Warner To Start Against Seattle

[RugbyMuffin]

1st off: To fight about this is ridiculous. We are all thinking about this way too much. Warner was the starter, he got hurt, and now he is 100% so now he is in. You really think it is a good idea putting a in-mobile QB that is not at a 100% behind our line. Warner was always the starter I don't think there was ever a time he was not. The only reason Josh has been playing is because Warner was not 100%

2nd: Josh McCown should not be surprise. Dennis Green is known for pulling QB's at will. He knows why he is not going to start, and as I said before I don't think he was ever the starter to begin with.

3rd: It does not matter WHO is behind our current OLine. Put any quarterback behind our line and he will not be able to accomplish jack.

Once again to talk about wether our running backs, or quarterbacks are good or not is a waste of time. Our offensive line is p!ss poor and until that is fixed NOBODY is going to do anything on offense.

Just ask Ahman Green, and Brett Farve how easy it is to play without anyone to block for you. Ask David Carr, and Dominic Davis too.

The 2005 Cardinals suck, deal with it.

Go see my poll, and start betting on stuff. It makes the game more fun.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Boy you missed the point didn't you.

I guess so...lets just agree to disagree!

 

[moklerman]

A couple of things that should be mentioned. First, how much can anyone really assume from the limited time Warner has played for the Cardinals? The first two games of the year are not really a good indicator of anything. Even if he'd stunk it up, which he didn't, I think there needs to be a little time given for rapport.

Also, why is there such a perception of Warner being injured? He wasn't injured in 2003 or 2004.

Lastly, everyone who's salivating over Bush coming to the Cardinals need to realize that he may not even declare for the draft this year. He's still a junior, right? If the Card's aren't getting Bush then I don't think they should utilize a top 5 pick other than to trade down and draft smart more often.

Also, spilt milk over Roethlisberger or Manning is ludicrous. Neither of them would be what they are right now (maybe Manning, but he has a good/great running game helping him out there) if they had come to Arizona. I think we'd all be talking about them in the same breath as Patrick Ramsey.

 

[joeshmo]

Your're right... so how can we assume what he's being taught?

Turn about is fair play.

Why are you assuming that he hasnt been taught.

Russ has already proven in one of the almighty (if it isnt written about it must not happen) articles/stories, that he takes real well to teaching but doesnt apply it all to well. So has he fixed that, only one could assume.

 

[Pariah]

The silence is deafening

Didn't see the question, actually.

He's also the same guy who's given us arguably the best draft in the franchise history (time will tell). Fitz, Dansby, Dockett and Step all from one draft is pretty good. He's arguably had another very good draft for us in the most recent outing.

Could he screw up with a QB selection? Sure he could. But, is that a reason not to try?

 

[Renz]

The silence is deafening

Who said anything about "blind faith"? IMO Warner is the best QB we have.

Dennis Green is our coach and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least for another season after the debacle he inherited from McGinnis.

 

[Pariah]

Also, spilt milk over Roethlisberger or Manning is ludicrous. Neither of them would be what they are right now (maybe Manning, but he has a good/great running game helping him out there) if they had come to Arizona. I think we'd all be talking about them in the same breath as Patrick Ramsey.

I'm sick of the arguement that Leftwich, Manning or Roethlisberger wouldn't be the same QB here as they are with their respective teams. No, they wouldn't have the same number of wins under their belts for us, but they're GOOD QBs. If we follow this logic, we shouldn't take good QBs because they won't win as many games here as they would elsewhere. Since when are we in the business of worrying that other teams might not win as many games?

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm talking from a local perspective. Not a national one. Sure a #1 pick working on mechanics would be a big story.

Point being that you implied in your earlier post that Josh panics and just slings the ball and forgets his mechanics.. well that of course could be true, but to that I am saying where is the evidence he has actual been taught proper mechanics? We all agree the previous coaching staff sucked..so why would it be a foregone conclusion that they were actually teaching anything?

Well I went to the game in SF a few years ago when Josh was a rookie. That was the game where Jake threw 3-4 picks, we got way behind, rallied behind Shipp, and then Jake threw another pick to end the comeback.

Before the game we were watching all the QB's in throwing drills and we were marveling at how much stronger Josh's arm was than Jake's, but he had a hitch in his delivery, he was really inaccurate, and his release was a lot slower than Jake's was. Rich Olson was the OC then and Olson was a former QB coach and in fact was the 49ers QB coach last year and is the Vikings QB coach this year. He was down on the field watching all the QB's and he was constantly talking to Josh so I assume at least that year he got coaching. I'm sure he did last year between Green and our QB coach.

I guess given Green's rep as a QB guru, its' hard for me to just accept that Josh isn't being coached, but we're seeing examples all over the team of poor coaching so it's certainly possible.

I just think there are guys all the time who have all the athletic ability in the world, but just can't do it on the field. As I said several times last year, josh reminds me of Rob Johnson, Rob fooled me, that's one of the reasons I always was suspicious of Josh. If you were to build a QB from scratch it'd be hard to find a better physical one than Rob johnson, size, arm, running speed, son of a coach, brother of a college QB, if ever there was a guy who should have been a great QB it was Rob Johnson. But he just lacked something, he could not deal with a pass rush, the rush would come, he'd stand in there waiting for someone to break open, and get hit over and over and the more experienced he got, the more he got sacked.

I just think Josh has a similar block, when the game gets tough and people are flying around, I think Josh just forgets what he's been taught.

Again if I were Green I'd start Josh right now, we know Warner's a stopgap, but I do understand that maybe Green thinks Warner is his last ditch attempt at the playoffs. He's hoping to catch a redhot Warner and ride him, like he did Jeff George in 99.

 

[AZCB34]

I have a headache

 

[D-Dogg]

My head hurts. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I know people say that and don't always mean it--but I really mean it. This makes zero sense to me.

They have a bet on who will start more games, roughly, between Josh and Kurt. I think it's a jersey bet.

 

[conraddobler]

Well I went to the game in SF a few years ago when Josh was a rookie. That was the game where Jake threw 3-4 picks, we got way behind, rallied behind Shipp, and then Jake threw another pick to end the comeback.

Before the game we were watching all the QB's in throwing drills and we were marveling at how much stronger Josh's arm was than Jake's, but he had a hitch in his delivery, he was really inaccurate, and his release was a lot slower than Jake's was. Rich Olson was the OC then and Olson was a former QB coach and in fact was the 49ers QB coach last year and is the Vikings QB coach this year. He was down on the field watching all the QB's and he was constantly talking to Josh so I assume at least that year he got coaching. I'm sure he did last year between Green and our QB coach.

I guess given Green's rep as a QB guru, its' hard for me to just accept that Josh isn't being coached, but we're seeing examples all over the team of poor coaching so it's certainly possible.

I just think there are guys all the time who have all the athletic ability in the world, but just can't do it on the field. As I said several times last year, josh reminds me of Rob Johnson, Rob fooled me, that's one of the reasons I always was suspicious of Josh. If you were to build a QB from scratch it'd be hard to find a better physical one than Rob johnson, size, arm, running speed, son of a coach, brother of a college QB, if ever there was a guy who should have been a great QB it was Rob Johnson. But he just lacked something, he could not deal with a pass rush, the rush would come, he'd stand in there waiting for someone to break open, and get hit over and over and the more experienced he got, the more he got sacked.

I just think Josh has a similar block, when the game gets tough and people are flying around, I think Josh just forgets what he's been taught.

Again if I were Green I'd start Josh right now, we know Warner's a stopgap, but I do understand that maybe Green thinks Warner is his last ditch attempt at the playoffs. He's hoping to catch a redhot Warner and ride him, like he did Jeff George in 99.

He'd have more success if he could bring the entire 99 team back to give it a whirl than he will have with this group.

 

[wembley88]

What price Warner finishing against Seattle?

 

[moklerman]

No, they wouldn't have the same number of wins under their belts for us, but they're GOOD QBs. If we follow this logic, we shouldn't take good QBs because they won't win as many games here as they would elsewhere.

I'm not saying those guys should or shouldn't have been drafted but I've seen Roethlisberger for example, make all the same boneheaded plays that rookie qb's make and if he was in Arizona doing it, he would likely be labled a bust by many. He and Manning have very strong support from different areas of their respective team's that they wouldn't have (all things being equal) here in Arizona. Until that support is in place, drafting a talented qb is going to be fruitless. Plummer is a good example. He's a talented qb but didn't have the type of coaching/support he needed to be continually successful. Even though he was a seasoned veteran when he went to Denver, it's still taken him over a year in the system to get to the status he's at now.

 

[arthurracoon]

Good choice.

 

[Evil Ash]

I'm not saying those guys should or shouldn't have been drafted but I've seen Roethlisberger for example, make all the same boneheaded plays that rookie qb's make and if he was in Arizona doing it, he would likely be labled a bust by many. He and Manning have very strong support from different areas of their respective team's that they wouldn't have (all things being equal) here in Arizona. Until that support is in place, drafting a talented qb is going to be fruitless. Plummer is a good example. He's a talented qb but didn't have the type of coaching/support he needed to be continually successful. Even though he was a seasoned veteran when he went to Denver, it's still taken him over a year in the system to get to the status he's at now.

:golfclap:

Sometimes people obsess with the QB position to an unheard of level. The game is based on more than just one player ... always has been Otherwise Dan Marino would have 10 SB rings, he instead has 0

Am I saying that Josh is completely excused from his mistakes or that he is certainly the QB of the future? Absolutley not.

I just find it difficult to judge a QB when our Oline can't block to save their lives, we have no running game, we haven't learned how to pick up a blitz, our TEs have basically no use, etc. Its always a team sport not just when its convenient for people

 

[Stout]

Well if the problem is mechanical, then why in GOD's name wouldn't someone be out there working on his mechanics? I have never once heard anyone mention that they were working on his mechanics in any year he has been in the NFL.

If that is the issue, then we cheated ourselves because we never put him in the best situation to succeed.

What if coaches have worked on his mechanics, as it is almost certain they have, and he simply doesn't get it. Look, I'm fairly good at backyard football. I'm an awesome QB and a good pass rusher. I can't cover for crap. I jam at the line, but I don't have the footwork to follow the receiver out of that jam. I KNOW my own abilities, and no matter how much coaching I would get, I'd NEVER be able to do it well enough to cover adequately. So what if Josh is the same way with his mechanics? Not saying it IS so, but I am saying, given Russ' examples, it is likely.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not saying those guys should or shouldn't have been drafted but I've seen Roethlisberger for example, make all the same boneheaded plays that rookie qb's make and if he was in Arizona doing it, he would likely be labled a bust by many. He and Manning have very strong support from different areas of their respective team's that they wouldn't have (all things being equal) here in Arizona. Until that support is in place, drafting a talented qb is going to be fruitless. Plummer is a good example. He's a talented qb but didn't have the type of coaching/support he needed to be continually successful. Even though he was a seasoned veteran when he went to Denver, it's still taken him over a year in the system to get to the status he's at now.

Of course he makes mistakes, all QB's do, especially young ones. He just makes far fewer than the typical QB with his experience does.

But in his first 425 passing attempts(roughly a normal season of attempts since people keep complaining that he throws the ball so little in Pittsburgh) he has 28 TD's 13 INT's, 41 sacks, 60 passes over 20 yards, 13 over 40, a combined rating of 102.5 and the team is 18-1 in his 19 starts.

At some point people are going to have to stop saying anybody could do that on that team, the fact is Maddox couldn't do it the year before Ben got there, was 1-1 last year when he got hurt, and is 0-1 this year.

So in the last 2 1/2 seasons the Steelers are 18-1 when Ben starts, and 7-12 when Maddox starts, so we have conclusive PROOF that not anybody could do it because Maddox can't on the same team.


For comparison sake Eli Manning has now thrown 422 passes, 19 TD 14 INT, 25 sacks, 35 passes over 20 yards 8 over 40 rating of 70.4. Manning's YPA is 6.17, Ben's is 8.95.

The Giants averaged 4.5 YPC last year and 4.8 YPC this year, the steelers, 4.0 last year, 3.9 this year. Last year the Steelers were a vastly superior team and rushed for 154 YPG to 119 for NY, this year it's 131 for Pittsburgh, 130 for NY.

So Ben has been sacked more, the team averages less YPC, and yet he still has a higher %, MUCH higher YPA, MUCH higher QB rating in near identical attempts and people are still trying to say he's just in good situations?

I just don't buy it.

 

[Assface]

Any QB can look good when he has an all pro RB like Willie Parker behind him...

 

[Pariah]

Of course he makes mistakes, all QB's do, especially young ones. He just makes far fewer than the typical QB with his experience does.

But in his first 425 passing attempts(roughly a normal season of attempts since people keep complaining that he throws the ball so little in Pittsburgh) he has 28 TD's 13 INT's, 41 sacks, 60 passes over 20 yards, 13 over 40, a combined rating of 102.5 and the team is 18-1 in his 19 starts.

At some point people are going to have to stop saying anybody could do that on that team, the fact is Maddox couldn't do it the year before Ben got there, was 1-1 last year when he got hurt, and is 0-1 this year.

So in the last 2 1/2 seasons the Steelers are 18-1 when Ben starts, and 7-12 when Maddox starts, so we have conclusive PROOF that not anybody could do it because Maddox can't on the same team.


For comparison sake Eli Manning has now thrown 422 passes, 19 TD 14 INT, 25 sacks, 35 passes over 20 yards 8 over 40 rating of 70.4. Manning's YPA is 6.17, Ben's is 8.95.

The Giants averaged 4.5 YPC last year and 4.8 YPC this year, the steelers, 4.0 last year, 3.9 this year. Last year the Steelers were a vastly superior team and rushed for 154 YPG to 119 for NY, this year it's 131 for Pittsburgh, 130 for NY.

So Ben has been sacked more, the team averages less YPC, and yet he still has a higher %, MUCH higher YPA, MUCH higher QB rating in near identical attempts and people are still trying to say he's just in good situations?

I just don't buy it.

But, we suck. We shouldn't draft a QB because we suck. Don't you get it? We suck. The sucky quarterbacks fit in better here.

 

[Red Hawk]

OK Class can any count how many wins the Cards have with McCown starting this year? ....1......2.


And how many wins with Warner starting?...................................


There is one word that describes Warner career 'as a Cardinal' which is all I give a damn about not past glory. LOSER

These pathetic ifs and buts about so called good losses and bad wins are garbage.

If Warner starts he BETTER START WINNING!!!!!!

THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stout]

OK Class can any count how many wins the Cards have with McCown starting this year? ....1......2.


And how many wins with Warner starting?...................................


There is one word that describes Warner career 'as a Cardinal' which is all I give a damn about not past glory. LOSER

These pathetic ifs and buts about so called good losses and bad wins are garbage.

If Warner starts he BETTER START WINNING!!!!!!

THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right. Because Warner plays special teams. Because the line play wasn't light years behind even last week's pathetic display. Because everything was SO much better in Warner's short stint

It's sooo funny. Josh jockers get all uptight when people don't give him more than FOUR YEARS to prove himself, or over fifteen starts. Yet they decide that Warner, who started only a handful of games, is simply a LOSER.

Josh stepped in and beat the 9ers. Okay. He also spotted them 7 points almost SINGLEHANDEDLY. Kurt did that when?

They've both played badly and they've both played all right this year. It's Kurt's turn again. At least give him some time before you jump his case, okay? If he sucks, I'll say he sucks. At least give him a shot. The supposed 'Josh bashers' gave Josh a shot. Reciprocate.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

OK Class can any count how many wins the Cards have with McCown starting this year? ....1......2.


And how many wins with Warner starting?...................................


There is one word that describes Warner career 'as a Cardinal' which is all I give a damn about not past glory. LOSER

These pathetic ifs and buts about so called good losses and bad wins are garbage.

If Warner starts he BETTER START WINNING!!!!!!

THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and that's all of what, two and half games? One with a center thats now doing construction work?

It's not exactly like we got a real good look at Warner.

He needs to play well. Who knows, he might have another year left in him.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

But, we suck. We shouldn't draft a QB because we suck. Don't you get it? We suck. The sucky quarterbacks fit in better here.

LOL

That's funny. But seriously, Michael, Rod, and Denny need to step up like men during the offseason and definitively address the QB position.

 

[red desert]

So... what will be the excuse next week when we lose 30-13??

Jeez. Always so negative.

 

[Red Hawk]