Trade talks & rumors

JCSunsfan

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I would really struggle trading Len for Cousins. I know that sounds silly, but the potential I see there is phenomenal and he is not the head case Cousins is.

I would probably trade anyone else on the roster for him though.
 

SirStefan32

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I would really struggle trading Len for Cousins. I know that sounds silly, but the potential I see there is phenomenal and he is not the head case Cousins is.

I would probably trade anyone else on the roster for him though.

I agree with you, JC. Len is a BIG Center who can play. Those guys are hard to find, and it is scary how good he might become. Hell, he is already a huge difference-maker for this team.

For me to trade Len, it would take a legitimate star with no behavioral issues.
LMA probably fits that category, but Cousins does not.
 

elindholm

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Obviously the Suns would but why in the hell the Kings would trade Cousins for a package builded around Len?

Why does any malcontent star ever get moved? Eventually the team decides that the relationship can't be salvaged and that it's time to move on. All I said was "if" the Kings decided to give up on Cousins, a package of Len, salary relief, picks, and supplemental players could be credible.
 

Mainstreet

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I don't think anyone is questioning the shrewdness of McDonough... The issue seems to about that with every move he makes, many here read into it and believe it's all about prepping for that one "big trade"... As I mentioned earlier - "big" needs to be defined...

As most posters know, or should know, the opportunity has to be there to trade for star quality player. That significant player may not even be a household name at the moment so we agree "big" needs to be defined.
 

Mainstreet

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Obviously the Suns would but why in the hell the Kings would trade Cousins for a package builded around Len?

I personally disagree. Why would the Suns trade a 21 year center in Len who looks to have a bright future for a player that has been problematic. Cousins is a tremendous talent but I would not make that gamble. If it were any other Suns player(s) and draft picks to make it work, I would do the trade.
 

JS22

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I am a massive Len homer but you absolutely trade him for Cousins. Like, yesterday.

IT would have to be shipped out though. They might kill eachother.
 

elindholm

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I personally disagree. Why would the Suns trade a 21 year center in Len who looks to have a bright future for a player that has been problematic. Cousins is a tremendous talent but I would not make that gamble. If it were any other Suns player(s) and draft picks to make it work, I would do the trade.

But see, now we're getting somewhere. The only big trade that can work is one where both sides are giving up something of value. If it's a trade where one side says, "Hell yes, we're unanimously for that with no reservations whatsoever," then the trade isn't going through, because the other side isn't getting enough.

Do you think Cleveland is having second thoughts on giving up Wiggins for Love? You'd better believe it. But they had to take that gamble in order to make the trade work.
 
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sunsfan88

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I personally disagree. Why would the Suns trade a 21 year center in Len who looks to have a bright future for a player that has been problematic. Cousins is a tremendous talent but I would not make that gamble. If it were any other Suns player(s) and draft picks to make it work, I would do the trade.

Cousins hasn't been that problematic lately. He's matured quite a bit. They have the dumbest FO in the NBA and their owner wants to like try 4 on 5 type stuff.

Cousins is a passionate player and that could be troublesome but unlike the Morris twins, Cousins makes up for his immaturity with his play.

Cousins is the most dominant center the NBA has had since Dwight Howard.

I would offer every and any single player or asset on the Suns for him. The bad part is, the Kings would still say no.
 
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sunsfan88

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Dan Woike ‏@DanWoikeSports
Bullock said he felt like he never really got a true opportunity with LAC, largely because of injuries during rookie season & last summer.

Dan Woike @DanWoikeSports
Bullock said he's excited for new opportunity in Phoenix

Lol I sure hope Bullock isn't expecting to get much or any playing time in PHX.

I can't imagine him getting more playing time with us than he did with LAC because we have Tucker, Marcus, Warren all ahead of him at SF and then Dragic, Green and Goodwin all ahead of him at SG.

Pretty much. Imagine if Tucker was more athletic but not quite as strong. Perhaps a slightly better shooter too. That described Reggie pretty well.
I don't think he has a really high ceiling (like Len, Warren, or even Goodwin), but he will be a very good role player if given a chance.
That will be hard to do. We already know that playing guys who are in their 19-23 years old range has been a hard task for Hornacek to grasp so now with the addition of Bullock, I don't see playing time opening up unless there's another trade where we send like 3 players for 1 or something.
 
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82CardsGrad

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Cousins hasn't been that problematic lately. He's matured quite a bit. They have the dumbest FO in the NBA and their owner wants to like try 4 on 5 type stuff.

Cousins is a passionate player and that could be troublesome but unlike the Morris twins, Cousins makes up for his immaturity with his play.

Cousins is the most dominant center the NBA has had since Dwight Howard.

I would offer every and any single player or asset on the Suns for him. The bad part is, the Kings would still say no.

I dunno... Certainly, you can't question the production from Cousins. He's a stat filling machine.
I just feel that a year or two from now, Len will be a better component within a team setting, putting up some gaudy numbers of his own (though probably short of what Cousins puts up today), but being a better fit and a better piece to a winning team.
I'm willing to hold out and let Len continue his amazing development. Frankly, the issues the Suns have at this moment - and I can't believe I'm saying this, aren't with the center position... thanks to Len!
 

Mainstreet

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But see, now we're getting somewhere. The only big trade that can work is one where both sides are giving up something of value. If it's a trade where one side says, "Hell yes, we're unanimously for that with no reservations whatsoever," then the trade isn't going through, because the other side isn't getting enough.

Do you think Cleveland is having second thoughts on giving up Wiggins for Love? You'd better believe it. But they had to take that gamble in order to make the trade work.

I understand each team has to give up a player they want to keep to make a big trade happen. However, if I'm the Suns, I keep Len over Cousins and then swallow real hard. Of course I'm betting Len can lead a team to a championship.

In regard to Cleveland, I'd rather have Wiggins over Love. Neither Cousins or Love have lead their team anywhere although making the playoffs in the East should be easy for the Cavaliers but I give credit to Lebron in this matter.
 

JCSunsfan

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Cousins hasn't been that problematic lately. He's matured quite a bit. They have the dumbest FO in the NBA and their owner wants to like try 4 on 5 type stuff.



Cousins is a passionate player and that could be troublesome but unlike the Morris twins, Cousins makes up for his immaturity with his play.



Cousins is the most dominant center the NBA has had since Dwight Howard.



I would offer every and any single player or asset on the Suns for him. The bad part is, the Kings would still say no.


If cousins is all that, why is his team always so bad? I think you significantly overrate him.
 
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sunsfan88

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If cousins is all that, why is his team always so bad? I think you significantly overrate him.

I think in the NBA today, it's impossible for any player to do good if he's the only good player on the team. Obviously some guys like LBJ are exceptions to this but overall it remains true.

And I'm not saying he's always been that good, he's improved a ton the past 2 years.

Remember when Zach Randolph was concerned a cancerous player? Grizz took a chance on him and I don't think they have ever even once regretted it.

Cousins will require trading away more assets but he's also way better than Z-Bo.

I'm done discussing this because it's equivalent to us discussing a trade for Anthony Davis or Andrew Wiggins....Kings will not trade Cousins especially not to the Suns.
 
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AzStevenCal

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I think in the NBA today, it's impossible for any player to do good if he's the only good player on the team. Obviously some guys like LBJ are exceptions to this but overall it remains true.

And I'm not saying he's always been that good, he's improved a ton the past 2 years.

It's even more true for a big man.

But as good as Cousins is and as much as he's matured in the last couple of years, he's still an enigma. I've watched them play quite a bit lately and sometimes he seems like he's out there just for stats. It seems like every other night he gives them full effort and then he plays solely for himself the next game (quits on plays, doesn't fight for the ball, steps out of the way instead of contesting on defense etc.). He's still noticably better than Len but I wouldn't trade Len straight up for him. I think Alex will eventually be a better all around player and I don't think we're close enough to winning it all to want to deal with Cousins.

Steve
 

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Bullock is, so far, strictly a jump shooter and 2/3 of his shots are 3s. He gets to the line so seldom he must not drive often at all - Kendall Marshall type numbers. He's hitting 38.5% from 3, which is probably his appeal. A coach from LAC said he had good defensive potential but didn't say he was presently a good defender. I'd expect Jeff to give him some spot minutes just to see him defend and see how he looks running the floor - I'll be surprised if thats a strength, just based on his FTA.

Somewhat of a mystifying trade to me... its got to be his 3pt shooting as in no other way does he appear better than Goodwin or Warren - and dropping Randolph leaves us with only 4 players who can play PF or C.
 

Iceman

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Bullock is, so far, strictly a jump shooter and 2/3 of his shots are 3s. He gets to the line so seldom he must not drive often at all - Kendall Marshall type numbers. He's hitting 38.5% from 3, which is probably his appeal. A coach from LAC said he had good defensive potential but didn't say he was presently a good defender. I'd expect Jeff to give him some spot minutes just to see him defend and see how he looks running the floor - I'll be surprised if thats a strength, just based on his FTA.

Somewhat of a mystifying trade to me... its got to be his 3pt shooting as in no other way does he appear better than Goodwin or Warren - and dropping Randolph leaves us with only 4 players who can play PF or C.

Definitely felt like a weird trade, unless there is something more to come out of this. Should be interesting to see if there is more to the trade. Guess we shall see soon
 

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Twitter is abuzz with rumors of an impending 3 team Brook Lopez deal that would send Lopez to OKC, Jack and Lamb to Charlotte, and Stephenson and Perkins to Brooklyn.

OKC is wheeling an dealing.
 

Hoop Head

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Denver is in sell mode right now and appear to be giving up on the season. Do the Suns have anything to offer for Faried or Chandler? Not looking at contracts I'd be interested in either one provided they aren't ridiculously overpaid. Chandler could play a stretch 4 role in Phoenix much better than Kieff. He's kind of a tweener forward but has some size (6'9"), can score and shoot well from outside. Chandler rebounds about the same as Kieff does, averaging 6 even and Kieff averaging 5.9. Chandler plays SF typically but does play some PF in Denver. Playing him at PF might see an increase in rebounds? I'd prefer Faried though, playing him alongside Len would make for a nice front court defensively and on the boards. I think Denver would want more for Faried though.

Denver also has JJ Hickson, who would add depth to the front court and is a solid rebounder. I imagine he could be had fairly cheap. Something like the Morrii & Plumlee for Chandler & Hickson or Faried & Hickson might work. Might need to send a pick to Denver also, protected of course.
 

AzStevenCal

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Denver is in sell mode right now and appear to be giving up on the season. Do the Suns have anything to offer for Faried or Chandler? Not looking at contracts I'd be interested in either one provided they aren't ridiculously overpaid. Chandler could play a stretch 4 role in Phoenix much better than Kieff. He's kind of a tweener forward but has some size (6'9"), can score and shoot well from outside. Chandler rebounds about the same as Kieff does, averaging 6 even and Kieff averaging 5.9. Chandler plays SF typically but does play some PF in Denver. Playing him at PF might see an increase in rebounds? I'd prefer Faried though, playing him alongside Len would make for a nice front court defensively and on the boards. I think Denver would want more for Faried though.

Denver also has JJ Hickson, who would add depth to the front court and is a solid rebounder. I imagine he could be had fairly cheap. Something like the Morrii & Plumlee for Chandler & Hickson or Faried & Hickson might work. Might need to send a pick to Denver also, protected of course.

I just don't understand the forum's view on the twins. AFAIC, Marcus is a far better player than Hickson and a better stretch 4 than Chandler would be. But the idea of also including the far superior Markieff really throws me for a loop. I'd love to see us upgrade the power forward position but this is a serious downgrade IMO and that's without paying attention to the ages or contracts. CBS Sports for example has Markieff as the 13th best power forward, Faried is 20th, Marcus is 32nd and Hickson is the 47th best power forward this season.

Steve
 

Folster

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I just don't understand the forum's view on the twins. AFAIC, Marcus is a far better player than Hickson and a better stretch 4 than Chandler would be. But the idea of also including the far superior Markieff really throws me for a loop. I'd love to see us upgrade the power forward position but this is a serious downgrade IMO and that's without paying attention to the ages or contracts. CBS Sports for example has Markieff as the 13th best power forward, Faried is 20th, Marcus is 32nd and Hickson is the 47th best power forward this season.

Steve


Yeah, I don't see those guys as an upgrade and they don't make us better. Now if we could trade the twins for Ty Lawson, that would be great. Imagine A line-up of Thomas, Lawson, Bledsoe, Dragic, and Len!
 

AzStevenCal

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Yeah, I don't see those guys as an upgrade and they don't make us better. Now if we could trade the twins for Ty Lawson, that would be great. Imagine A line-up of Thomas, Lawson, Bledsoe, Dragic, and Len!

That's a great idea but if we start with that lineup what do we do when we want to go small? Ennis?

Steve
 
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sunsfan88

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That's a great idea but if we start with that lineup what do we do when we want to go small? Ennis?

Steve

No we could sign Nate Robinson (who is a FA now) to solve that problem.
 

Hoop Head

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I just don't understand the forum's view on the twins. AFAIC, Marcus is a far better player than Hickson and a better stretch 4 than Chandler would be. But the idea of also including the far superior Markieff really throws me for a loop. I'd love to see us upgrade the power forward position but this is a serious downgrade IMO and that's without paying attention to the ages or contracts. CBS Sports for example has Markieff as the 13th best power forward, Faried is 20th, Marcus is 32nd and Hickson is the 47th best power forward this season.

Steve

I don't know how CBS Sports ranks players but I think Faried is an upgrade over Kieff. He may not be as good offensively but he'd make up for it defensively and in rebounding. Sure Kieff can score but that's really all he does. He's not a good defender, he's a terrible rebounder for a PF, and he basically only passes to his brother. I don't think this team would miss his scoring since it could be replaced pretty easily by giving Dragic, Bledsoe, or Len more opportunities. Faried doesn't need the touches or plays that Kieff gets, he'd pick up most of his points like he has in Denver which are from put backs or easy close passes from driving guards.

Using CBS Sports rankings that you mentioned Kieff is right there in the middle when it comes to starting 4's in the league which pretty much says that he's an average player. He hasn't shown that he's a reliable option in the post or on the perimeter. If you look at his game log his consistency is limited to him getting about 10 points each night. Given the fact that neither our starting C & SF are averaging in double digits each night his scoring is almost by default. He only has 6 double doubles out of 41 starts and averages just under 6 a game. He hasn't improved his rebounding even though he's now getting more minutes and is the teams starting PF and closing C in almost every game this season. He has more technicals than double digit rebounding games, he actually leads the league with 9.

With both of their recent attitudes showing more I doubt they would handle being separated well. That locks the team into 2 players at forward for the next 4 years at 13 million per season who are average at best. I read a lot last season about those 2 being a big part of the teams chemistry but this season with all of the technicals plus decline in chemistry from last year I wouldn't be surprised if they're a larger part of that then we know. Kieff has 9 technicals and Marcus has 5, the team has 47 which is second in the league by only 1, behind the Clippers. Kieff had the best game of his career in a win against a team who has been touted as a contender in the east and blew off the reporters afterwards, Marcus thinks it's ok to yell in his coaches face when things don't quite go his way in a nationally televised game. I think it's better to move them now while they have value before they get labeled as a cancer like a Josh Smith type. The team bought out Beasley for attitude problems and they were trying to build a team with better character, I'm not saying the twins should be bought out or are at Beasley's level of foolishness yet but it's not hard to see them heading in that direction.
 

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Way to early just to cut bait on the twins.
Sounds like the Suns are keeping focus on the long term and rightfully so.

That means who is going to be a piece of a championship caliber team two years from now rather than who is going to help get to the playoffs this season.
Even if players like Faried or Hickson marginally help now ( which I don't agree with) they are older and have more likely reached their ceiling. Some rookie could be a Faried type player in 2 years and they just get him then to help push deep into the playoffs.

I like the Bullock deal because the guy is only 23 and potentially a role player on a good team even if he doesn't earn many minutes this season.
 

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