Warner To Start Against Seattle

[clif]

No matter who we start, we won't be any closer to the QB of the future--unless you're talking about tanking games for draft position. McCown is not going to suddenly become that guy. He isn't that guy right now, and he won't be after another 9 starts.

I just don't see how you can guys can continually say that without hesitation. How can anyone fully expect a QB to develop if he is continually yanked from the lineup every other week?

Last year Josh was pulled after 9 starts and then gets to play mop up duty for the final 4 games.

He gets to ride the bench this year.. comes in and after 4 games get yanked again?? How can anyone say with any conviction how this guy will turn out?

People continually rip the previous regime for poor coaching. Then rip the current regime for poor coaching but can turn around and say for certain that Josh just doesn't learn and reverts to poor mechanics, decisions, and what not. Where is the consistency in that arguement? Who is at fault? Why does the losing persist?

At some point you got to make an investment in a QB and stick with them more than a few weeks. Hey if that means drafting a QB and letting him take his lumps then so be it. McCown may be better off finding a new team that will give him a chance to compete. I am just tired of these retreads (Warner, King, Blake.. etc) and the continuos QB carousel. We need a young QB to grow with this team. Not a stop gap.

 

[Russ Smith]

a running QB has to learn or be taught to throw a bit differently. Spacing is different, foot plant is different, arm position is different.
Now I'm NOT saying Plummer isn't a beneficiary of the system, BUT, the system works around him. AND if you go back and look at his old Cards games and compare them to what he's dpoing now, you'll see a difference in his mechanics. He blows it when he regresses. But, watch him. Tell me you don't see a difference. Don't come back with the running game argument. That's already a given.
The line and play calling are to Plummer's strengths, and watch the difference between where he is when he lets go, his body and foot mechanics and arm position now, as compared to then.
Some of you are much better at breaking down film than me so I KNOW you'll see it.
McCown could be a victim of poor coaching AND his own regressions.

True but the difference is even JAKE admits that he works a lot harder in Denver than he did here, he didn't go to offseason workouts, he didn't spend weeks working with assistants on his mechanics. Every year he's been there they've had a QB 101 training session with him they write about it every year, how they're reminding him that he can't slack off.

Everything I read says Josh works his butt off, I don't think his problem is simply lack of extra effort like it was with Jake.

 

[Pariah]

I just don't see how you can guys can continually say that without hesitation. How can anyone fully expect a QB to develop if he is continually yanked from the lineup every other week?

Last year Josh was pulled after 9 starts and then gets to play mop up duty for the final 4 games.

He gets to ride the bench this year.. comes in and after 4 games get yanked again?? How can anyone say with any conviction how this guy will turn out?

Is your arguement FOR McCown really going to be that he keeps getting benched?

At some point you got to make an investment in a QB and stick with them more than a few weeks. Hey if that means drafting a QB and letting him take his lumps then so be it. McCown may be better off finding a new team that will give him a chance to compete. I am just tired of these retreads (Warner, King, Blake.. etc) and the continuos QB carousel. We need a young QB to grow with this team. Not a stop gap.

I agree. That's why for the last 3 years I've been a proponent of drafting a QB in the draft to fill that position: Leftwich (if we were set of passing on Suggs), Roethlisberger, and just this past year I wanted Frye in the second (I wouldn't have blinked if they took Rogers in the 1st, either).

 

[clif]

Is your arguement FOR McCown really going to be that he keeps getting benched?
I agree. That's why for the last 3 years I've been a proponent of drafting a QB in the draft to fill that position: Leftwich (if we were set of passing on Suggs), Roethlisberger, and just this past year I wanted Frye in the second (I wouldn't have blinked if they took Rogers in the 1st, either).

My arguement is that you can't keeping benching a young QB every time he has a bad game. You need to continue to give them chances to grow and learn. Yes at some point you need to pull the plug if he isn't getting it, but you gotta believe its more than 12 starts one year and 4 the next.

 

[Pariah]

you gotta believe its more than 12 starts one year and 4 the next.

Why? He's earned his way OUT of the starting position each time. It's not like he's gotten hurt and someone has come in to play better--he's just not played well enough to keep his job.

Enough is enough.

 

[moklerman]

I don't know the circumstances in McCown's other years but this year he was showing steady and rapid decline with each game. I don't know if it was pressure he put on himself or what the problem was but coaches usually stick with a qb when they're showing some kind of improvement. McCown seemed to get worse every game.

 

[conraddobler]

It's not a big deal.

The team sucks, Josh wasn't flashing much of anything so they changed QB's mostly it just means that they suck and are flailing.

 

[clif]

I don't know the circumstances in McCown's other years but this year he was showing steady and rapid decline with each game. I don't know if it was pressure he put on himself or what the problem was but coaches usually stick with a qb when they're showing some kind of improvement. McCown seemed to get worse every game.

It's called game planning. When other teams figure out that you can't run the ball.. they game plan to stop your passing attack.

Geez!

 

[Pariah]

It's called game planning. When other teams figure out that you can't run the ball.. they game plan to stop your passing attack.

Geez!

What, teams didn't know we couldn't run the ball when McCown got his first start? Don't kid yourself--Teams gameplanned against the pass from day 1.

 

[clif]

What, teams didn't know we couldn't run the ball when McCown got his first start? Don't kid yourself--Teams gameplanned against the pass from day 1.

Did you read any of the post game quotes from the Carolina game when Fox and the players admitted that they started doubling Fitz and Boldin in the second half?

What do you think Tennessee did the next week?

Dallas? Hell they played the run on their way to the QB.

Teams played the cards more honest at the beginning of the year, but for the last few weeks after watching film they realized we can't run whatsoever so they decided to just double Fitz and Q every game. No wonder the QB play went down.

 

[Pariah]

Honestly, clif? You're Josh arguements held water until this one. All previous arguements had enough merit to where I could see where you're coming from, but to say that only in the last 2-3 games have teams been playing the pass first is stupid.

 

[clif]

All I am saying is stopping our passing game is now the primary objective of our opponents defense whereas before it was only half the objective. Teams played us more honestly thinking we might be able to run.. whereas now there is no doubt that we can't.

That is all I saying.. no more no less.

 

[Pariah]

All I am saying is stopping our passing game is now the primary objective of our opponents defense whereas before it was only half the objective. Teams played us more honestly thinking we might be able to run.. whereas now there is no doubt that we can't.

That is all I saying.. no more no less.

And, all I'm saying is that's crap. after the first 3 games nobody respected our run. It is most certainly NOT a reason for Josh's declining numbers with each passing game.

 

[clif]

And, all I'm saying is that's crap. after the first 3 games nobody respected our run. It is most certainly NOT a reason for Josh's declining numbers with each passing game.

Well then sir what would be your reason? He all of a sudden just can't hit open receivers? We all know he isn't accurate as alot of Qb's, so that didn't just start being a problem the last 2 weeks. He can't read defenses? Some say he can't, but he didn't see to have a hard time finding the open man against the Panthers. He can't see the rush? He made a few moves to step up in the pocket here and there and audibled into a TD the week before.

Come on... which one is it?

Give me a logical reason how you can throw for 783 and then only throw for 301 the next 2 and it NOT be influenced by a) more focus being made by your opponent on your passing game or b) lack of a consistent running attack?

Same players ..same offense.

 

[Pariah]

Well then sir what would be your reason?

He's wildly inconsistent, and overall, not very good.

He's an exceptional athlete, and so he's able to tease us with a great game now and again, but ultimately he's just that: a tease.

 

[joeshmo]

Some say he can't, but he didn't see to have a hard time finding the open man against the Panthers.

Sorry Clif but that is nothing to hang your hat on in this arguement.

A lot of QB's dont seem to have a hard time finding their open man against the Panthers. They are the 26th ranked pass D in the league. The other team he shredded was against a injury riddled 32nd ranked pass D allowing 70 % of their passes to be completed. And when we played the Panthers they had one of the worst pass rushes in the league with a Peppers who still this season only has 1 sack and has been stinking up the joint compared to the hype he gets, the guy is having a slump or is injured either way he stinks this year. I mean Wakefield held him in check and we all gave him props and thought he was the answer only to find out he is a fake at RT.

Then the next 2 weeks we play against 2 top 15 pass D's and McCown doesnt do much of anything.

 

[AzCards21]

Let's go Kurt! I just want to walk out of SDS a winner. That's all that matters.

 

[clif]

Sorry Clif but that is nothing to hang your hat on in this arguement.

A lot of QB's dont seem to have a hard time finding their open man against the Panthers. They are the 26th ranked pass D in the league. The other team he shredded was against a injury riddled 32nd ranked pass D allowing 70 % of their passes to be completed. And when we played the Panthers they had one of the worst pass rushes in the league with a Peppers who still this season only has 1 sack and has been stinking up the joint compared to the hype he gets, the guy is having a slump or is injured either way he stinks this year. I mean Wakefield held him in check and we all gave him props and thought he was the answer only to find out he is a fake at RT.

Then the next 2 weeks we play against 2 top 15 pass D's and McCown doesnt do much of anything.

That's fine Joe, but everyone pretty much stated oh well lets see what he does against a real defense in Carolina... so he goes and lights it up and then what... well they're not a good defense... let's just face it.. the guy is doomed here. He hasn't gotten a fair shake no matter how you slice it so I for one wish him the best next season with a new team.

I hope like heck we find a new QB to lead this team for years to come, but I'm fearful we will waste way too much time on retreads like Kurt Warner. This time next year we will still be in the same boat wondering who will be leading this team going into the following year. Never ending Qb shuffle.

 

[jstadvl]

Actually Clif has a point

Teams DID start playing us a bit differently. They were shooting the gaps ALL the time. They were blitzing form two or three angles at the same time.
They really did play us differently then the first four games.
Now was it a major difference? Not to the naked eye, but yea. Watch the Titan game, compare it to the Giants game. Watch the Dallas game and compare it to the Seattle game.
Teams are starting to throw everything into the runninglanes and blitz from the outside plust get their normal pressure from their DE's. It's different scheming or the intensity level has been raised on those parts of their game.

 

[AzCards21]

Teams DID start playing us a bit differently. They were shooting the gaps ALL the time. They were blitzing form two or three angles at the same time.
They really did play us differently then the first four games.
Now was it a major difference? Not to the naked eye, but yea. Watch the Titan game, compare it to the Giants game. Watch the Dallas game and compare it to the Seattle game.
Teams are starting to throw everything into the runninglanes and blitz from the outside plust get their normal pressure from their DE's. It's different scheming or the intensity level has been raised on those parts of their game.

Our offensive intesensity has to beat their defensive intensity. Until that happens we're screwed.

 

[earthsci]

Teams DID start playing us a bit differently. They were shooting the gaps ALL the time. They were blitzing form two or three angles at the same time.
They really did play us differently then the first four games.
Now was it a major difference? Not to the naked eye, but yea. Watch the Titan game, compare it to the Giants game. Watch the Dallas game and compare it to the Seattle game.
Teams are starting to throw everything into the runninglanes and blitz from the outside plust get their normal pressure from their DE's. It's different scheming or the intensity level has been raised on those parts of their game.

This next game we need to scheme against that. JJ at least 25 times.

 

[Russ Smith]

Teams DID start playing us a bit differently. They were shooting the gaps ALL the time. They were blitzing form two or three angles at the same time.
They really did play us differently then the first four games.
Now was it a major difference? Not to the naked eye, but yea. Watch the Titan game, compare it to the Giants game. Watch the Dallas game and compare it to the Seattle game.
Teams are starting to throw everything into the runninglanes and blitz from the outside plust get their normal pressure from their DE's. It's different scheming or the intensity level has been raised on those parts of their game.

Maybe they figured out Josh couldn't beat that style of defense?

 

[joeshmo]

That's fine Joe, but everyone pretty much stated oh well lets see what he does against a real defense in Carolina...

Who cares what everyone said, I said it before the game and I am saying it now, the fact remains they are not a good pass D. Its as simple as that.

 

[moklerman]

Who cares what everyone said, I said it before the game and I am saying it now, the fact remains they are not a good pass D. Its as simple as that.

I think there were a few of us who said the same thing. It seems the perception of the Carolina D is a lot better than the D itself. I don't follow them too closely but there has been a marked decline in their play this year. For example, Julius Peppers, who seemed unstoppable not that long ago, only has 1 sack this year and I'm pretty sure he isn't injured.

In any case, McCown threw for some good yardage against Carolina but didn't exactly shine. If anything, that was the beginning of his downward spiral. The two no first down drives to end the game were where is struggles this year started. After that, he's never reclaimed the rhythm he seemed to show in Mexico.

 

[jstadvl]

Our offensive intesensity has to beat their defensive intensity. Until that happens we're screwed.

That's the whole point. Until we, man for man, play by play, match and move it up a notch, against anyone, it can't be one player's fault.
I think that's what Clif and a few other's are saying. Clif's made some good points, as have some other's on the McCown wagon. AND, I can't believe I'm saying this, so have the McCown tramplers (yes SWD your one of them lol). However, the bottom line to this, as you and I have stated, is it DON"T MATTER! Get behind whoever is our starting QB and let the dirty diapers go out with trash when the season is over. No matter who's wearing them.
C"MON, this is OUR team! Let's Rock and Roll!( no hanson 32, just kidding)
Let's get behind our O and our D and let's let the chips fall where they may.
Can someone make a sign that reads "INTENSIFY" for the game?
Don't say me, I have enough trouble typing.