The Suns with the 2018 #1 overall pick select....

[GatorAZ]

any player who would ask for a supermax chunk of a team's budget is not serious about competing for a championship

Easy to say when 180 mil isn’t staring you in the face.

 

[Hoop Head]

When he’s bigger and stronger he’ll be LESS capable?!? Huh? Is this backwards day and someone forgot to tell me?

How are PG's typically built in the NBA? They're usually slimmer than Doncic is now, right? Is it so hard to see that being a bit thinner could help Doncic play PG at the next level? He could get faster by losing weight but he would lose some strength in doing that.

If he were a PG, he should slim down, so he's able to be as quick as he's capable of being. That's all I'm saying. Didn't think it'd be so hard for anyone to understand. I don't even see him as a PG in the NBA, so I don't get what the big deal is.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How are PG's typically built in the NBA? They're usually slimmer than Doncic is now, right? Is it so hard to see that being a bit thinner could help Doncic play PG at the next level? He could get faster by losing weight but he would lose some strength in doing that.

If he were a PG, he should slim down, so he's able to be as quick as he's capable of being. That's all I'm saying. Didn't think it'd be so hard for anyone to understand. I don't even see him as a PG in the NBA, so I don't get what the big deal is.

He could turn some of that baby fat into muscle with a good training program, lose no size while getting a little quicker also.

 

[Errntknght]

Instead of Ayton?

Yes! There will plenty of momentum favoring Ayton so if our decision makers go against that for JJJ or Bamba they'll have to have strong reasons. If they're just trying to prove their the smartest people in the room well, screw them and I'll join the fire brigade.

 

[Hoop Head]

there hasn't been much talk of JJJ here but when i first reviewed the highlight tapes of the top draft prospects a few months ago i was most excited about him and Trae Young. any thoughts on the validity of this article?

Jaren Jackson Jr. is going to be the best big from the 2018 NBA Draft
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/5...t-2018-profile-scouting-report-michigan-state

I think that's possible but he also has the lowest floor. He's like Bender in that he will need a lot of development and at the #1 pick he'd be way too much of a gamble.

He could end up being the best 2 way big in this draft, not quite as good as Ayton on offense and not quite as good as Bamba on defense but he'd be just below those 2 on both sides so that would notch him ahead of both. If we had the #5 pick, it'd be hard to pass on him for Porter, who may be great but is a wing player and not a PF right now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think that's possible but he also has the lowest floor. He's like Bender in that he will need a lot of development and at the #1 pick he'd be way too much of a gamble.

He could end up being the best 2 way big in this draft, not quite as good as Ayton on offense and not quite as good as Bamba on defense but he'd be just below those 2 on both sides so that would notch him ahead of both. If we had the #5 pick, it'd be hard to pass on him for Porter, who may be great but is a wing player and not a PF right now.

He is certainly a work in progress but Bender, after two years in the NBA, still looks to be years away from even being a work in progress. Like everyone here, I hope our new Coach is a miracle worker and changes that Bender timeline but JJJ is miles beyond him regardless.

 

[BC867]

BC. You are approaching it all wrong. It's all about what Ayton is, not what Doncic isn't.

I don't think he's all wrong JC. BC is having a hard time figuring out where Doncic would fit on the suns. That is a valid point.

Thanks, poker. I've posted too many times how we need a Center for the decade(s) when he's right in our lap. In the post that JCSunsfan quoted, I zeroed in on why, even after we choose Ayton (fingers crossed), I wouldn't want to see Doncic trying to be our Point Guard.

We need, for the sake of the rest of the team, a real Point Guard (proven at that position at some level) who can make the rest of the team better on offense, as well as play defense against Point Guards and with a decent shot from outside.

What Ayton is, JC, affects Center. What Doncic isn't affects Point Guard. We have our Shooting Guard and Small Forward. After choosing Ayton and getting an established Point Guard one way or the other, we'll just need a role playing Power Forward to replace the draft-mates (pitted against each other), both of whom have shown too many shortcomings to fill the role. And a solid bench.

With a recent history of three lead Point Guards, then two lead Centers, and now the talk of three Small Forwards, it is time for the gimmicks to end.

It is indeed about what Ayton is ... and ... what Doncic isn't. That addresses two of the five positions on the court.

Or to put it another way, I don't want to see us draft Doncic for the Point Guard position no matter what or when, even if there were no Ayton. He's a tweener. Jack of all trades, master of none. Plus the fact that he is the Coach's 'boy' could only alienate the rest of the team. If Igor had intended them to be a package deal, that should have been resolved during his interview. If we had an experienced interviewer.

 

[TJ]

Yes! There will plenty of momentum favoring Ayton so if our decision makers go against that for JJJ or Bamba they'll have to have strong reasons. If they're just trying to prove their the smartest people in the room well, screw them and I'll join the fire brigade.

If McD picks Bamba or JJJ over Ayton, he should be fired and castrated. That would be a Cleveland Brown-esq decision

 

[pokerface]

Yes! There will plenty of momentum favoring Ayton so if our decision makers go against that for JJJ or Bamba they'll have to have strong reasons. If they're just trying to prove their the smartest people in the room well, screw them and I'll join the fire brigade.

I think JJJ has high upside potential but he also could end up a slightly better version of Chriss.

 

[Hoop Head]

I could see Bagley or Doncic going #1, I wouldn't like it but I'd trust there is solid reasoning behind the choice. JJJ or Bamba would be a mistake, same with Young. I love Young and wanted the Suns to pick him if they landed anywhere else but he's just not the #1 pick in this draft. Same with Porter with his injury history.

 

[pokerface]

You cant teach height...that already gives Ayton an edge. Plus he is a highly skilled offensive machine and rebounding madman...for his age. His defense will come around with good coaching. He fills a need at center.

If another player ends up better than Ayton than good for him but we can't gamble with the #1 pick. Picks 3-6 can afford to gamble more than us.

 

[taz02]

There is zero chance the suns pass on Ayton with the #1 pick, OK maybe .001% chance. Its not going to happen.

Trade the pick maybe but that is highly unlikely:

KAT - $188,000,000 - 5 yrs
Ayton - $30,000,000 - 5 yrs

Holly @#@!

Ayton is our guy.

 

[pokerface]

There is zero chance the suns pass on Ayton with the #1 pick, OK maybe .001% chance. Its not going to happen.

Trade the pick maybe but that is highly unlikely:

KAT - $188,000,000 - 5 yrs
Ayton - $30,000,000 - 5 yrs

Holly @#@!

Ayton is our guy.

Plus why sign KAT for 5 years when Golden State is going to dominate that same timeframe? With Ayton we can wait them out!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Plus why sign KAT for 5 years when Golden State is going to dominate that same timeframe? With Ayton we can wait them out!

Yup and be ready to dominate with a super athletic BIG team.

PGTBA
Booker (6’6)
JJ (6’8)
Hopefully Bender/Chriss (6’10)
Ayton (7’0)

You kidding me? In four years that team starts MAULING teams.

 

[Hoop Head]

Plus why sign KAT for 5 years when Golden State is going to dominate that same timeframe? With Ayton we can wait them out!

I don't see it that way. The age difference between Ayton and Town's isn't that great. The contracts mean much more than their age. I'd prefer Ayton but adding KAT helps us get to the postseason quicker to gain experience so by the time the Warriors are regressing the Suns would be in prime position to take the throne from them in the West. There's only a 3 year age difference between KAT and Ayton. Next year would become a year that anything less than the playoffs would be a failure with KAT while Ayton would put the Suns in a spot where anything less than 32-33 wins would be a failure, so a 10 game improvement. The Warriors have another 2 years of dominance after this season, IMO, and that would make Towns 25, Booker 24, and Jackson 23. Ayton would be 22 then. That's not really changing much of anything. We're waiting on the Warriors either way, there's no way around that, we'd just be able to get our guys playoff experience quicker with Towns.

 

[GatorAZ]

There is zero chance the suns pass on Ayton with the #1 pick, OK maybe .001% chance. Its not going to happen.

Trade the pick maybe but that is highly unlikely:

KAT - $188,000,000 - 5 yrs
Ayton - $30,000,000 - 5 yrs

Holly @#@!

Ayton is our guy.

Unless they detect something troubling about his motor/drive in interviews he’s our guy. I’m sure all these guys are well coached by their agents.

 

[Hoop Head]

I prefer Ayton to Towns but age plays little role in that. The window for KAT/Booker/Jackson and Ayton/Booker/Jackson would be very similar, opening a year sooner with KAT but with Ayton the window would be a little wider because we'd be able to afford another solid starter or difference maker because we're paying 1/4 of what Towns cost for Ayton.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I prefer Ayton to Towns but age plays little role in that. The window for KAT/Booker/Jackson and Ayton/Booker/Jackson would be very similar, opening a year sooner with KAT but with Ayton the window would be a little wider because we'd be able to afford another solid starter or difference maker because we're paying 1/4 of what Towns cost for Ayton.

We also have control for a lot longer. You have the rookie deal, then you have RFA and another 4 or 5 years.

 

[Hoop Head]

Another thing to look at if we did trade Ayton for Towns, would a team with Wiggins, Ayton, and Butler be better than they are now with Towns? That's debatable. With Thibs coaching Ayton as a rookie though I think he'd develop as a better defender than he would here. That would make him scarier to go against than Towns is now. Ayton would be their 3rd option, behind Wiggins and Butler, which seems to be one of the issues Towns has in Minnesota. That wouldn't be an issue with a rookie Ayton.

So they'd have that core and be a team we'd need to get past, can Booker, Jackson, and Towns get past them? I'm not sure. Booker > Wiggins, Butler > Jackson, and Ayton & Towns is a push, at this point. If Thibs gets Ayton to be an above average defender, Ayton will be a beast. He's a better rebounder and defender now than Towns, or he figures to be, but Towns is probably the better offensive player since he has more range. Defense beats offense, especially in the playoffs. I could see Ayton carrying a chip on his shoulder and holding it against the Suns also. He could have played for his hometown team here in Phoenix but instead he's traded to Minnesota before he was given the chance to show us anything? Give Ayton a chip on his shoulder and something to prove against the Suns and Ayton > Towns. We wouldn't be able to add as much around a big 3 of Booker, Jackson, and Towns also, so we'd make a team we'll be contending with stronger. That would sting getting stopped by Ayton and the Wolves in the postseason, it would be our fault also. Suns luck, that would happen also, making it one of the worst trades in team history.

 

[taz02]

Yup and be ready to dominate with a super athletic BIG team.

PGTBA
Booker (6’6)
JJ (6’8)
Hopefully Bender/Chriss (6’10)
Ayton (7’0)

You kidding me? In four years that team starts MAULING teams.

Yep, can't wait. Watching GS Houston reminds me of how much I miss the playoffs. IMO we don't need to copy Golden State we need to take their blue print and improve on it. That team is a good start.

Add a nasty defensive PF and a PG who can run the team and hit the 3 we are in great shape. We don't need superstars at PF or PG, just good smart players. You would think, with our current assets this would be more than realistic.

On a darker note, watching our former coach and GM battling it out in the finals is a reminder of managements previous shortcomings. I really hope they have figured that out, otherwise we are likely going to be disappointed.

 

[taz02]

Its not the age or even Golden States decline. Its the fact that $188,000,000.00 severely limits what else you can do. We need Ayton to be at least as good as KAT and a couple more pieces.

Roll the dice and get on with it, can't wait.

And, after all if it doesn't work out we can't possibly be any worse than we have been for the last, how many years?

 

[pokerface]

I don't see it that way. The age difference between Ayton and Town's isn't that great. The contracts mean much more than their age. I'd prefer Ayton but adding KAT helps us get to the postseason quicker to gain experience so by the time the Warriors are regressing the Suns would be in prime position to take the throne from them in the West. There's only a 3 year age difference between KAT and Ayton. Next year would become a year that anything less than the playoffs would be a failure with KAT while Ayton would put the Suns in a spot where anything less than 32-33 wins would be a failure, so a 10 game improvement. The Warriors have another 2 years of dominance after this season, IMO, and that would make Towns 25, Booker 24, and Jackson 23. Ayton would be 22 then. That's not really changing much of anything. We're waiting on the Warriors either way, there's no way around that, we'd just be able to get our guys playoff experience quicker with Towns.

Poop I never mentioned age...Its mostly about contract length. Plus cap room too. Here are reasons why Kat is a bad move right now...


Ayton will be year one on a rookie contract. We could control him for 8 or 9 years. Kat will be getting big dollars and only controlled for 5 years.

GS at a minimum will be unbeatable in a series versus the suns for the next 3 years. That is the minimum. It could 5 years which could eat up KAT's entire stay here. Booker still needs another year or two to start peaking . Jackson needs at least another couple/three seasons to get dominent.

Having Ayton longer means chances of keeping players around is also greater. Booker specifically will less likely bolt while Ayton remains. Having Booker and Townes contracts expiring the same time could be very dangerous in the future. One might get nervous about the other bailing and create a domino affect.

Ayton could end up being better than Townes. I think he probably will be on KATs level at least. He could end up being a better defender because Townes isn't known for his defense.

With KAT and Book being extended that will lock up the suns for a very long time financially. At least with Ayton we can add more talent via free agency this season and next. Chandler comes off the books next season...Knight a year later.


Why go for KAT now? We aren't assured of a deep playoff run. Booker, Jackson, #16 pick aren't ready yet. We would be paying much much more money for him while having him for a lot less time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How are PG's typically built in the NBA? They're usually slimmer than Doncic is now, right? Is it so hard to see that being a bit thinner could help Doncic play PG at the next level? He could get faster by losing weight but he would lose some strength in doing that.

If he were a PG, he should slim down, so he's able to be as quick as he's capable of being. That's all I'm saying. Didn't think it'd be so hard for anyone to understand. I don't even see him as a PG in the NBA, so I don't get what the big deal is.

What will make him most effective will be maximizing his physical capabilities, leveraging what makes him a mismatch. Not trying to fit him into a positional stereotype.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Thanks, poker. I've posted too many times how we need a Center for the decade(s) when he's right in our lap. In the post that JCSunsfan quoted, I zeroed in on why, even after we choose Ayton (fingers crossed), I wouldn't want to see Doncic trying to be our Point Guard.

We need, for the sake of the rest of the team, a real Point Guard (proven at that position at some level) who can make the rest of the team better on offense, as well as play defense against Point Guards and with a decent shot from outside.

What Ayton is, JC, affects Center. What Doncic isn't affects Point Guard. We have our Shooting Guard and Small Forward. After choosing Ayton and getting an established Point Guard one way or the other, we'll just need a role playing Power Forward to replace the draft-mates (pitted against each other), both of whom have shown too many shortcomings to fill the role. And a solid bench.

With a recent history of three lead Point Guards, then two lead Centers, and now the talk of three Small Forwards, it is time for the gimmicks to end.

It is indeed about what Ayton is ... and ... what Doncic isn't. That addresses two of the five positions on the court.

Or to put it another way, I don't want to see us draft Doncic for the Point Guard position no matter what or when, even if there were no Ayton. He's a tweener. Jack of all trades, master of none. Plus the fact that he is the Coach's 'boy' could only alienate the rest of the team. If Igor had intended them to be a package deal, that should have been resolved during his interview. If we had an experienced interviewer.

The “coaches boy” argument is so incredibly ridiculous it leaves me almost speechless.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The “coaches boy” argument is so incredibly ridiculous it leaves me almost speechless.

A rare moment of agreement amongst brothers these days!