Warner To Start Against Seattle

Pariah

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Wild Card said:
Pariah:

Kurt Warner's the player you want as your backup QB.
I agree, but if I have to chose between 2 backups for a starter, I'll go with Warner. I want someone on the field as a starter that can make the right reads. Warners problem isn't that he can't handle the mental aspect of the game, these days it's the physical.
 

clif

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LVCARDFREAK said:
Hehas had his chance to right the shipp and he failed. Not just this year but last year as well. You people amaze me. You act as if Josh has had zero chances. Has it ever occurred to you that he would be starting if he showed some consitency? If he showed that he can actually read a defense?

Hell if he was as good as some of you think he is some other team would have come in and signed him away from the RFA contract he received this off season.

What the hell do you mean you people? Who? People who actually want our QB debacle settled? People who don't want freakin retreads as QB's? People who don't want QB's living more off their past glory rather than current production?


Why is it that guys like P manning, david carr, Drew Brees to a lesser extent, Carson Palmer, Harrington, Hasselback,..etc get year after year to start and suck and a kid like McCown get a quick hook? Hell even ryan leaf got more career starts than Josh. THe point being that you need time to grow up in this league. You don't just walk into this league and play at a high level.

I swear I wish we draft a QB high next year so we would actually be "forced" to play him rather than play QB roulette.
 

CardNots

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abomb said:
This is an awesome stance. I too would prefer someone to put up 2 TDs, 2 Ints and 240 yards per game, even if we lost every one. Oh wait, I guess we had that guy...Jake Plummer. ;)

A-Bomb

You forget the comment about the 2 Ints were returned for touchdowns. We start most games down 14-0 with Plummer. By the way, the 2 TDs were accomplished against the prevent defense which ate up the remaining time of the game.
 

Rats

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AZCB34 said:
The unanswered question, I think, is does this change REALLY make a difference in the end product?

No. Denny will just have a death on his hands when SEA kills Kurt and McCown will come off the bench, look like crap and a thread will be started touting the concept of starting Navarre to "see what he has".

Sadly, this is a non-issue to the team winning because I fear this will make absoultely no difference.
I think that we may have seen the last of McCown. If Kurt sucks and loses the next two.....We are in Detroit again and Navarre may get the nod. No one is going to be all pro behind this line...i just hope that Kurt is adequete and with his quick release he gets better play calling to utilize it. Dump the ball off more and let JJ scamper. Use the TE more and then in the redzone give the ball to Fitz.....Kurt can do these things if healthy. And the OLine gives him time. I really don't want to go back to Navarre this season...let him develop.
 

abomb

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AZCB34 said:
Are people going to be pissed at Kurt if he leads the Cards to 2-3 more wins and pushes the Cards away from Reggie Bush or Leinart...as mad as some were at Josh for beating MIN?

I think people were less pissed about Josh winning that game, it was just the stab in the heart that the single last play of the last game on the season is what cost us the #1 pick. Rarely does one play amount to such a change in fortunes.

A-Bomb
 

Pariah

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clif said:
What the hell do you mean you people? Who? People who actually want our QB debacle settled? People who don't want freakin retreads as QB's? People who don't want QB's living more off their past glory rather than current production?
You want to live off of current production? Warner's and McCown's numbers are every similar.

Warner has completed 64% of his passes (64/101) for an average of 6.89 yards per pass (696 total). Kurt has thrown 2 picks.

McCown has completed 55.9% of his passes (104/186) for an average of 6.63 yards per pass (1233 total). Josh has thrown 8 picks.

Kinda stands to reason that if Warner throws as many balls as Josh, he'll have more yards and more completions.
 

conraddobler

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When you are 2-5, you should try something new.

But why announce it?

Make them prepare for Josh and then start Warner, of course you can tell our team and all but if they have to prepare for a moblie QB it could mess them up a little.

Certainly as much as it would Tenn if not more.


This is good though, the world needs to see that we are not just some solid QB play away from greatness.

We stink with Josh, with Warner, Navarre or the waterboy.

I'll be shocked if we win this game but we do play better at home.

We also paid all that money to Kurt, might as well see what he's got left and how it fits our team while we can.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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clif said:
What the hell do you mean you people? Who? People who actually want our QB debacle settled? People who don't want freakin retreads as QB's? People who don't want QB's living more off their past glory rather than current production?


Why is it that guys like P manning, david carr, Drew Brees to a lesser extent, Carson Palmer, Harrington, Hasselback,..etc get year after year to start and suck and a kid like McCown get a quick hook? Hell even ryan leaf got more career starts than Josh. THe point being that you need time to grow up in this league. You don't just walk into this league and play at a high level.

I swear I wish we draft a QB high next year so we would actually be "forced" to play him rather than play QB roulette.

If McCown would show 1/2 of what any of the QB's mentioned above had there would be no coaching descions to be made. I too want this QB carousel to end, and it should. I dont think Warner is the answer but neither is McCown. To compare him to guys like you mentioned is absurd. They all showed the ability to get the job done, read defenses, look downfield, and avoid the rush, yet Josh in his 4th season still cant do that.

I will give you this, McCown and Harrington are about on par. whatever good that is. :shrug:

Warner gives the Cardinals the best chance to win. PERIOD. I can tell you for sure Green and company dont think the "season is over" and thats why they dont keep people like you and that defeatist attitude around. They want to win and starting Warner gives them the best chance. Now in the off season, we can address the QB situation, but right now McCown is on the bench where he belongs.!
 

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LVCARDFREAK said:
Warner gives the Cardinals the best chance to win. PERIOD.

Yeah, a 2% chance of winning is better than a 1% chance. Honestly, until they fix the offensive line and running game, Brett Favre would have trouble winning behind a line as bad as ours.


Oh wait...
 

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Rats said:
No...we are 2-5 chief....4-4.. Josh started Sf, Car, Tenn,Cowgirls...Kurt got the first 3....pay attention.... :D


Josh has 4 starts Kurt has 3 as I said. How do you get 2-5?

As you say

Josh Sf, Car, Tenn,Cowgirls
Kurt first 3

4-3.

Will be 4-4 after Sunday.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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vince56 said:
Yeah, a 2% chance of winning is better than a 1% chance. Honestly, until they fix the offensive line and running game, Brett Favre would have trouble winning behind a line as bad as ours.


Oh wait...


I may be drinking tons of Koolaid here, but with more than half the seaon left I am not ready to "throw in the towel" . It is a long seaosn and injuries happen to lots of teams.

The oline sucks but maybe they gell this week? Who knows, but a win versus Seattle is not anywhere near out of the realm of possibility. :shrug:
 

clif

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Pariah said:
You want to live off of current production? Warner's and McCown's numbers are every similar.

Warner has completed 64% of his passes (64/101) for an average of 6.89 yards per pass (696 total). Kurt has thrown 2 picks.

McCown has completed 55.9% of his passes (104/186) for an average of 6.63 yards per pass (1233 total). Josh has thrown 8 picks.

Kinda stands to reason that if Warner throws as many balls as Josh, he'll have more yards and more completions.

Ahh but you also leave out one important stat and that is TD's. Josh 6.. Kurt 1

Those numbers further illustrate my point.. there is no clear indication that Warner at age 34 is anymore productive than Josh at 26. So... it pretty much sums up what alot of people have been saying.. QB is NOT the problem with this team, but it appears to be the ONLY one that sees changes every other week.

Why not stay with the the younger guy?
 

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hasselbeck had similiar problems early on in his career ... crap OL, some raw receivers, etc

he got the hook and got injured ... both times giving the job to dilfer

dilfer was even named the starter going into a season, but an injury to trent early on put matt in the game and he learned enough to stay there

i think part of the problem with josh is coaching ... dilfer worked really well with him and zorn is a good QB coach ... not to mention MH who can help with the QBs when he isn't tearing them down

josh has some mechanical things going on with him and it also seems like the game is going very fast for him as well .. i think he can turn it around, but how long is an acceptable wait time?
 

LVCARDFREAK

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clif said:
Ahh but you also leave out one important stat and that is TD's. Josh 6.. Kurt 1

Those numbers further illustrate my point.. there is no clear indication that Warner at age 34 is anymore productive than Josh at 26. So... it pretty much sums up what alot of people have been saying.. QB is NOT the problem with this team, but it appears to be the ONLY one that sees changes every other week.

Why not stay with the the younger guy?


Well one thing really stand out Clif and that is the fact that Warner is completing at almsot a 10% clip more passes than Josh. That alone answers your question. Warner gives the Cards the best chance to win football games! That is what we want right? To win?
 

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MigratingOsprey said:
josh has some mechanical things going on with him and it also seems like the game is going very fast for him as well .. i think he can turn it around, but how long is an acceptable wait time?

That brings up an interesting point I forgot to make. McCown takes FOREVER to get out from under center. right when the ball is snapped he dips his shoulders before pulling back from under center. He does it about 80% of the time. I cant figure it out, but the rush is on him as soon as he gets back into his last step of the drop.
 

conraddobler

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clif said:
Ahh but you also leave out one important stat and that is TD's. Josh 6.. Kurt 1

Those numbers further illustrate my point.. there is no clear indication that Warner at age 34 is anymore productive than Josh at 26. So... it pretty much sums up what alot of people have been saying.. QB is NOT the problem with this team, but it appears to be the ONLY one that sees changes every other week.

Why not stay with the the younger guy?


You have to admit, those who talk up all the other QB's got no where to hide now...

I'm laughing thinking about how they are going to explain losses when logic dictates it's impossible because of the higher completion percentage.

I've said all along that DG has no faith in Josh, never really did which makes him talking the kid up all the more laughable last year.

I gotta think that kind of dog and pony show would wear on the owners as the losses mount up.

Kurt Warner, meet your doom.

Sigh.
 

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conraddobler said:
When you are 2-5, you should try something new.

But why announce it?
Because it upsets alot of people on this board. Denny is just trying to help out those Fantasy Football fanatics.
 

clif

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If McCown would show 1/2 of what any of the QB's mentioned above had there would be no coaching descions to be made.

This arguement is so ********. So you're saying that Josh who threw for 783 yards in 2 games (over 350 in each and had he done that the next would have set an NFL record ) has not shown half the ability of the other QB's.??? You're kidding right? If that is truely how you feel then there is no point in debating this with you, because you are living in a fantasy world. How many picks did Peyton throw his first year starting? No one is comparing the abilities of the above mentioned QB's to Josh... I am referring to the fact that they all were given the benefit of the doubt more times than this kid.

I too want this QB carousel to end, and it should. I dont think Warner is the answer but neither is McCown.

No arguement there, but why continually switch back and forth like a pair of underwear?


To compare him to guys like you mentioned is absurd. They all showed the ability to get the job done, read defenses, look downfield, and avoid the rush, yet Josh in his 4th season still cant do that.


Again no one is comparing Josh's abilites to the other's listed.
So the 396 yards against 49ers was all dump offs? How about the 383 against the Panthers? How many td passes when to running backs? Yeah it's soooo obvious he can't read defenses.... especially since he audibled into the TD pass to Fitz in the Panthers game :rolleyes:

I will give you this, McCown and Harrington are about on par. whatever good that is. :shrug:

Warner gives the Cardinals the best chance to win. PERIOD.

Win what? 1 or 2 games? Whoop!!

I can tell you for sure Green and company dont think the "season is over" and thats why they dont keep people like you and that defeatist attitude around. They want to win and starting Warner gives them the best chance. Now in the off season, we can address the QB situation, but right now McCown is on the bench where he belongs

Yeah and like my opinion makes a difference on how the team performs.
 

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Wild Card said:
Kurt Warner's the player you want as your backup QB. Great attitude, coach on the sidelines, fresh arm when he has to go in, and experienced enough to be a quick study in limited reps with the first string. And while he may not have been content with that role in New York in 2004, he may have a different mindset in 2006. No one plays forever, and only the elite QBs are good enough to remain starters until the day they hang it up.

You couldn't ask for a better guy to play Jon Kitna to whoever the Cardinals draft as their version of Carson Palmer. I just hope that the Cards front office can make it happen.
Pariah said:
I agree, but if I have to chose between 2 backups for a starter, I'll go with Warner. I want someone on the field as a starter that can make the right reads. Warners problem isn't that he can't handle the mental aspect of the game, these days it's the physical.

Pariah:

I meant that I want Kurt Warner as the backup next year. If this season plays out the way I expect, and the Cardinals are able to acquire a true blue-chip prospect through trade or the draft, I can't think of anyone better than Warner to mentor him and start on an interim basis.

The other piece of the puzzle will be having an adequate third-stringer in reserve in case Warner gets hurt and the new guy's not ready. That'll either be Navarre--who I hope to see get one or two starts before the end of the season--or some career back-up playing elsewhere this year.

McCown's the odd man out. Let him get a fresh start with a new team, and good luck to him. Time to move on.

WC
 

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LVCARDFREAK said:
Well one thing really stand out Clif and that is the fact that Warner is completing at almsot a 10% clip more passes than Josh. That alone answers your question. Warner gives the Cards the best chance to win football games! That is what we want right? To win?

I could care less what percentage he is completing passes at.. I want Touchdowns which hopefully will equal wins.

Hey but if you want to use that stat sure.. go ahead, but I don't think it is any secret that teams have game planned around our only weapons more in the last few weeks as opposed to earlier in the season therefore causing more incompletions.
 

conraddobler

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clif said:
I could care less what percentage he is completing passes at.. I want Touchdowns which hopefully will equal wins.

Hey but if you want to use that stat sure.. go ahead, but I don't think it is any secret that teams have game planned around our only weapons more in the last few weeks as opposed to earlier in the season therefore causing more incompletions.


Yeah welcome back Kurt, we can't run, lines a sieve and btw one half our WR core has a bone bruise..

Go gettem TIGER.
 

clif

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Wild Card said:
Pariah:

I meant that I want Kurt Warner as the backup next year. If this season plays out the way I expect, and the Cardinals are able to acquire a true blue-chip prospect through trade or the draft, I can't think of anyone better than Warner to mentor him and start on an interim basis.

The other piece of the puzzle will be having an adequate third-stringer in reserve in case Warner gets hurt and the new guy's not ready. That'll either be Navarre--who I hope to see get one or two starts before the end of the season--or some career back-up playing elsewhere this year.

McCown's the odd man out. Let him get a fresh start with a new team, and good luck to him. Time to move on.

WC


People keep making that assumption. What makes you think Warner wants to mentor younger QB's. He has never shown that. If he wants to hold a clipboard, why didn't he stay in New York?
 

Russ Smith

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clif said:
This arguement is so ********. So you're saying that Josh who threw for 783 yards in 2 games (over 350 in each and had he done that the next would have set an NFL record ) has not shown half the ability of the other QB's.??? You're kidding right? If that is truely how you feel then there is no point in debating this with you, because you are living in a fantasy world. How many picks did Peyton throw his first year starting? No one is comparing the abilities of the above mentioned QB's to Josh... I am referring to the fact that they all were given the benefit of the doubt more times than this kid.

I suspect he was referring more to draft status. Right or wrong there's a reason most of those guys you mentioned were drafted a lot higher than Josh.

Josh had the height, had the size, had the speed, had the arm, had the bloodlines(father a coach, brothers who played). But for some reason with all that going for him he had one good year in college, after transferring down to Sam houston State, and that's why he wasn't picked higher.

I just a few weeks ago was googling on Rohan Davey, right after we signed him, and found an old Senior Bowl report that Gil Brandt wrote about Davey. BEcause Davey and Josh were in the same draft and closely bunched together, he wrote about both of them.

He said both guys were asked to make a few mechanical adjustments and then throw, Davey really struggled, didn't want to do it, did, but looked bad doing it. Josh was eager to do what they wanted, made the changes, and looked OK. But he then said what struck him was the next drill was an accuracy and touch passing drill and he said Davey was dramatically better at it than Josh was. He said repeatedly Josh fired the ball high and when asked to throw touch passes he really struggled. His conclusion was that while Davey didn't like making the changes, he did and tried to make it work in the next drill. Josh willingly made the change in THAT drill, but immediately reverted back to his normal throwing motion in the next drill completely not getting that the point of the exercise was your mechanics cause you to be inaccurate, high, and we want to see if you can change that or not.

It struck me here we are several years later and Josh is still throwing high all the time. I suspect that what Brandt wrote then is at work to this day, Josh really WANTS to get better, but for some reason he just can't. You can tell him everyday for 4 years but he will still just wing it on the field and throw high over and over. Moore was all over for him on Sunday said he needs to be able to figure that out because nothing is worse than a QB who misses high.
 

Russ Smith

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clif said:
People keep making that assumption. What makes you think Warner wants to mentor younger QB's. He has never shown that. If he wants to hold a clipboard, why didn't he stay in New York?


He probably doesn't but we know for a fact he is, we all saw and heard him doing it during the 49er game. Will he come back next year, who knows he says he wants to, but he wants to start we all know that.
 
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