Two DEN/PHO trade proposals

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's the problem. NONE of these trade proposals anyone makes ever come true. Sure, it's nice to try to figure it out to make yourself looks smart, but when you look at reality--well, you're not looking at reality...

Why aren't trade proposals also parts of the reality?

I'm pretty sure that also GM's are permantly considering, listening, making, rejecting and sometimes accepting trade proposals.

The most of the REAL proposals don't come through.But they are however real.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Why aren't trade proposals also parts of the reality?

I'm pretty sure that also GM's are permantly considering, listening, making, rejecting and sometimes accepting trade proposals.

The most of the REAL proposals don't come through.But they are however real.

This is true but not after the TRADE DEADLINE...... This tread sucks Camby sucks, Denver Sucks, Don't forget what happed with McDicks that year. I will never ever ever agree to any deal or trade that would help or even involve Dever. Why does this tread keep going why o-why.

PS> PHX ROCKS DENVER SUCKS

 

[Chaplin]

Then why don't you say: Googs and a first for Marcus Camby? Instead, you add all this stuff about protection and years and incentives... without accurately addressing exact dollar amounts.

Then you...

Start in on the "what if" scenarios...

IF the first trade happens, THEN they could do this...

IF that happens, THEN they could do this...

IF even that happens, THEN they could go ahead and try this...

That isn't realistic at all. It's interesting, but unrealistic.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Hcsilla, I really can't understand why Phoenix would do that.

I already tried to explain at least 3 times.Which part don't you understand?

If I were a GM, I would want to keep Googs and just let his contract expire.

And after?

I would try to make a trade involving our first rounder to get a veteran player or two, or move up in the draft, but I would not touch Marcus Camby.

You wouldn't while I think that the healthy Camby and cap relief next season are definitely worth a 1st rounder.

How would you move up in the draft?
Who would you move up for?

I'd much rather try to make a sign and trade deal with Minessota for Rasho Nesterovic, using our first rounder, Cleaveland's protected first rounder, Jake Tsakalidis and whatever else it takes.

Me too because I really like Nesterovic's consistent, versatile and matured C-play (plus he improved every year).

But why would MIN trade (as a contender team) their 2nd best big-man for draft picks and/or worse players?
Who would be the filler from the Suns?
Plus Suns would have to take more salary because Nesterovic will become a BYC player.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by SweetD
This is true but not after the TRADE DEADLINE...... This tread sucks Camby sucks, Denver Sucks, Don't forget what happed with McDicks that year. I will never ever ever agree to any deal or trade that would help or even involve Dever. Why does this tread keep going why o-why.

PS> PHX ROCKS DENVER SUCKS

SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SweetD
This is true but not after the TRADE DEADLINE:

Please finally realize that this trade would happen after 1st July 2003!

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla

You wouldn't while I think that the healthy Camby and cap relief next season are definitely worth a 1st rounder.

Marcus Camby has NEVER proven that he can stay healthy. Period. Why trade damaged goods for damaged goods who has a longer contract?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Marcus Camby has NEVER proven that he can stay healthy.

He missed about 20 games or less before his hip injury in 2002.

Why trade damaged goods for damaged goods who has a longer contract?

It's interesting that I already explained it 4 times but you want to hear it again and again.

OK so one more time:
Because there is still a hope that DEN's damaged goods can play well again and because the less salary of DEN's damaged goods gives 4.5 mil cap relief and saves at least 9 mil. for Suns next season.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Then why don't you say: Googs and a first for Marcus Camby?

Because I wanted to be accurate.

But I wasn't accurate enough, you (with the year of the pick) and elindholm (with Googs' trade kicker) corrected me and both you were right.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by hcsilla
He missed about 20 games or less before his hip injury in 2002.


It's interesting that I already explained it 4 times but you want to hear it again and again.

OK so one more time:
Because there is still a hope that DEN's damaged goods can play well again and because the less salary of DEN's damaged goods gives 4.5 mil cap relief and saves at least 9 mil. for Suns next season.

Not only does the trade SUCK but you need to make sure it works with the CBA first Please use the trade checker on Realgm before making BS trade suggestions. If you are related to Camby I understand your pasion to see him more. Please LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker.php

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by hcsilla
I already tried to explain at least 3 times.Which part don't you understand?


And after?

After what? The goal is to get rid of Googs contract. It expires and the problem is solved. It's not like we are losing much. Amare is going to be a superstar playing 40 minutes a night, I am sure we can find a PF to play for 8 minutes.

Originally posted by hcsilla
You wouldn't while I think that the healthy Camby and cap relief next season are definitely worth a 1st rounder.

Camby can not stay healthy. He is fragile. Was there ever a season when Camby was healthy for 70% of the season? I can't remember one.

Originally posted by hcsilla
How would you move up in the draft?
Who would you move up for?


Me too because I really like Nesterovic's consistent, versatile and matured C-play (plus he improved every year).

But why would MIN trade (as a contender team) their 2nd best big-man for draft picks and/or worse players?
Who would be the filler from the Suns?
Plus Suns would have to take more salary because Nesterovic will become a BYC player.

I don't know how I would move up and who I would move up for.
I don't know how I'd pry Rasho out of Minesota. I would ask what they want for Rasho, they'd probably demand more than I was willing to offer, then I'd try to make a compromise, get another team involved, and see what happens.

If nothing can be worked out, draft Nick Collison, sign Jimmy Jackson, maybe Damon Jones, solve my problem as far as back -up PF, SF, maybe PG go, add some depth, and be ok on four out of five positions. Then hope Jake develops into something half way decent and buy Scott Williams a fountain of youth.

I'd go after those players who I believe could help my team, and Camby is ceirtanly not one of them.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SweetD
Not only does the trade SUCK but you need to make sure it works with the CBA first Please use the trade checker on Realgm before making BS trade suggestions. If you are related to Camby I understand your pasion to see him more. Please LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!!!!!!

You are not only agressive but also ignorant.

This trade works under the cap after 1st July because DEN will be under the cap so they can swallow the difference between Googs' and Camby's salary.
realgm.com's trade checker uses this season's salaries and cap spaces

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
After what? The goal is to get rid of Googs contract.

No,my goal was to use Googs' contract and one of our future picks for improving our C spot.

Camby can not stay healthy. He is fragile. Was there ever a season when Camby was healthy for 70% of the season?

Yes,there was.
He was healthy for 70% of the season in seasons 96/97,97/98,98/99, 99/00 and 00/01.

If nothing can be worked out, draft Nick Collison, sign Jimmy Jackson, maybe Damon Jones, solve my problem as far as back -up PF, SF, maybe PG go, add some depth, and be ok on four out of five positions.

I wanted to solve our C problem.
Collison isn't a C and although he is a nice player I don't really see how could he got PT behind Amare and with Outlaw and Gugliotta on the roster.

I'd go after those players who I believe could help my team, and Camby is ceirtanly not one of them.

I disagree, the healthy Camby is exactly that type of player who we need at C.
Considering what would we give for him in this trade proposal I definitely would take this gamble.
We simply couldn't lose much with this trade.

 

[SweetD]

What are the rules involved in trading players? There are many rules that teams must follow when trading players. These rules, like many others, revolves around whether or not the teams involved are over or under the salary cap. Here are several of the rules:

A player's trade value is the same as his actual salary unless he is a BYC Player or his contract runs through his 36th Birthday in which different rules apply. For BYC Players, the trade value for the team trading them is often lower than the trade value to the team receiving them (the same player has two different values in the same trade). For players who have contracts running through their 36th Birthday, their trade value is higher than their actual salaries, but remains the same value for both the trading team and the receiving team. Future draft picks have no trade value.
A team may trade for players having less trade value than the trade value of the players they are trading without restriction.
A team may trade for players having more trade value than the trade value of the players they are trading without restriction only if:
The team is under the cap and the net result of the trade value keeps the team within $100,000 of the salary cap.
A team is subject to the 15% Rule if:
The team is under the cap and the net result of the trade value pushes them more than $100,000 over the salary cap, or
The team is technically over the cap and trades for players having more trade value than the trade value of the players they are trading.
The team is actually over the cap and trades for players having more trade value than the trade value of the players they are trading.
The 15% Rule. If a team is subject to the 15% Rule, the trade value they receive must not exceed $100,000 of the trade value of the players they are trading times 1.15. [Trade value receiving less than or equal to (Trade value outgoing * 1.15) + $100,000]
BYC Rules. If a team is trading a player who is a BYC player, the trade value that they are trading is less than the actual salary of that player. There are two groups of BYC Players, Full and Partial BYC Players.
Full BYC Players have their outgoing trade value set at the greater of 50% of their current salary. Full BYC Players have their receiving trade value as their actual salary.
Partial BYC Players have their outgoing trade value set at 75% of their previous year's salary. Partial BYC Players have their receiving trade value as their actual salary.
Cash Considerations in Trading. Teams may include cash considerations in a trade, cash of up to no more than $3,000,000. However, this sum is not used when applying the trade rules so it cannot be used to help teams meet the 15% Rule, etc. The bigger market teams try to use cash considerations to trade up draft picks with smaller market teams or to induce a small market team take on players with large salaries. The limit of $3,000,000 is there so that the large market teams cannot "buy" their way in a trade.


THE TRADE STILL SUCKS, You sure are taking this personal.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SweetD


A team may trade for players having more trade value than the trade value of the players they are trading without restriction only if:
The team is under the cap and the net result of the trade value keeps the team within $100,000 of the salary cap.

Thanks for posting this.

This rule is the reason why this trade would work.

 

[SweetD]

I am all for trading TO MAKE THE TEAM better, but IMO Camby is another Soft Center and we realy don't need Camby's contact in exchange for Googs. We are only going to be over the cap.... IF we don't trade Penny or Googs for one year. Let bring this tread up at the end of the year. Just don't take it so personal.

PS> Yes you are right I am sure Dever would love to use all there cap space for us to move Googs.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SweetD
I am all for trading TO MAKE THE TEAM better, but IMO Camby is another Soft Center and we realy don't need Camby's contact in exchange for Googs. We are only going to be over the cap.... IF we don't trade Penny or Googs for one year. Let bring this tread up at the end of the year. Just don't take it so personal.

Camby is tough, good defending-shotblocking C he isn't soft.

We already over the cap and we will be over the cap until Penny's contract expires.

Just try to be a little bit more intelligent especially if you don't know what you are talking about and I won't take it so personal.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SweetD

THE TRADE STILL SUCKS, You sure are taking this personal.

No,I'm not.

You are entitled your opinion (although you could express it a bit more intelligent) but calling a trade proposal to BS because you don't know the trade rules is just ignorant.

I don't take it personal I simply just state the fact.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla

Yes,there was.
He was healthy for 70% of the season in seasons 96/97,97/98,98/99, 99/00 and 00/01.

So what? If Penny Hardaway or McDyess were still on the Nuggets, would you trade for them on the hope that they MIGHT lose their injury problems?

You don't trade an injury problem for an injury problem with a longer contract. It's that simple.

And coming back with, "Well, he MIGHT be healthy," isn't even close to a valid excuse when we're discussing millions of dollars.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin
So what? If Penny Hardaway or McDyess were still on the Nuggets, would you trade for them on the hope that they MIGHT lose their injury problems?

You don't trade an injury problem for an injury problem with a longer contract. It's that simple.

And coming back with, "Well, he MIGHT be healthy," isn't even close to a valid excuse when we're discussing millions of dollars.

Right, exactly!

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
So what? If Penny Hardaway or McDyess were still on the Nuggets, would you trade for them on the hope that they MIGHT lose their injury problems?

Poor examples.

And coming back with, "Well, he MIGHT be healthy," isn't even close to a valid excuse when we're discussing millions of dollars.

I don't know if it's a "valid excuse" (if it's reasonable at all to talk about one of the points of the proposal as an excuse) or not.
That's why I posted this idea.

I think that taking several millions for the hope that a good player (who would fit very well) will be healthy again and for the better balancing of 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 team pay-rolls would be good for the Suns.

You didn't like this proposal and I still do.

 

[SweetD]

This is starting to sound a lot like the great John "Hot Rod" Williams trade. A proven player if healthy that would fit right into the Suns game "The missing piece". OOPS!

If you want a center that will fit look at Curry in Chicago now that is someone I could see giving up some 1st rounder for. He is young not completely developed, but would fit in nice. Or try to go after Swift.(Smaller Contract and would fit much better in the teams style).

Camby was and still maybe good just may not be the best option for the Suns. Goog's contract is going to be very attractive to allot of team next year, especially the ones that don't want to win and are looking for a quick contract to dumb at the end of the year.

 

[elindholm]

The Gugliotta/Camby trade is utter fantasy. I suppose it's still debatable whether it would be a good idea or not, but I think we'd all agree it has zero chance of happening.

Or try to go after Swift.

I like the idea, but the Suns would have to get in line behind several other teams. Since Gooden was traded, Swift's playing time has gone up. It's been even greater recently with Lorezen Wright out of the lineup (his daughter died). Swift is starting to put up some very nice numbers, and I'm wondering whether he's finally working his way out of West's/Brown's doghouse.

I'll be quite interested to see what happens to Swift's minutes when Wright returns -- and specifically whether he gets parked at the end of the bench again should he happen to have one or two bad games. And if West does try to move him (again) this offseason, I think a lot of teams will be interested, based on his recent play. What would the Suns offer? What do they have that Memphis wants?

Swift and Brevin Knight for Outlaw and Joe Johnson? I'm not sure either side would like that trade. If Memphis thinks Johnson can play PG they might go for it, since it would save them some money. Would it be worth it for the Suns?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Poor examples.

Why? They're all chronically injured. What makes you think there is a chance that any of those guys would stay injury-free for a long length of time? At least, I'm discussing Camby's penchant for injury, maybe you aren't...

 

[SirStefan32]

How about we ship Shawn Marion to Orlando for Grant Hill, and Jake Tsakalidis to NY for Dice,?