The Phx Suns have a real center

[BC867]

Is Gortat realistically part of the "big 3" of a championship caliber team?

I don't think so--unless he starts having games like last night consistently. I am not getting my hopes up about that ...

... Having a real, starting caliber center on the Suns is a welcome piece though.

I think you answered your own question.

Using your phrases, being "part of the big 3 championship caliber" and producing "consistently" come with being a "real, starting caliber center". Both physically and emotionally.

Until he is moved into the starting unit alongside Nash, why would you not get your hopes up?

It's up to the Suns to do what any manager is getting paid to do -- make it as easy as possible for their people to do the job right.

And now that we have a real, starting caliber center (as you said), it's our job as fans to get our hopes up, rather than pre-determining "I don't think so."

'Nothing personal, but jeez, don't give up on it before it even begins.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think you answered your own question.

Using your phrases, being "part of the big 3 championship caliber" and producing "consistently" come with being a "real, starting caliber center". Both physically and emotionally.

Until he is moved into the starting unit alongside Nash, why would you not get your hopes up?

It's up to the Suns to do what any manager is getting paid to do -- make it as easy as possible for their people to do the job right.

And now that we have a real, starting caliber center (as you said), it's our job as fans to get our hopes up, rather than pre-determining "I don't think so."

'Nothing personal, but jeez, don't give up on it before it even begins.

Not giving up, just taking one step at a time. I am certain that he will start eventually. Gentry has a reason why Gortat is not in the starting line up right now. It could be that Gortat is still learning the offense, or that they want to keep Lopez on the floor moving toward the trade deadline. Whatever the reason, Gortat isn't going anywhere and will be the starter soon.

 

[Chaplin]

It's simple Gortat>Lopez, start the best player that gives you the best chance to win.

No, you PLAY the best player that gives you the best chance to win. We all know from experience that for the Suns, games aren't won in the first 5 minutes.

I'd MUCH rather have Lopez pick up a few quick fouls when the game first starts than Gortat. You run the risk of him not being able to be on the floor in the 4th quarter.

 

[desertdawg]

No, you PLAY the best player that gives you the best chance to win. We all know from experience that for the Suns, games aren't won in the first 5 minutes.

I'd MUCH rather have Lopez pick up a few quick fouls when the game first starts than Gortat. You run the risk of him not being able to be on the floor in the 4th quarter.

Gortat is the best player (at center) and he does give us the best chance to win. Talking about Lopez and fouls is just grasping at straws, floppin Robin is no reason to not start a guy who can pull down 17 boards after only being with the team a short while.

Gortat isn't going to foul out a bunch of games , and he wanted to come here so he wouldn't be behind Howard anymore. Damn sure wouldn't want to be behind Lopez and his two rebounds or fluke fouls on Shaq.

I bet you a dollar Gortat starts with in the next 5 games. (This wager does show my faith in Gentry)

 

[Mainstreet]

Not giving up, just taking one step at a time. I am certain that he will start eventually. Gentry has a reason why Gortat is not in the starting line up right now. It could be that Gortat is still learning the offense, or that they want to keep Lopez on the floor moving toward the trade deadline. Whatever the reason, Gortat isn't going anywhere and will be the starter soon.

I agree. I don't know why some posters are hung-up on who starts. It's the minutes that counts. Gortat plays with both the first and second unit players while he is on the court. I too believe Gentry is starting Lopez for a reason. IMO, Gentry knows chemistry and he is trying hard to develop it and the players at the same time.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree. I don't know why some posters are hung-up on who starts. It's the minutes that counts. Gortat plays with both the first and second unit players while he is on the court. I too believe Gentry is starting Lopez for a reason. IMO, Gentry knows chemistry and he is trying hard to develop it and the players at the same time.

Exactly. People are borderline relying on Gortat starting to save our season. It's ridiculous.

Again, it doesn't matter who starts, it's who finishes that matters. Gortat may start, who knows? I just don't think it's as big a deal as some people apparently do.

 

[desertdawg]

Exactly. People are borderline relying on Gortat starting to save our season. It's ridiculous.

Again, it doesn't matter who starts, it's who finishes that matters. Gortat may start, who knows? I just don't think it's as big a deal as some people apparently do.

I don't think Gortat will save the season, I am extremely happy with how he played last night and I hope it continues. It's ok to have a good center, it might be scarey at first, I know it's unheard of in Phx, I was born here. Your right, it doesn't matter who starts the next game, it just matters that Gortat can go beast mode...hooray!
Come on, you gotta give some up some love for the Polish Hammer.

I'm just a happy camper I guess, this is really good for the Suns.

 

[Covert Rain]

Again, name me one team that benefits from starting an inferior center over one that should be starting?

I agree that whomever finishes is important. However, Lopez plays most of the 1st quarter with Nash. By the time Gortat first comes in, he is usually getting time with Dragic. The game might not be won or lost in the first 10 minutes but it sure as hell helps. More often then not the Suns are behind by the end of the 1st in several categories.

We should be maximizing Gortats time with Nash. There is no good team in the NBA that would be playing Lopez over Gortat. If the Lakers, Celts or Spurs had these exact same two guys.....Lopez is not starting. This is a Gentry thing.

Establishing Gortat as our starter will not save the season. However, that will solidify a spot that we don't have to draft or go out and fill in free agency. Gortat can be the Suns center for the next 8 years if we do this right.

Sooner rather then later Gentry is going to have to start treating Gortat like a starter. Besides from benefiting with more time with Nash at the start....starting in the NBA is also sign of respect for good players. Eventually, Gortat will not be happy playing behind an inferior player. You piss Gortat off and the dude doesn't resign here.

Seriously....the Lopez project is a failure. He will never be starting material.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Again, name me one team that benefits from starting an inferior center over one that should be starting?

I agree that whomever finishes is important. However, Lopez plays most of the 1st quarter with Nash. By the time Gortat first comes in, he is usually getting time with Dragic. The game might not be won or lost in the first 10 minutes but it sure as @#!*% helps. More often then not the Suns are behind by the end of the 1st in several categories.

We should be maximizing Gortats time with Nash. There is no good team in the NBA that would be playing Lopez over Gortat. If the Lakers, Celts or Spurs had these exact same two guys.....Lopez is not starting. This is a Gentry thing.

Establishing Gortat as our starter will not save the season. However, that will solidify a spot that we don't have to draft or go out and fill in free agency. Gortat can be the Suns center for the next 8 years if we do this right.

Sooner rather then later Gentry is going to have to start treating Gortat like a starter. Besides from benefiting with more time with Nash at the start....starting in the NBA is also sign of respect for good players. Eventually, Gortat will not be happy playing behind an inferior player. You @#!*% Gortat off and the dude doesn't resign here.

Seriously....the Lopez project is a failure. He will never be starting material.

Oh, where to begin.

1. Dragic and Gortat will likely be on this team longer than Nash will, so Gortat's time with Dragic is as important as his time with Nash.

2. To declare Lopez a failure at 22 is a foolish waste of an investment. This team must develop Lopez. He played better last year. He seems to be struggling coming back from injuries. There will always be a market for big strong players like Lopez, so as this team moves forward, it is in their best interest to try to develop him--either as a backup for us, or for use in trade. If Lopez shows some of the promise he had last year, he will be worth something.

3. If Gortat starts a month from now, it is reasonably possible that Nash will not be on the team. At that point, Gortat's time with Dragic will have been valuable.

There is a bigger picture

 

[devilalum]

There is a certain amount of respect that is gained in the NBA by being a "starter" vs a bench player. When the Suns were rolling a couple of years ago I remember players talking about how they put this aside for the good of the team. I heard an interview with Gortat and he said that he is ok with coming off the bench and that he knows he will get his opportunity to start if he continues to improve.

Every player wants to be a starter. I say you start your best players unless there is some obvious issue like your 3 best players are all shooting guards.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm ok with starting Lopez if he was improving BUT it seems he gets WORSE every game.

 

[Covert Rain]

Oh, where to begin.

1. Dragic and Gortat will likely be on this team longer than Nash will, so Gortat's time with Dragic is as important as his time with Nash.

Gortat still needs his time maximized with the other starters as well. Gortat is still learning as well. He would benefit for the same "supposed reasons" that Lopez is starting now. Not to mention again.....the Suns are usually in the hole with Lopez starting. That doesn't benefit anybody.

2. To declare Lopez a failure at 22 is a foolish waste of an investment. This team must develop Lopez. He played better last year. He seems to be struggling coming back from injuries. There will always be a market for big strong players like Lopez, so as this team moves forward, it is in their best interest to try to develop him--either as a backup for us, or for use in trade. If Lopez shows some of the promise he had last year, he will be worth something.

Let me clarify. Lopez will never be a star in this league. Lopez might very well become a journeyman type backup. However, as I posted before in another thread...look at all the good centers that are in the NBA. By this same stage in their career they showed some level of competence in scoring, rebounding or overall defense. None of which Lopez has. People base his flashes last year on what he did on offense. That is the opposite reason we drafted him (rebounding and defense). If you look at those #'s overall Lopez has been below average.

I have no problem them grooming Lopez to be a back up type player. Starting him behind a superior center is not grooming him to be backup IMO. It's telling him..."we still think you can be the starter on this team".

Aside form Slinslin, I don't know anybody who honestly believes that Lopez is starter material for most good teams in the NBA.

3. If Gortat starts a month from now, it is reasonably possible that Nash will not be on the team. At that point, Gortat's time with Dragic will have been valuable.

There is a bigger picture

Gortat is playing with both now so I think that is moot. However, getting the extra time with the rest of the starters (including Nash) is important IMO. We should have our best players out there together in the starting lineup.

First it sends the right message to our potential future center in Gortat. Also, Dragic might be only 1 of 5 starters on the court a month from now. Gortat needs to play with the other guys in the starting lineup just as much. We might not have Nash spoon feeding our guys anymore. So, getting to know the starters is going to be even more important. That is the bigger picture IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Let me clarify. Lopez will never be a star in this league. Lopez might very well become a journeyman type backup. However, as I posted before in another thread...look at all the good centers that are in the NBA.

I just don't see what the big deal is. I think it's obvious that Gortat is the far better player and I'm confident he will be the starter before much longer. But, if the coach believes there's a reason to start Lopez right now I've got no issue with it. If he's playing poorly he's only in there a handful of minutes anyway.

As for there never being a good center etc etc etc. Again, who cares. Right now, he looks useless. Last year he showed promise. What's changed? He suffered a back injury and is no longer playing alongside the best power forward in the game. I don't know which change has hurt his game the most but I see no reason to give up on a 22 year old center. There are plenty of serviceable centers throughout history that have shown little or nothing at this age. Sure, none of the great centers looked this bad into their 3rd season but Robin is not now, nor will he ever be anything close to a great center.

Based on this season, I think the guy's ceiling is somewhere around 3rd string center. However, if there's even a one in a hundred chance that he can become more than that I see no reason not to do whatever it takes to get him there. If nothing else, it might help his trade value. I'm NOT advocating starting Robin Lopez. I'm just comfortable with Gentry's decision on this for the short run. I might change my opinion if we all of a sudden show signs of being a playoff team but that would take more than a fluke win over an old and tired Celtics team.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

I just don't see what the big deal is. I think it's obvious that Gortat is the far better player and I'm confident he will be the starter before much longer. But, if the coach believes there's a reason to start Lopez right now I've got no issue with it. If he's playing poorly he's only in there a handful of minutes anyway.

As for there never being a good center etc etc etc. Again, who cares. Right now, he looks useless. Last year he showed promise. What's changed? He suffered a back injury and is no longer playing alongside the best power forward in the game. I don't know which change has hurt his game the most but I see no reason to give up on a 22 year old center. There are plenty of serviceable centers throughout history that have shown little or nothing at this age. Sure, none of the great centers looked this bad into their 3rd season but Robin is not now, nor will he ever be anything close to a great center.

Based on this season, I think the guy's ceiling is somewhere around 3rd string center. However, if there's even a one in a hundred chance that he can become more than that I see no reason to do whatever it takes to get him there. If nothing else, it might help his trade value. I'm NOT advocating starting Robin Lopez. I'm just comfortable with Gentry's decision on this for the short run. I might change my opinion if we all of a sudden show signs of being a playoff team but that would take more than a fluke win over an old and tired Celtics team.

Steve

I wish I could be as confident in Gentry's judgment this season as you because he seems bi-polar to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wish I could be as confident in Gentry's judgment this season as you because he seems bi-polar to me.

You know, I suspect part of the reason I'm confident in Gentry's decision making is that I just don't think it makes much of a difference. I'm not convinced he's a good coach anymore than I'm convinced he's a bad coach. I'm convinced he's got a mix of talent that would drive anyone insane.

I think if this group of players had started preseason together and resolved their chemistry issues we'd actually be in the running for a playoff spot and then perhaps I'd be taking a closer look at his coaching. As it is, all I really care about is what positions us better for the future - AFAIC, the present is already history.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I wish I could be as confident in Gentry's judgment this season as you because he seems bi-polar to me.

Alvin Gentry is an intelligent Coach who is working with what a new and dysfunctional Front Office has given him. An unbalanced team from the start of the season, followed by an un-doing and re-doing of the roster during the season.

Along with a Managing Partner who thinks he's Mark Cuban, waving his finger for all to see. Yeah, he gave us the finger, with all those picks he sold. He gave it to Alvin Gentry as well.

I don't believe there is an NBA coach who would be doing any better than 3 games under .500 at this point. Do I like that? Of course not. But I don't blame it on Gentry.

Remember, a year ago he came up with something out of the ordinary in the NBA -- a steady ten-man rotation which not only reached the playoffs, but had us over-performing. Bi-polar -- I don't think so. Handcuffed -- yes.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Getting Gortat was an absolute coup. He might end up being the best player in the trade.

Lamarcus Aldridge would be prefect on this team. I wonder if Portland is desperate enough to get rid of their only player for expiring contract and some good young players???

Probably not but he would be ideal IMO.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'd like LaMarcus Aldridge on this Team too!


There's a few PF's I like in Draft but Ekpe Udoh was my one of favorites last year and he's apparently struggling so lol I don't believe the Suns can Trade Carter with other players until Feb. but I'd consider adding a Draft Pick.

 

[desertdawg]

Gortat and Dudley need to join our greatness. They need to start. Never tank, it backfires. Start the ones that are playing, get tuff and punk out somebody in the playoffs.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Gortat and Dudley need to join our greatness. They need to start. Never tank, it backfires. Start the ones that are playing, get tuff and punk out somebody in the playoffs.

I would be for dealing VC for young players or picks. Maybe some contender might think he would help. His expiring is valuable for teams that want to free up space (the Suns might want the space more than anything). Our trade exception might be helpful in putting together a 3 way and maybe getting a pick out of it (like we did with Longley years ago). That way Dudley and Pietrus can get more minutes.

 

[desertdawg]

I LOVE THIS FRIGGIN GUY! Gortat rules!

 

[desertdawg]

The Polish Hammer is blowing up. Look for ESPN and everybody to talk Gortat.
Probably Jim Rome, PTI, all of them.

 

[Folster]

I was down with letting Stoudemire go under the circumstances, but could you imagine Gortat and him in the frontcourt.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was down with letting Stoudemire go under the circumstances, but could you imagine Gortat and him in the frontcourt.

Yeah, that's crossed my mind a few times also. Gortat could have been the difference to last year's team. Oh well, this is a new year. It's amazing how much he helps both our offense and our defense. If Vince Carter can continue to be aggressive on O we could actually turn this season around. Especially if he turns it around enough to get traded for a superstar power forward. Followed shortly by the revelation that tacos and beer are actually good for you.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I was down with letting Stoudemire go under the circumstances, but could you imagine Gortat and him in the frontcourt.

The Suns would be a legitimate contender for a championship with this front court, however, it would likely have never happened if the Suns kept Stoudemire.