The Perfect Storm

[Solar7]

He’s a great dude from personal experience. My boys play in flag football league. One of them caught a TD from Leinart during summer camp when he was 6. He was also an incredibly fragile ego as a QB. And in the end not dedicated enough to his craft. Ironically he ended up being everything that you’re worried kyler will be but taller.

1. Played with a supremely talented team. 2. Didn’t lose much and didn’t know how he’s deal with adversity.
3. Not champing at the bit to get to the NFL.
4. Not dedicated to his craft.

And yet you still support Leinart more than Murray.

Many props for the personal experience part. I don't like anyone calling a "great dude" a bitch. I think we all have different management styles - some function under encouragement, some under being told you're not good enough, and a wide gamut of other challenges. In business, you get a reasonable chance to build your team. In the NFL, you sometimes inherit things.

I'll argue the last three points - and throw in #1 casually - no one before him or around him replicated that success with that talent, although Reggie Bush is in the argument for best college player of all time.

2. Leinart lost some games, including the biggest of his career, against Vince Young. Matt came in and beat out Matt Cassel, took the job, and didn't look back. I'm warming to Kyler, but he lost and ran.

3. I'll never argue that spending an extra year in college to get laid and be worshipped is a bad thing. I mean, in terms of "what did it do for the NFL?" Not good. He would have been a 49er, and made a lot of money. But man, personally, I'd rather be USC's Heisman winning QB in the prime of my life than go to the NFL and be hounded by media and coaches when my head isn't buried in the playbook.

4. See above.

I've given Kyler a hard time for his dedication, maybe unjustly, and from what I've seen, probably unjustly. Down the line I still have concerns. Can Kingsbury provide the kind of environment for Kyler Murray to succeed? Let's hope he gets a better shot than Matt.

I'm pretty sure I know Solar's response:

Leinart wasn't a one year wonder like Murray and was a beast for 3 straight seasons in college, won two national titles which Murray didn't, overall giving him a better body of work to get excited about when he was drafted.

I think I gave Kyler a fair run of it here, but I think Matt was mismanaged, and I'm hella biased.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Apparently my old post didn't actually go through, so let me rewrite. I think Leinart got to nail it with the celebrity of being USC's QB, but was a good guy overall, just embracing what it was like to be that age around that time. He didn't do anything particularly bad, and I think if he had a "rah rah" coach in the NFL like Pete Carroll (or even Denny Green), he would have been amazing. His confidence got shattered by Whisenhunt, who wanted a hard-nosed, more quiet guy, not a Hollywood QB with confidence.

I don't think Leinart was bad/soft/fragile, I think he was mismanaged, and consistently challenged instead of supported. I think if Whiz had worked with him instead of looking for a new personality to develop, he'd have succeeded.

But the honest truth of it all is that I'm probably Matt Leinart's biggest supporter that isn't him or Nick Lachey. He's a good dude from personal experience.

In my heart of hearts, I believe Leinart had enough physical and mental talent to be a great NFL QB. For a while, he flashed that talent for us. I think he set the rookie record for passing yards in a game vs. MIN.

Durability, both physical and mental, ended up being his downfall.

Work ethic? We'll never truly know. You kind of get the feeling he didn't want it very much, but it's hard to say. Meh. All water under the bridge now.

 

[dscher]

It has zero to do with Murray. Seeing Leinart sell his buddies out on punked predraft said exactly who he was at his core. His talent was def there. Unfortunately, his heart wasn’t.

He has also admitted as such. Young and Leinart were great examples that you need to have extreme passion at that position.

 

[NJCardFan]

Apparently my old post didn't actually go through, so let me rewrite. I think Leinart got to nail it with the celebrity of being USC's QB, but was a good guy overall, just embracing what it was like to be that age around that time. He didn't do anything particularly bad, and I think if he had a "rah rah" coach in the NFL like Pete Carroll (or even Denny Green), he would have been amazing. His confidence got shattered by Whisenhunt, who wanted a hard-nosed, more quiet guy, not a Hollywood QB with confidence.

I don't think Leinart was bad/soft/fragile, I think he was mismanaged, and consistently challenged instead of supported. I think if Whiz had worked with him instead of looking for a new personality to develop, he'd have succeeded.

But the honest truth of it all is that I'm probably Matt Leinart's biggest supporter that isn't him or Nick Lachey. He's a good dude from personal experience.

He was fragile. Every time he was given the opportunity to start, he had a season ending injury.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Many props for the personal experience part. I don't like anyone calling a "great dude" a bitch. I think we all have different management styles - some function under encouragement, some under being told you're not good enough, and a wide gamut of other challenges. In business, you get a reasonable chance to build your team. In the NFL, you sometimes inherit things.

I'll argue the last three points - and throw in #1 casually - no one before him or around him replicated that success with that talent, although Reggie Bush is in the argument for best college player of all time.

2. Leinart lost some games, including the biggest of his career, against Vince Young. Matt came in and beat out Matt Cassel, took the job, and didn't look back. I'm warming to Kyler, but he lost and ran.

3. I'll never argue that spending an extra year in college to get laid and be worshipped is a bad thing. I mean, in terms of "what did it do for the NFL?" Not good. He would have been a 49er, and made a lot of money. But man, personally, I'd rather be USC's Heisman winning QB in the prime of my life than go to the NFL and be hounded by media and coaches when my head isn't buried in the playbook.

4. See above.

I've given Kyler a hard time for his dedication, maybe unjustly, and from what I've seen, probably unjustly. Down the line I still have concerns. Can Kingsbury provide the kind of environment for Kyler Murray to succeed? Let's hope he gets a better shot than Matt.


I think I gave Kyler a fair run of it here, but I think Matt was mismanaged, and I'm hella biased.

I think the narrative about Leinart is fairly true, but I think a factor you are missing is that he also wasn't the same after that collarbone injury.

He came back and was captain checkdown after that. He just didn't look like he was brave enough to stand in the pocket and take a big hit to complete a big throw. Any time any defender was within a second of hitting him, he would get rid of the ball. The flipside for Cardinals fans was Palmer who took too many big hits a probably should have checked down more.