Trade talks & rumors

[devilalum]

The twins took low pay to be together. Seems like all you have to do to straighten them out is threaten to trade them to different clubs.

Actually being on different clubs might help them grow up. All these handshake agreements are nothing but trouble.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Good grief. What fickle fans. I loved Frye in our offense last year, and I thought he was a better defensive presence than most would admit.

But I also know that it would have not been wise to sign him to that contract, and no, I don't want him back. He is not part of the future of this team. His age is not compatible with the core here.

I am fine with trading the twins as part of the plan to build a championship team. I would have a big problem with just dumping them.

I do not believe there will be any big move prior to the trade deadline. We are all in with Goran. We want him back and are going to try to keep him this summer. If there are any big moves, it will be a draft time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd make the swap for the Twins & Frye straight up but Orlando knows it would need to dump some assets to drop Frye's contract and a straight trade like that would make McD look like he made the wrong choice this offseason. The assets Orlando included would be all about spinning it that we added more pieces than we lost. If they'd include Aaron Gordon with Frye I'd take that deal in place of the one with their pick. That would give us a young big to groom while Frye is the starter this year and next. Bringing Frye back might piss off a lot of the people here but he was a perfect fit for the offense, Markieff isn't putting up better numbers this year than Frye did last season. Marcus' attitude isn't worth what he brings to the table and without his brother I think he'd be overpaid and even worse. Frye would spread the floor and provide veteran leadership until someone else steps into that role. His contract isn't great but with the cap going up it's not horrible. I'd rather have Channing back than have 4 more years of the Morrii. Long term Frye is cheaper than they are per season and is only on the books for 3 years compared to 4 more with Kieff & Marcus.

BTW I was happy this offseason when Frye opted out. I didn't realize his impact was much more than the numbers showed.

I wanted to keep Frye but I wasn't devastated when we lost him. At the time I thought 8 million was a little bit of an overpayment. I no longer think that. I think 8 million for a starter is going to be very common in the next year or two. Considering how important Frye was to our offense, defense and chemistry, it's looking like a bargain to me.

I think McDonough could easily survive the suggestion that he'd made a mistake letting him go. But I don't see much reason for Orlando to pay a premium to get rid of a player. I haven't looked but I wouldn't imagine the cap offers much concern to them at this stage of their rebuild. I also think it's far too early for them to give up on someone like Gordon who already brings energy and defense if little else. Channing really doesn't do much for us in the long run (his weaknesses plus his age) but if we're really trying to make the playoffs this season, he might make the most sense.

Steve

 

[Chaz]

Good grief. What fickle fans. I loved Frye in our offense last year, and I thought he was a better defensive presence than most would admit.

But I also know that it would have not been wise to sign him to that contract, and no, I don't want him back. He is not part of the future of this team. His age is not compatible with the core here.

I am fine with trading the twins as part of the plan to build a championship team. I would have a big problem with just dumping them.

I do not believe there will be any big move prior to the trade deadline. We are all in with Goran. We want him back and are going to try to keep him this summer. If there are any big moves, it will be a draft time.

Agreed.

Unless some other team is having a fire sale I don't see any major moves before this summer.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'd trade the Twins for Frye and the unprotected 1st round pick of Orlando's. Frye makes less than they do combined and that pick could help the team either in another deal, move up, or just pick a solid player.

Yea ultimately I can't see Orlando trading that pick to dump Frye. It's not like their competing for anything anyway so clearing cap room isn't doing more for them than drafting a good rookie in the top 10.

 

[elindholm]

Agreed.

Unless some other team is having a fire sale I don't see any major moves before this summer.

But ... but ... we're stockpiling assets! The big cash-in is coming any moment now!

 

[AzStevenCal]

But ... but ... we're stockpiling assets! The big cash-in is coming any moment now!

It's easy to mock but no one has promised "soon". Maybe it will happen this year and maybe it will never happen but every rebuild scheme is risky.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

Maybe it will happen this year and maybe it will never happen but every rebuild scheme is risky.

There's a difference between "rebuilding" and "just not very good." "Rebuilding" implies a realistic hope that the roster will improve significantly, somehow, over the foreseeable future. Of the players who currently get any time, the only one whose ceiling might be substantially higher than where he is now is Len. The rest are what they are, more or less. Waiting around in the hopes that someone will trade you a dollar for five quarters isn't rebuilding. It's aimlessness.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There's a difference between "rebuilding" and "just not very good." "Rebuilding" implies a realistic hope that the roster will improve significantly, somehow, over the foreseeable future. Of the players who currently get any time, the only one whose ceiling might be substantially higher than where he is now is Len. The rest are what they are, more or less. Waiting around in the hopes that someone will trade you a dollar for five quarters isn't rebuilding. It's aimlessness.

I don't know how much more they'll improve but I do expect Keef and Bledsoe to continue to improve for a few more years. And I have no idea why we'd restrict it just to the players currently getting minutes.

Steve

 

[KloD]

Ok, I found it odd that there are people on this board that actually believe what players, coaches, and management say in the media instead of seeing it for the lip service it is. But, now were actually treating some comment from a message board as fact? Every locker room sees arguments. Every team has emotional flair ups from time to time. Now some loser on a message board makes claims to 2 brush ups in the locker room, doesn't even know who was involved, and now we should trade away the twins? Wow....

 

[Ronin]

Suns have gone WWE?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't know how much more they'll improve but I do expect Keef and Bledsoe to continue to improve for a few more years. And I have no idea why we'd restrict it just to the players currently getting minutes.

Steve

I think Bledsoe will improve. I kinda think Keef is topping out. Certainly, I hope Len will improve. I am hoping anyway. Goran is what he is. Same with Tucker.

 

[Phrazbit]

There's a difference between "rebuilding" and "just not very good." "Rebuilding" implies a realistic hope that the roster will improve significantly, somehow, over the foreseeable future. Of the players who currently get any time, the only one whose ceiling might be substantially higher than where he is now is Len. The rest are what they are, more or less. Waiting around in the hopes that someone will trade you a dollar for five quarters isn't rebuilding. It's aimlessness.

How would you describe the 4 years that Morey spent before landing Harden? He kept their roster flexible, they were not good, not bad, they stock piled picks and quality young players and guys on cap/trade friendly contracts. His patience ended up landing him two stars.

All of this whining about the team being aimless, mediocre, ect ect. What do you guys want them to do? Blow up a young team that is currently fighting for a playoff spot? It makes no sense. And given perspective from where we were in the summer of 2013 (arguably the most depressing roster situation in the NBA), I think its nuts to say this franchise has shown no direction.

 

[Chaplin]

There's a difference between "rebuilding" and "just not very good." "Rebuilding" implies a realistic hope that the roster will improve significantly, somehow, over the foreseeable future. Of the players who currently get any time, the only one whose ceiling might be substantially higher than where he is now is Len. The rest are what they are, more or less. Waiting around in the hopes that someone will trade you a dollar for five quarters isn't rebuilding. It's aimlessness.

People forget that the summer before last we were on fumes. Do people forget how we were supposed to easily be the worst in the West and challenge for worst in the entire NBA?

Instead, we traded for Bledsoe and almost got into the playoffs. After a year! And now that we've tapered off a bit (with nobody saying we are done with this "rebuild"), we are now aimless? It's ok to be dissatisfied with the current makeup of the team, but I doubt there is anyone that is ok with it as it stands now. Maybe a deal presents itself in the next month, maybe not. But we're not done and we are still a work-in-progress. Regardless of how you think a rebuild should progress, we are well ahead of schedule, but not really close to realizing the final vision.

 

[JCSunsfan]

How would you describe the 4 years that Morey spent before landing Harden? He kept their roster flexible, they were not good, not bad, they stock piled picks and quality young players and guys on cap/trade friendly contracts. His patience ended up landing him two stars.

All of this whining about the team being aimless, mediocre, ect ect. What do you guys want them to do? Blow up a young team that is currently fighting for a playoff spot? It makes no sense. And given perspective from where we were in the summer of 2013 (arguably the most depressing roster situation in the NBA), I think its nuts to say this franchise has shown no direction.

Exactly. Its what you do until the moment of opportunity comes. And you can't just make that moment happen. You have to be ready for it when it does.

However, my caveat. You cannot waste your assets either by not developing them. Its really tricky.

 

[elindholm]

Regardless of how you think a rebuild should progress

I'm always entertained when you resort to that particular rhetorical device. "Regardless of what you think, I'm right and you're wrong." Why throw in the first part? If you're just going to say I'm wrong, without actually engaging any of my points, just go ahead and do it. There's no reason to build up to it with the "Regardless of what you think" prelude. You're saying I'm wrong; I get it. If you can give reasons, maybe we could have a conversation.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm always entertained when you resort to that particular rhetorical device. "Regardless of what you think, I'm right and you're wrong." Why throw in the first part? If you're just going to say I'm wrong, without actually engaging any of my points, just go ahead and do it. There's no reason to build up to it with the "Regardless of what you think" prelude. You're saying I'm wrong; I get it. If you can give reasons, maybe we could have a conversation.

Hmm, you appear to have quoted me saying I'm right, you're wrong. I think you're off base, but so what? You think people are off base at times as well. Isn't that the point of message board discourse? Instead, you decide to directly attack me.

You accuse me of not engaging your points, yet you do the exact same thing. You accused the organization of being aimless, I refuted your claim. I'm not sure how that's not "engaging your points". The only point you made was that the roster shows that the organization has no direction.

 

[elindholm]

All of this whining about the team being aimless, mediocre, ect ect. What do you guys want them to do?

That's not a fair question. I'm not an NBA GM. If I watch a pitcher issue consecutive 4-pitch walks, I think, "He's not performing well; I bet somebody else could do better." That doesn't mean I could do better, or even that I know what the problem is. I just know enough to be able to see that he isn't getting the job done. Let the professionals figure out what the exact problem is and how to fix it. That's supposed to be what they're paid to do.

If you want specific evidence of mistakes, the clearest is the Thomas/Bledsoe situation. It seems pretty obvious that the Suns didn't have a plan with Bledsoe. After saying that they would hold firm on their offer, they caved and came up $22 million more in total contract value ($70M/5yrs vs. $48M/4). And if they knew that they were going to keep him pretty much no matter what, it made no sense to sign Thomas.

The Tolliver signing was also pretty poor. Not because he played badly for the Suns, but because his role was redundant. The last thing the Suns needed was another guy who stands at the three-point line and shoots every time he touches the ball. This board has started talking about the importance of a "stretch 4" like it's up there with getting enough riboflavin in your diet. And yes, you need people to space the floor -- but lord almighty, once you have enough, you don't need one at every single freaking position.

Finally, the most critical element to any rebuild is to build things the right way. That's where the Suns are falling the most short, no pun intended. They don't rebound, they don't communicate, they don't play as a team. They're establishing a culture of, "Every man for himself, and maybe that will be good enough to win." Well, yeah, sometimes it will be. But when's the last time the title was won by a team with poor on-court chemistry and no institutional accountability? And if your response is, "Well, they aren't a contender yet," when and how are they going to establish those values? And, more to the point, why haven't they -- after a year and a half -- made any progress toward establishing them already?

 

[Phrazbit]

That's not a fair question. I'm not an NBA GM. If I watch a pitcher issue consecutive 4-pitch walks, I think, "He's not performing well; I bet somebody else could do better." That doesn't mean I could do better, or even that I know what the problem is. I just know enough to be able to see that he isn't getting the job done. Let the professionals figure out what the exact problem is and how to fix it. That's supposed to be what they're paid to do.

I'm not talking about specifics, because I agree, we're not GMs, we don't know what is and what is not an option, I am talking about direction. That is why I followed with "do you want to blow up a young winning team?" I find all this belly aching to be strange given our expectations for the length of this rebuild as recent as summer 2013 compared to our current situation.

IMO it takes a rather negative mindset to be as angry as many on this board currently are about the status of the team.

I'm not a Thomas fan but I think on his contract he is an asset, especially with the huge cap increases coming. The only real mistake I think we've made was the Tolliver signing, a horrible effort to replicate Frye, which smacked of replacing Amare with Warrick. But Tolliver was quickly and easily dumped with no cost to the Suns.

Its a work in progress, I'm not that worried about the front office not "fixing" everything quite yet because a whole hell of a lot of repairs have already been made to the dumpster fire that this franchise was a few years back.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Finally, the most critical element to any rebuild is to build things the right way. That's where the Suns are falling the most short, no pun intended. They don't rebound, they don't communicate, they don't play as a team. They're establishing a culture of, "Every man for himself, and maybe that will be good enough to win." Well, yeah, sometimes it will be. But when's the last time the title was won by a team with poor on-court chemistry and no institutional accountability? And if your response is, "Well, they aren't a contender yet," when and how are they going to establish those values? And, more to the point, why haven't they -- after a year and a half -- made any progress toward establishing them already?

If this is the case, and I am not sure it is to the extent that you say, the key additions to last year's squad (that had great chemistry and played great team ball) are IT and Bledsoe.

 

[Phrazbit]

If this is the case, and I am not sure it is to the extent that you say, the key additions to last year's squad (that had great chemistry and played great team ball) are IT and Bledsoe.

Bledsoe was here last year, and they raved about the chemistry while he played.

I think the exit of Frye has created a leadership void, I think Thomas is a bit of a cancer and I think Green is out there playing for himself and his next contract while last year Green was trying to rehabilitate his image, now he thinks that part is done and wants to get paid.

I think Green is a serious problem on both ends of the court. That is one move I want to see done ASAP. We'd be much better off without him. I know unless we got a big or a "true SG" people are going to complain about us getting smaller, but Green plays at the height of a throw rug defensively and unless he is white hot on offense he hurts us on that end too... and I think there is very little chance the Suns are going to pay him this summer.

I'd be fine with the Suns shipping off both Green and Thomas in one deal, getting picks and bringing in a veteran guard from somewhere.

 

[hcsilla]

I think the exit of Frye has created a leadership void, I think Thomas is a bit of a cancer and I think Green is out there playing for himself and his next contract while last year Green was trying to rehabilitate his image, now he thinks that part is done and wants to get paid.

I'd be fine with the Suns shipping off both Green and Thomas in one deal, getting picks and bringing in a veteran guard from somewhere.

I agree with your evaluation about Green but the Suns will have a very hard time to get a veteran guard and picks for him and Thomas unless they give up the play-off hunt at the same time.

After the season I would offer IT, Plumlee, Bullock and the Suns pick for the Knicks pick (let's say it is #3).

It's always extremely difficult to acquire a top pick but maybe the Knicks would be a partner since their next season's roster is basically empty outside of Anthony, an old and overpaid PG in Calderon and a young ballhog in Hardaway Jr.

 

[Sunburn]

How would you describe the 4 years that Morey spent before landing Harden? He kept their roster flexible, they were not good, not bad, they stock piled picks and quality young players and guys on cap/trade friendly contracts. His patience ended up landing him two stars.

All of this whining about the team being aimless, mediocre, ect ect. What do you guys want them to do? Blow up a young team that is currently fighting for a playoff spot? It makes no sense. And given perspective from where we were in the summer of 2013 (arguably the most depressing roster situation in the NBA), I think its nuts to say this franchise has shown no direction.

It's like you're in my head, only you articulate my thoughts better than I can. I pretty much always agree with you.

 

[Phrazbit]

It's like you're in my head, only you articulate my thoughts better than I can. I pretty much always agree with you.

Then I wish you'd post more .

Lately I feel like there are only a few posters here who don't have a totally negative view of the state of the franchise. Which, at least in my case, is a serious reversal from a 3 years ago when I was one of the more furious people on here.

 

[Chaplin]

Then I wish you'd post more .

Lately I feel like there are only a few posters here who don't have a totally negative view of the state of the franchise. Which, at least in my case, is a serious reversal from a 3 years ago when I was one of the more furious people on here.

Agreed. I am actually neither happy nor upset at the state of the team. Ever since Nash left I've had a hard time identifying with these players, although I'm closer now than I've ever been. Part of that is living out of town with very little access to actually watch the games (I don't have cable anymore).

But honestly, it does seem strange to me how negative this place is over a team that is still a work-in-progress that happens to be winning. I think a good majority of people here want us to be a 76er-level of bad. But one thing about that is that we aren't used to being that bad, and it's not like a single draft pick can cause a complete turnaround. Just ask Minnesota, Philadelphia, Charlotte and other teams that have been bad for a VERY long time. Tanking is about as much a guarantee for success as what we're doing now is.