Thinking Cardinals 8/16/11

[kerouac9]

Nobody has said it better K9

A leopard all of a sudden doesn't change it spots & neither will our Redbirds. They are what they are & always will be...history says that.

I'm not sure that's totally true. Part of the problem is that there's been a lack of continuity on the coaching staff--coaches generally bring in their "own guys", even when you're not making wholesale changes to the system.

The Cards need to draft better, especially under Whisenhunt. There's no question about that. But Whis has also been exiling Denny's guys from the roster until this season--when he purged essentially his entire first draft class. Next year we'll be looking at players that Whis has more ownership over because one would hope he had more say on the personnel side following the 8-8 season, then more after the Super Bowl run.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

None of the teams you mentioned had a winning record last year, Spanky. There was still a Lombardi to be won last year. And none of the teams you mentioned were coming off of back to back playoff seasons and division titles.

You and others may wish to give the Bidwills a mulligan for last year and call it an abberation. I don't. Their response to the Super Bowl appearance was unacceptable to me as well. It should have inspired them to make the Cardinals "stacked."

I give the Bidwill's a mulligan on their inability to clone a Kurt Warner.

 

[Mulli]

Nobody has said it better K9

A leopard all of a sudden doesn't change it spots & neither will our Redbirds. They are what they are & always will be...history says that.

Yep, most of the chronic the handwringing about the Cardinals is a case of unrealistic expectations.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

where did i say that? i just think we'd have a BETTER ability to compete if we actually used the funds available to upgrade positions, namely at T, WR, and CB where there were good solid options out there that we passed on.



he's got a no-trade clause. why wouldn't he just wait until he hit FA... and if we pull off a trade that HE wants, we'll get our asses fleeced.

He does not. He has a no franchise tag agreement.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He does not. He has a no franchise tag agreement.

i actually think you're wrong and he has both... and even if he doesn't have no trade clause in his contract, him being in the last year of his contract, basically gives him the same leverage if he did as no one will trade for him unless they know he'll sign an extension there.

 

[joeshmo]

Yes. These two teams were immense buyers on the 2010 free agent market. C'mon. What do they do year after year? Lock up their best players on the roster and develop the players underneath them.

The issue for the team is not a lack of activity in free agency. It's an inability to draft and retain the players who become the core of the roster.

This is all that needs to be said.

What is ironic is that this Packers Method is actually the cheaper route to take then the method we took this current offseason.

Cards are not afraid to spend money on average the last 5 years under Wiz, those are the facts and the accounting backs that up.

Its a matter of who they spent it on and how wisely they spent it that should be under debate IMO, not the amount they did spend.

Example - Long Term Deuce or 2 years of Womack

 

[Crazy Canuck]

i actually think you're wrong and he has both... and even if he doesn't have no trade clause in his contract, him being in the last year of his contract, basically gives him the same leverage if he did as no one will trade for him unless they know he'll sign an extension there.

He gave up the no trade in an adjustment to his deal a few years back. Of course his willlingness to sign would effect a trade and, I suspect, that positively influenced our trade for Kolb.

(This is all in the realm of the hypothetical, but, on balance, I believe there is a much, much greater chance that he re-signs with the Cards then venturing out.)

 

[THESMEL]

way to much weight on a preseason game after this lockout. I think they are both better than us, but preseason is not done with us yet!

We have had 5 practices before our game together, We got it in the oven, let it bake.

 

[cardncubfan]

http://blog.azcardinals.com/

Urban on Fitz's contract.

 

[Bert]

i actually think you're wrong and he has both... and even if he doesn't have no trade clause in his contract, him being in the last year of his contract, basically gives him the same leverage if he did as no one will trade for him unless they know he'll sign an extension there.

Do you really think he'd play out this year with no deal and risk injry with no contract in place?

I'm not leading you, its an honest question, I'm trying to figure out I believe Fitz would take that risk. He's a smart guy. That's why I think he'll wind up signing with us sooner rather than later. What do you think?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Do you really think he'd play out this year with no deal and risk injry with no contract in place?

I'm not leading you, its an honest question, I'm trying to figure out I believe Fitz would take that risk. He's a smart guy. That's why I think he'll wind up signing with us sooner rather than later. What do you think?

i hope so... but i think he'll wait and see if we're a disaster or not. i think above all Fitz wants to win and if he doesn't think that's possible here, he won't sign no matter how much money's thrown at him. I also think guys like probably think they're invinceable.

 

[Bert]

i hope so... but i think he'll wait and see if we're a disaster or not. i think above all Fitz wants to win and if he doesn't think that's possible here, he won't sign no matter how much money's thrown at him. I also think guys like probably think they're invinceable.

You're probably right he's not as worried about it as I'd like to think he is.

I just want them to get it done so this part of the offseason can be behind us. I know contracts are a part of this business but we've just had one of these looming over our offseason every year for a while now and I'm over it. We have other needs, the FO has other stuff to do and they've basically admitted that they cant multi task.

I keep preaching patience so I'm going to follow my own advice but I would really like this to be done so it's one less concern.

 

[Zeno]

He gave up the no trade in an adjustment to his deal a few years back. Of course his willlingness to sign would effect a trade and, I suspect, that positively influenced our trade for Kolb.

(This is all in the realm of the hypothetical, but, on balance, I believe there is a much, much greater chance that he re-signs with the Cards then venturing out.)

Your info is wrong.

Quote from Urban...

Fitz has a no-trade clause too — at least one in which he has to approve any destination

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your info is wrong.

Quote from Urban...

that's what i thought.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Q: Why did Kevin Kolb come to AZ?
A: Fitz
Q: Why will Fitz stay in AZ?
A: Kolb

Kolb, for all intent and purposes, was scouted by Fitz and approved by him. And, it's is obvious that Kolb wanted above all else to sign long term with AZ.

Fitz doesn't want to go through the instability at QB that he suffered though last season, after the fun years with Kurt.

The last thing he wants to do is hook up with another team, no matter who the QB, with the possibility of change in a couple of years hence ala Warner.

He helped recruit a guy of his age who will be part of his future for, short of injury or failure, years to come.

His efforts and those of the FO in bringing stability to that all important position is what matters (IMO) not back up NT's and the search for the ever elusive pass rushing OLB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Q: Why did Kevin Kolb come to AZ?
A: Fitz
Q: Why will Fitz stay in AZ?
A: Kolb

Kolb, for all intent and purposes, was scouted by Fitz and approved by him. And, it's is obvious that Kolb wanted above all else to sign long term with AZ.

Fitz doesn't want to go through the instability at QB that he suffered though last season, after the fun years with Kurt.

The last thing he wants to do is hook up with another team, no matter who the QB, with the possibility of change in a couple of years hence ala Warner

um... there are lots of place where there's not only stability at QB, but there's also history of WINNING with those guys... namely in NE, who has a penchant for making big moves... or Indy (where Wayne's getting long in the tooth)... or GB who has stability at QB... or The Falcons who have pretty much everything above and make major FA and trade moves (Gonzo, Abrams, Turner)... or the Saints (who make me major FA noise)... all of them winners with QBs who can play for another 6 years and are PROVEN winners. None of those teams are changing QBs any time and ALL of them have shown the ability to go out and make a big move. Hell, you could even throw the Ravens and the Chargers in there as young teams with bona-fide young QBs who know how to win. The idea that THIS team is in any way stable, especially in comparison with the teams above doesn't hold a lot of water for me.

He helped recruit a guy of his age who will be part of his future for, short of injury or failure, years to come.

His efforts and those of the FO in bringing stability to that all important position is what matters (IMO) not back up NT's and the search for the ever elusive pass rushing OLB.

really... you think it's just QB... and having zero #2 WR, an O-line that can actually play, or having a Defense that isn't terrible doesn't matter to him. I think this assumes Fitz isn't all that smart. He knows a QB isn't an end all be all.

And if you're right and none of that does matter, considering the Cards are probably throwing the entire franchise at him... why hasn't he signed?

 

[Mulli]

um... there are lots of place where there's not only stability at QB, but there's also history of WINNING with those guys... namely in NE, who has a penchant for making big moves... or Indy (where Wayne's getting long in the tooth)... or GB who has stability at QB... or The Falcons who have pretty much everything above and make major FA and trade moves (Gonzo, Abrams, Turner)... or the Saints (who make me major FA noise)... all of them winners with QBs who can play for another 6 years and are PROVEN winners. None of those teams are changing QBs any time and ALL of them have shown the ability to go out and make a big move. Hell, you could even throw the Ravens and the Chargers in there as young teams with bona-fide young QBs who know how to win. The idea that THIS team is in any way stable, especially in comparison with the teams above doesn't hold a lot of water for me.



really... you think it's just QB... and having zero #2 WR, an O-line that can actually play, or having a Defense that isn't terrible doesn't matter to him. I think this assumes Fitz isn't all that smart. He knows a QB isn't an end all be all.

And if you're right and none of that does matter, considering the Cards are probably throwing the entire franchise at him... why hasn't he signed?

Because he is leaving, the sooner people come to terms with that the better. It is done. Fitz is gone.

 

[Shane]

Because he is leaving, the sooner people come to terms with that the better. It is done. Fitz is gone.

 

[joeshmo]

why hasn't he signed?

Slowest Agent on the planet. His Agent doesnt not allow his players to re-sign, sign, or extend until the last possible second. Is that last second Sept 11th or sometime in October, do not know.

Cards want 5 years, Fitz wants 4 years.

Total Money wont be an issue but how much gauranteed?

Still lots of things to negotiate.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Because he is leaving, the sooner people come to terms with that the better. It is done. Fitz is gone.

Sadly, Mulli, I think you're right. Someone just told him that Whiz kicked The Leenart in the nuts and Larry's worried about his future ability to father children.

He's going to the Jets because he has ugly feet and figures he'll be safe there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Because he is leaving, the sooner people come to terms with that the better. It is done. Fitz is gone.

I'll pack him a lunch - do you think he likes PB&J sandwiches (that's my specialty).

I want to keep him (and think we will) but am I the only one that thinks making him the highest paid receiver in the game along with all the other contractual bells and whistles that Parker will demand is only marginally better than letting him leave?

Steve

 

[Crazy Canuck]

um... there are lots of place where there's not only stability at QB, but there's also history of WINNING with those guys... namely in NE, who has a penchant for making big moves... or Indy (where Wayne's getting long in the tooth)... or GB who has stability at QB... or The Falcons who have pretty much everything above and make major FA and trade moves (Gonzo, Abrams, Turner)... or the Saints (who make me major FA noise)... all of them winners with QBs who can play for another 6 years and are PROVEN winners. None of those teams are changing QBs any time and ALL of them have shown the ability to go out and make a big move. Hell, you could even throw the Ravens and the Chargers in there as young teams with bona-fide young QBs who know how to win. The idea that THIS team is in any way stable, especially in comparison with the teams above doesn't hold a lot of water for me.

really... you think it's just QB... and having zero #2 WR, an O-line that can actually play, or having a Defense that isn't terrible doesn't matter to him. I think this assumes Fitz isn't all that smart. He knows a QB isn't an end all be all.

And if you're right and none of that does matter, considering the Cards are probably throwing the entire franchise at him... why hasn't he signed?

I think Fitz wants to create his own legacy, not add to those of Brady, Manning et al.

If you want to ignore his role in recruiting KOLB, feel free.

As to the state of the team, and where it's headed, I've heard from you and others, but I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitz shares your views.

If he doesn't sign, then you are no doubt right.

If he does, try not to call him a fool or selfish.

As to why it isn't signed, yet?

Don't know. These are complicated things and the devil is in the details.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'll pack him a lunch - do you think he likes PB&J sandwiches (that's my specialty).

I want to keep him (and think we will) but am I the only one that thinks making him the highest paid receiver in the game along with all the other contractual bells and whistles that Parker will demand is only marginally better than letting him leave?

Steve

Highest paid here or highest paid somewhere else.

Hall of Fame career here or Hall of Fame career somewhere else.

 

[wa52lz]

A lot has been said on this thread about the $30 or $40 million not spent last year, and I was wondering if anyone could clear up a couple of things in re: to this money.
1) Is it true that the Cardinals had made offers for the same or equal money to Dansby and Rolle? If so were they negotiating simultaneously w/ both or was one already signed before the other was made an offer?
2) How did the Rule of 8, or whatever it was called since we made the Final 8 in 2009, effect the ability to sign FA’s from other teams?
3) If we made fair offers to Dansby and Rolle and they walked because they wanted to be somewhere else, who should have we spent that money on and would it have been possible w/ the Rule of 8?? Looking at this list of 2010 FA’s there aren’t too many names that stand out that were UFA’s. Should we’ve just spent the money and over paid marginal players to not give the appearance of being cheap?
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2010&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Fitz wants to create his own legacy, not add to those of Brady, Manning et al.

Fitz knows he can't create a legacy if he doesn't win. thinking that hooking up with two of the best QBs of all time, who haven't won anything in a while and getting them back on top while winning himself won't hurt his legacy. it'll only enhance it. And the other QBs besides Brees has never won a Super Bowl, yet are proven winners.

If you want to ignore his role in recruiting KOLB, feel free.

not ignoring anything... but i've seen guys recruit players in MANY a sport and when it doesn't work, they don't stick around just because their idea didn't work.

but if you want to ignore that Fitz probably realizes there's more to rebuilding a team than just getting a QB, you can keep doing that.

As to the state of the team, and where it's headed, I've heard from you and others, but I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitz shares your views.

If he doesn't sign, then you are no doubt right.

and will be pissed.

If he does, try not to call him a fool or selfish.

lol... yeah, cause THAT'S what I do when something good happens to the Cardinals. good grief. I'll be happier than a pig in slop if he signs with us. But thanks for intimating that somehow I would think badly of him if came back. I mean... jesus.

As to why it isn't signed, yet?

Don't know. These are complicated things and the devil is in the details.

and sometimes the details aren't the only things that matter... the big picture does as well.