dude transfered to Leeds for 2.000.000. He is a 27 year old 2nd dvision player. I'd say his market value is pretty fair, not dodgy at all.

You mean the same player who had bids of £4.5m from Prem teams turned down in January. That Ross? Good god you have no knowledge of the English game. The same Ross that scored nearly 30 goals on a crap team.

 

[Milgod]

So that site just ranks based off of a players individual perceived value. So like when the Cardinals signed Kevin Kolb to a huge contract, he would have been highly ranked because of his new monitary value even though he hadn't proven much up to that point.

It really has nothing to do with how a team plays as a whole then?

The Kolb example is pretty good yeah.

 

[slinslin]

You mean the same player who had bids of £4.5m from Prem teams turned down in January. That Ross? Good god you have no knowledge of the English game. The same Ross that scored nearly 30 goals on a crap team.

on a crap team in a crap division

Nils Petersen also scored nearly 30 goals in 2nd division in Germany which is considered the strongest 2nd division in Europe, he is 3 years younger than Ross and has moved from Bayern to Bremen in the meantime and plays first division and is rated 4.500.000. So I'd say Ross is in line with that.
Also he is not a regular for Scotland and the players infront of him are rated barely higher.

If the offers for Ross McCormack are confirmed than he will likely be uprated after the world cup.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The Kolb example is pretty good yeah.

So what is the Transfer Market? Do teams own the rights to a player or is it like a Free Agent market where players can pick any team that they choose? Are the US clubs part of this Transfer Market?

Sorry for all of my stupid questions as this is all new to me.

 

[slinslin]

So what is the Transfer Market? Do teams own the rights to a player or is it like a Free Agent market where players can pick any team that they choose? Are the US clubs part of this Transfer Market?

Sorry for all of my stupid questions as this is all new to me.

Yes.

If Club A has a contract with a player for 5 more years and Club B wants to buy him than that is called a transfer and the buying club B has to pay A an appropriate sum, the negotiated asking price of Club A.

eg Real Madrid paid 95.000.000 Euros to buy Christiano Ronaldo from Manchester United. In addition to that they gave Ronaldo a multi-year contract that pays him upwards of 10.000.000 anually after taxes.

US Clubs are part of that. Though most players they sign seem to be out of contract and thus free transfers.

 

[Milgod]

And if the USA was in one of those groups they would be considered one of the weaks teams others feast on.

The US team has not even a single player on a decent club team.

Switzerland has legitimate star players in Shaqiri (Bayern - possibly going to Liverpool , Rodriguez (Wolfsburg - eventually going to Bayern, Barca, Real, City or Chelsea), Xhaka (Gladbach - rumored to go to Inter) and so on..

and lets not even begin with Croatia (Rakitic - Barca, Modric - Real Madrid, Mandzukic - Bayern, Kovacic - Inter)...

You're still just throwing players out there. The fact is they had easy groups and didn't impress. I'm not saying they're bad teams, just around the same level as the US. If you want to say the US don't have players on decent teams that's your choice. Bradley and Dempsey just left 'decent' teams out of their own choosing.

What is it about Croatia and Switzerland's recent performances that make you rate them so highly?

 

[MadCardDisease]

eg Real Madrid paid 95.000.000 Euros to buy Christiano Ronaldo from Manchester United. In addition to that they gave Ronaldo a multi-year contract that pays him upwards of 10.000.000 anually after taxes.

Thanks

So Manchester United basically just "Cashed Out" on Ronlaldo? They got nothing but money in return?

 

[slinslin]

You're still just throwing players out there. The fact is they had easy groups and didn't impress. I'm not saying they're bad teams, just around the same level as the US. If you want to say the US don't have players on decent teams that's your choice. Bradley and Dempsey just left 'decent' teams out of their own choosing.

What is it about Croatia and Switzerland's recent performances that make you rate them so highly?

Switzerland is the last team that beat Spain in a competition for example?

They also beat Brazil this season.