This assumption that Leonard Davis is worth something in trade

[Ed Burmila]

Well, when the new Head Coach is hired Loney probably won't be here anymore. I know what Graves said today about "bringing back" coaches but there's not a coach alive who will take a head coaching position without being able to clean house and hire his own guys.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

I think Big gets one hell of a contract if he isnt franchised. The salary cap goes up again for next year. There are hardly any OL available, much less a 380-lb LT that has started for five years in the league.

Not saying I can predict what he'll get, but he's on the right side of the supply/demand theory in a free market. If they do not franchise him I think one of two things will happen:

1. He will get a huge contract the Cards won't match
2. He will get a huge contract the Cards can't match ( A $1 million bonus every game he plays in AZ anyone?)

I don't think Leonard Davis is worth what he will get in free agency, but if he isn't tagged I bet he gets a deal worth $40-50 million.

Just my two cents

 

[Evil Ash]

DeMarcus Ware and Greg Ellis took turns running around Davis (and Wells, to be fair). I wouldn't say that he has been exactly flawless in the last 7 weeks.

He played better down the stretch. But they ALL played better down the stretch. Our disagreement seems to be that I think he went from horrible to acceptable, and you think he went from acceptable to good. I'm just not convinced that he's a "wow" guy. Even when he was much better he wasn't what we expected when we paid him $36,000,000.

and see thats the crux of the arguement is that people can find someone equal to him or better in the draft.

I'm not so sure and I'd prefer to keep him then draft another OT early in the draft for at the bare minimum of depth. If you then feel that Big hasn't lived up to expectations and/or that the player that the drafted can replace him then you let him go

That is a plan that can actually work out for everyone involved. With a horrid FA class for lineman and us unlikely to get the top Olineman in the draft (Thomas), I'd rather keep him then let him go and pray for a miracle. If Jake Long had come out in the draft then I may have been more accepting of letting Big go for nothing.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Well, when the new Head Coach is hired Loney probably won't be here anymore. I know what Graves said today about "bringing back" coaches but there's not a coach alive who will take a head coaching position without being able to clean house and hire his own guys.

Your right Ed, probably not a soul on the planet who would take a 600% pay raise if it meant working with people you didn't hand pick.

That being said, I agree it's a terrible start to the search.

 

[Rats]

I'm not pulling this out of thin air. I realize that Mr. Rats is one of the "I am committed to disagreeing with every single thing Ed says" board members, but the organization - Graves and Loney included - were moaning about how much Davis sucked 8 weeks ago. It's not my fault you can't remember that far back. Maybe laying off the booze will help that memory.

Maybe, but I doubt that it would help me remember something that never happened. Are you really saying that Graves and Loney came out and said Big sucked 8 weeks ago? They might have talked in generalties about the Line but they have always said he was there best lineman and wanted to wait and see how he performed before giving him a contract that will be in the top 5 of the league for LT. I am not committed to disagreeing with every single thing you say....just the things that make no sense.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Your right Ed, probably not a soul on the planet who would take a 600% pay raise if it meant working with people you didn't hand pick.

That being said, I agree it's a terrible start to the search.

Please find me one example in NFL history of a head coach being hired with a staff already in place.

I'll wait.

Nice new sig, by the way. I haven't heard anyone tease me with "Special Ed" since about the 2nd grade. It took the other 7 year olds on the playground about 10 seconds to think of it. What did it take you, a couple minutes?

 

[Evil Ash]

Please find me one example in NFL history of a head coach being hired with a staff already in place.

I'll wait.

Nice new sig, by the way. It's one of my finest quotes, and it's only fair since I have your very finest too.

Tony Dungy went to the Colts with the offensive staff still in place.

 

[Ed Burmila]

I think he told the Colts in advance he wanted to retain Tom Moore. But good catch.

I don't exactly think that Kruzcek is Tom Moore, though. Is anyone going to look at the Cardinals and think "Now that's a powerhouse I just don't want to tinker with!"??

 

[Evil Ash]

I think he told the Colts in advance he wanted to retain Tom Moore. But good catch.

I don't exactly think that Kruzcek is Tom Moore, though. Is anyone going to look at the Cardinals and think "Now that's a powerhouse I just don't want to tinker with!"??

Kruzcek is likely to be reatined as the QB coach not as the OC assuming he is kept at all. I still think the new HC will have alot of say as to who stays and who goes

 

[Ed Burmila]

Fair enough. If they hire a nobody, the new guy might be coerced into keeping a few old assistants. But if they have dreams of guys like Norm Chow or people with NFL HC experience there is no way that person isn't going to want his own staff. Green didn't exactly do such a great job hiring assistants that the next guy won't think it can be improved upon.

 

[Evil Ash]

Fair enough. If they hire a nobody, the new guy might be coerced into keeping a few old assistants. But if they have dreams of guys like Norm Chow or people with NFL HC experience there is no way that person isn't going to want his own staff. Green didn't exactly do such a great job hiring assistants that the next guy won't think it can be improved upon.

I agree to a certain extent but with the new rules regarding having to ask permission to talk to any NFL coach (whether its for a promotion or not) can really hamper things when it comes to finding new assistants. So you might see more teams starting to do this type of thing done by other teams in the future regarding some of the assistants on the previous staff.

They still have say over who stays and who goes but they know for certain that the assistants will still be available when the new HC is hired

 

[Goodyear Card]

Why is everyone saying Thomas will not be available when we pick? Most of the Early mock drafts have us selecting him. Everyone is over reacting to losing Big. Its still a possibility we might re-sign him.

 

[Stout]

Please find me one example in NFL history of a head coach being hired with a staff already in place.
I'll wait.

Nice new sig, by the way. I haven't heard anyone tease me with "Special Ed" since about the 2nd grade. It took the other 7 year olds on the playground about 10 seconds to think of it. What did it take you, a couple minutes?

Gruden went to Tampa with the entire defensive staff intact.

 

[Evil Ash]

Why is everyone saying Thomas will not be available when we pick? Most of the Early mock drafts have us selecting him. Everyone is over reacting to losing Big. Its still a possibility we might re-sign him.

Because there are 4 teams ahead of us and they all need Olineman.

Mock drafts aren't exactly the most reliable info. For example I remember a mock draft by USA Today years back that had Corey Chavous going in the top 10

 

[ajcardfan]

Gruden went to Tampa with the entire defensive staff intact.

The difference being, of course, they had been to the playoffs a few times with Dungy. I doubt that unit was 29th overall and 29th in scoring like ours was this past season.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Gruden went to Tampa with the entire defensive staff intact.

OK. Zing. I lose.

I still think there's a difference in what we have here and the TB Super Bowl defense or the Colts offense.

 

[kerouac9]

Ed, I don't think that anyone will give a first round pick for Leonard Davis. A first-round pick, even in the 20s, it too valuable today from both a financial and future-benefit perspective.

That said, I think that it is absolutely imperative that the Cardinals retain the services of Leonard Davis until at least the 2008 season. The Cards have no one that can replace Davis even for a handful of games right now. There's no one who's going to be able to replace even 50% of Davis's production in free agency. You have to franchise him because the front office did a horrible job of putting the pieces in place to possibly replace him (as Rod Graves failed to do at WR following the departures of Boston, Sanders, and Jenkins and at cornerback after Starks and Hill left--again, killer re-signing, Bidwills).

Leonard Davis did a great job against Merriman and his partner on the other side last week. He's been clearing holes for Edge to run through. I know that $11 million is a big number to swallow (pun not intended, but noted), but I think that Davis is just about as good as Bryant McKinnie in Minny, and look at the deal that he got.

If this team is going to get better, you can't keep using the draft to plug holes that you made yourself. I agree that Leonard Davis isn't a "core" player on this team. But letting him walk with nothing to show for it and no one to step in would be a step backward for the entire franchise.

 

[40yearfan]

Ed, I don't think that anyone will give a first round pick for Leonard Davis. A first-round pick, even in the 20s, it too valuable today from both a financial and future-benefit perspective.

That said, I think that it is absolutely imperative that the Cardinals retain the services of Leonard Davis until at least the 2008 season. The Cards have no one that can replace Davis even for a handful of games right now. There's no one who's going to be able to replace even 50% of Davis's production in free agency. You have to franchise him because the front office did a horrible job of putting the pieces in place to possibly replace him (as Rod Graves failed to do at WR following the departures of Boston, Sanders, and Jenkins and at cornerback after Starks and Hill left--again, killer re-signing, Bidwills).

Leonard Davis did a great job against Merriman and his partner on the other side last week. He's been clearing holes for Edge to run through. I know that $11 million is a big number to swallow (pun not intended, but noted), but I think that Davis is just about as good as Bryant McKinnie in Minny, and look at the deal that he got.

If this team is going to get better, you can't keep using the draft to plug holes that you made yourself. I agree that Leonard Davis isn't a "core" player on this team. But letting him walk with nothing to show for it and no one to step in would be a step backward for the entire franchise.

I agree. I just don't think the Cards will let him walk. That hasn't been their pattern and I don't know why they would resort to old ways again.

 

[football karma]

For a team with an overwhelming surplus of salary cap space, we spend an awful lot of time worrying about spending it wisely. I dont care if $11 mm is too much for Leonard. The team simply doesnt have any options at left tackle for next year.

If Jake Long and/or Sam Baker had declared, I might be more inclined to let Davis walk-- but even then, I hate going into a draft knowing that the team has to find a starter at left tackle. Need based drafting leads to bad drafting.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Sounds an awful lot like all the posts the past about how LJ Shelton was worth "at least" a 1st.

I laughed at such insanity as well. But the reality is for all of Davis' faults he is still at least twice the LT that Shelton was and is.

 

[Pariah]

For all of Davis' faults, he's the best lineman we have. Would he command a first-round pick? Probably not. But that doesn't diminish his importance to the Cardinals. Davis MUST be retained for the Cardinals offense to be successful next year.

Go ahead and question my intelligence. Wouldn't be the first time you done that (coincidentally, it wouldn't be the first time you've been wrong, either).

 

[conraddobler]

Davis is worth a low first rounder which someone like Dallas would pay, I'm not familiar though with how you get out of the two first rounders price tag on a player.

If Davis wants out and wants out really bad then he has some leverage, the implicit threat is that you'll sign me and a mysterio injury is going to happen to me game 1 1st quarter and you get squat for your $

That I think is something like Simeon Rice was going to pull and we let him walk.

This seems to be shaping up like that but if say a team like Dallas really wanted him then maybe we could sign him to a Deal they like and trade him but I think that's pretty tough to do because of the cap implications of it.

I don't know how you get down to just taking 1 1st rounder for him, anyone know how that's done?

 

[Zeno]

Davis is worth a low first rounder which someone like Dallas would pay, I'm not familiar though with how you get out of the two first rounders price tag on a player.

We franchised Aeneas Williams the offseason he was traded to the Rams--we got a 2nd rounder and like a 4th rounder--right? Its just a matter of protecting the team so a player can't leave without receiving some compensation--its a matter of 2 things, 1--the player agreeing to a contract with another team and 2-- that team agreeing to compensate the original team.

The 2 first round pick thing is when a team absolutely wants to guarantee they won't lose a player and they let it be known across the league they will not accept anything less.

 

[BigDavis75]

OK we can agree on that. No "Pete Kendall" strategy, i.e. we'll cut him and replace him with some bum off the street. If they want to let him walk they better have someone else to step in.

I would not be surprised, however, if Davis goes bye-bye followed by signing Eric Steinbach to play RG and moving Lutui to tackle. Lutui probably WAS the best lineman down the stretch.

There is no way Lutui plays tackle as well as Davis has.

 

[Evil Ash]

Davis is worth a low first rounder which someone like Dallas would pay, I'm not familiar though with how you get out of the two first rounders price tag on a player.

The 2 first rounders are the cost of signing someone that is franchised directly. This happened years ago for the Cowboys to get Galloway

However what happens usually is that a player signs the tender and is traded away to another team. The cost (1st rounder, 2nd rounder, combination of draft picks) is decided amongst the two teams