Warner To Start Against Seattle

MaoTosiFanClub

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Evil Ash said:
:golfclap:
Shocking you agree considering you and moklerman both shamelessly jock your favorite sorry QB.

These threads always make me laugh. It really doesn't matter who starts at QB, how our defene plays determines whether we win or not because neither of these guys is worth a crap.
 

jstadvl

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Stop The Insanity

C'mon, Warner starts. We need to get behind whoever is at the helm.
I'll be at that game screaming my ass off for him, period.
We need a win, period.
We don't want him to get hurt, but with this O line, it's very possible,period.
McCown will make a good back up, as he was slated at the beginning of the year, period.
Look, would I like to see McCown get the nod and become a very good QB?
Yes I would. However, I'm a Cardinal fan and I'm hoping Warner gets it done for us.
Who the better of the two is doesn't matter anymore. Green made his choice.
Now, let's go fry some seahag!
I can't believe I'm trying to be a voice of reason in this thread. LOL.
 

arthurracoon

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jstadvl said:
C'mon, Warner starts. We need to get behind whoever is at the helm.
I'll be at that game screaming my ass off for him, period.
We need a win, period.
We don't want him to get hurt, but with this O line, it's very possible,period.
McCown will make a good back up, as he was slated at the beginning of the year, period.
Look, would I like to see McCown get the nod and become a very good QB?
Yes I would. However, I'm a Cardinal fan and I'm hoping Warner gets it done for us.
Who the better of the two is doesn't matter anymore. Green made his choice.
Now, let's go fry some seahag!
I can't believe I'm trying to be a voice of reason in this thread. LOL.

:raccoon: :raccoon: :raccoon:
 

CaliCards

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Neither McCown nor the rest of the team is going to respond well with this type of Qb carousel. In the last three years, this team doesn't seem to ever have enough time to rally around one Qb.

While I do subscribe to the idea that Warner shouldn’t lose his job because of injury, I don't see the need to put him in now and bench McCown.

Neither McCown nor the rest of the team is going to respond well with this type of Qb carousel.

If the Cards lose against the Seahawks, I have a feeling that most of the team will just show up on Sundays to collect their paychecks.
 

Evil Ash

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Shocking you agree considering you and moklerman both shamelessly jock your favorite sorry QB.

Some of us live in reality by watching other NFL games from an objective point of view and then comparing it in reality that is the Cardinals. Some people don't believe in the myth of the all powerful, infallible franchise QB because we see those defined "franchise" Qbs that fail to hit wide open WRs also.

Some of us see a winning percentage of over 60% for teams that have a 100 yard rusher while teams that have a QB throw over 300 yards in a game have a winning percentage of around 30%. If the QB is the only important or most important position how is that possible? Odd how that outdated stat (FROM LAST YEAR) is forgotten isn't it?

Some of us don't conveniently forget stats that disprove our point. Remember how franchise QBs can overcome a pisspoor running game comment you made, then why wasn't Favre's performance this last week mentioned? He's too old? He's done it before so he's excused? What? Nope its just a matter of it going against your point. Isn't it odd that there are excuses for guys like Favre but not for someone on our own team?

I also pointed out the mediocre play of QBs leaguewide last year and I was just ignored. There is no spinning a 83 median average QB rating and how I was continually told how great the QB play was leaguewide (it was horsecrap then and its still horsecrap now)

Some of us don't change their perception and definition of what a QB should do when it is convenient for them. First its about wins then its about stats and its then changed around to whatever proves their side of the argument for that given week.

Some of us don't use the term "winning in spite of" when no other QB has won and then ignore other instances in the league where a game is won in spite of a QBs play (ie The Eagles win over San Diego)

Some of us realize that there are 3 parts to an NFL team's game ... offense, defense, and special teams.

Some of us also realize that the QB is just one player in one part of the game and is not considered a demigod

Some of us don't forget that a 1st round franchise QB hasn't won a Superbowl in around 8 years and last year was the first time one participated in 7

Some of us listen to Ron Jaworski about how the average length of a QB to "get it" and develop in the NFL is 6 years. Some of us also understand that people learn and develop at different speeds

Some of us prefer to wait to see who will be available in the draft and where the team is drafting before declaring an unnamed QB to be the one that will save us. We also later ask crazy questions like if they will fit into our offense or not before saying "draft him"

I can go on for hours but there is no point because just like last year and the "Shaun King will save us" debacle some people just will not get it or prefer to simply ignore it. Some people want to convince themselves that their team is one player away and often pick the most overhyped position in the NFL to put all that blame into.

Its just their choice. Yes the QB is an important position but he's not the only player on the team. Football is a team sport things rely heavily on other things and more than a player. If the Oline doesn't block then the QB has less time to go through his reads and might miss the open WR, if the RB is ineffective the playaction fake will fool no one, if the WR runs the wrong route it leads to an INT or incompletion, if the QB throws to the wrong spot it leads to the same thing, etc

Look all of us want the QB position settled. Not all of us believe in the hype of the position.

If there is a QB that is available after the fixing of the Oline and Dline and that fits into our offense, I have no problem with us taking them. However I don't see the QB position as the utter most important need for this team.

BTW I have not jocked McCown by calling him the QB of the future or anything. I said he "might be" but like with many arguments about the QB position, things are conveniently forgotten.
 
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SpokaneCardfan

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TheCardFan said:
Lets see...

Kurt NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP.

Josh...beat Minny to screw us out of drafting Manning.

I am pretty sure Kurt has done more with his chances... :sarcasm:


I would have been extremely happy if either one of these guys was the answer at QB for the next 2-3 years...but they are not
:soapbox:


If Josh lost that game he would have lost his career and he knew it . :barf:
 

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Russ Smith said:
Before the game we were watching all the QB's in throwing drills and we were marveling at how much stronger Josh's arm was than Jake's, but he had a hitch in his delivery, he was really inaccurate, and his release was a lot slower than Jake's was.


I've been saying this since last year. He dips his right shoulder and brings the ball from down low to up high and then throws.
 

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jstadvl said:
C'mon, Warner starts. We need to get behind whoever is at the helm.
I'll be at that game screaming my ass off for him, period.
We need a win, period.
We don't want him to get hurt, but with this O line, it's very possible,period.
McCown will make a good back up, as he was slated at the beginning of the year, period.
Look, would I like to see McCown get the nod and become a very good QB?
Yes I would. However, I'm a Cardinal fan and I'm hoping Warner gets it done for us.
Who the better of the two is doesn't matter anymore. Green made his choice.
Now, let's go fry some seahag!
I can't believe I'm trying to be a voice of reason in this thread. LOL.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I totally agree. I am a JM fan, but for my own selfishness. Not because he seems like a nice guy, not because he has blond hair. Because if he turns out to be a good QB ...the cards win. Thats the most important thing to me. Dont get me wrong I'll be the biggest KW fan as there is this week-end. But for the long term success of the cards I hope JM is the man.
 
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cardpa

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WisconsinCard said:
I've been saying this since last year. He dips his right shoulder and brings the ball from down low to up high and then throws.

So what this really means is our QB coach isn't able to evaluate and correct the flaws in McCown. Just another instance where the problems on this team point right back to the coaching staff. I really believe that the difference between the successful teams and the also rans has more to do with the coaching staff than the players.

It all comes down to how well the coaches can evaluate and correct deficencies and bad habits in individual players in order to improve their abilities.

Yes talent has an impact however the difference between the top players at their position and the others is not as great as one may believe.

The other biggest factor is the "intestinal fortitude" (a favorite quote of Mick Foley) of the player to work to be the best they can be at the position they are playing and how satisfied they are with where they are at.
 

Stout

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cardpa said:
So what this really means is our QB coach isn't able to evaluate and correct the flaws in McCown. Just another instance where the problems on this team point right back to the coaching staff. I really believe that the difference between the successful teams and the also rans has more to do with the coaching staff than the players.

Or it means he CAN'T correct the flaws himself. Good lord, why do some people refuse to see both sides of the fence? I tend to think it is McCown's inability to develop rather than coaching, but I can at least acknowledge that it may be he hasn't been coached properly. Why make this blanket assumption? This completely flawed blanket assumption? As Napoleon Dynamite would say, 'hhhhhhhhhhh'.
 

jstadvl

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Tell me Stout

that you didn't really watch that horrid movie from beginning to end.
 

40yearfan

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cardpa said:
So what this really means is our QB coach isn't able to evaluate and correct the flaws in McCown. Just another instance where the problems on this team point right back to the coaching staff. I really believe that the difference between the successful teams and the also rans has more to do with the coaching staff than the players.

It all comes down to how well the coaches can evaluate and correct deficencies and bad habits in individual players in order to improve their abilities.

Yes talent has an impact however the difference between the top players at their position and the others is not as great as one may believe.

The other biggest factor is the "intestinal fortitude" (a favorite quote of Mick Foley) of the player to work to be the best they can be at the position they are playing and how satisfied they are with where they are at.

I agree 100% Cardpa and that doesn't just hold true for the QB position. :thumbup:
 

john h

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CaliCards said:
Neither McCown nor the rest of the team is going to respond well with this type of Qb carousel. In the last three years, this team doesn't seem to ever have enough time to rally around one Qb.

While I do subscribe to the idea that Warner shouldn’t lose his job because of injury, I don't see the need to put him in now and bench McCown.

Neither McCown nor the rest of the team is going to respond well with this type of Qb carousel.

If the Cards lose against the Seahawks, I have a feeling that most of the team will just show up on Sundays to collect their paychecks.

I am so confused! I am still rallying around Jim Hart. When did he leave? Josh who?
 

john h

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Evil Ash said:
Some of us live in reality by watching other NFL games from an objective point of view and then comparing it in reality that is the Cardinals. Some people don't believe in the myth of the all powerful, infallible franchise QB because we see those defined "franchise" Qbs that fail to hit wide open WRs also.

Some of us see a winning percentage of over 60% for teams that have a 100 yard rusher while teams that have a QB throw over 300 yards in a game have a winning percentage of around 30%. If the QB is the only important or most important position how is that possible? Odd how that outdated stat (FROM LAST YEAR) is forgotten isn't it?

Some of us don't conveniently forget stats that disprove our point. Remember how franchise QBs can overcome a pisspoor running game comment you made, then why wasn't Favre's performance this last week mentioned? He's too old? He's done it before so he's excused? What? Nope its just a matter of it going against your point. Isn't it odd that there are excuses for guys like Favre but not for someone on our own team?

I also pointed out the mediocre play of QBs leaguewide last year and I was just ignored. There is no spinning a 83 median average QB rating and how I was continually told how great the QB play was leaguewide (it was horsecrap then and its still horsecrap now)

Some of us don't change their perception and definition of what a QB should do when it is convenient for them. First its about wins then its about stats and its then changed around to whatever proves their side of the argument for that given week.

Some of us don't use the term "winning in spite of" when no other QB has won and then ignore other instances in the league where a game is won in spite of a QBs play (ie The Eagles win over San Diego)

Some of us realize that there are 3 parts to an NFL team's game ... offense, defense, and special teams.

Some of us also realize that the QB is just one player in one part of the game and is not considered a demigod

Some of us don't forget that a 1st round franchise QB hasn't won a Superbowl in around 8 years and last year was the first time one participated in 7

Some of us listen to Ron Jaworski about how the average length of a QB to "get it" and develop in the NFL is 6 years. Some of us also understand that people learn and develop at different speeds

Some of us prefer to wait to see who will be available in the draft and where the team is drafting before declaring an unnamed QB to be the one that will save us. We also later ask crazy questions like if they will fit into our offense or not before saying "draft him"

I can go on for hours but there is no point because just like last year and the "Shaun King will save us" debacle some people just will not get it or prefer to simply ignore it. Some people want to convince themselves that their team is one player away and often pick the most overhyped position in the NFL to put all that blame into.

Its just their choice. Yes the QB is an important position but he's not the only player on the team. Football is a team sport things rely heavily on other things and more than a player. If the Oline doesn't block then the QB has less time to go through his reads and might miss the open WR, if the RB is ineffective the playaction fake will fool no one, if the WR runs the wrong route it leads to an INT or incompletion, if the QB throws to the wrong spot it leads to the same thing, etc

Look all of us want the QB position settled. Not all of us believe in the hype of the position.

If there is a QB that is available after the fixing of the Oline and Dline and that fits into our offense, I have no problem with us taking them. However I don't see the QB position as the utter most important need for this team.

BTW I have not jocked McCown by calling him the QB of the future or anything. I said he "might be" but like with many arguments about the QB position, things are conveniently forgotten.

I am still mulling over the fact Sports Center through out last week. Teams that ran the ball the most (not the most yardage) won every game but one. There has to be some meaningful information in that.
 

Russ Smith

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cardpa said:
So what this really means is our QB coach isn't able to evaluate and correct the flaws in McCown. Just another instance where the problems on this team point right back to the coaching staff. I really believe that the difference between the successful teams and the also rans has more to do with the coaching staff than the players.

It all comes down to how well the coaches can evaluate and correct deficencies and bad habits in individual players in order to improve their abilities.

Well then we have to choose to believe that Dennis Green has been here for well over a year and never once bothered to have a talk with Josh, nor did any assistant, about his mechanics. I don't think Josh doesn't listen, I just suspect he's had a hard time dropping certain things out of his throwing motion. Even in the SF game there was Josh making the altitude excuse and you could see Warner wasn't buying it and then Joe "never say a bad word about the QB" Theismann essentially told Josh to shut up, quit making excuses, and get the ball down he's had too long warming up to not know about it, just get it done.


Anybody who's ever learned a golf swing or how to flycast has been through knowing you're doing something wrong, knowing EXACTLY what it is you're doing wrong, and being completely unable to stop doing it.

I think that's Josh with his mechanics because within games he goes into stretches where he looks great and stretches where he overthrows every ball.
 

Russ Smith

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john h said:
I am still mulling over the fact Sports Center through out last week. Teams that ran the ball the most (not the most yardage) won every game but one. There has to be some meaningful information in that.

Yep there is, teams that get ahead, run the ball to run out the clock.
 

earthsci

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jstadvl said:
C'mon, Warner starts. We need to get behind whoever is at the helm.
I'll be at that game screaming my ass off for him, period.
We need a win, period.
We don't want him to get hurt, but with this O line, it's very possible,period.
McCown will make a good back up, as he was slated at the beginning of the year, period.
Look, would I like to see McCown get the nod and become a very good QB?
Yes I would. However, I'm a Cardinal fan and I'm hoping Warner gets it done for us.
Who the better of the two is doesn't matter anymore. Green made his choice.
Now, let's go fry some seahag!
I can't believe I'm trying to be a voice of reason in this thread. LOL.
Guys, this is written by someone who knows and likes Josh. Why can't we just support Warner and hope that he leads us to victory?
 

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earthsci said:
Guys, this is written by someone who knows and likes Josh. Why can't we just support Warner and hope that he leads us to victory?

I agree that we should cheer on whoever is behind center, but for the long haul will we be any closer to finding a QB for the next few years?
 

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clif said:
I agree that we should cheer on whoever is behind center, but for the long haul will we be any closer to finding a QB for the next few years?
No matter who we start, we won't be any closer to the QB of the future--unless you're talking about tanking games for draft position. McCown is not going to suddenly become that guy. He isn't that guy right now, and he won't be after another 9 starts.
 

earthsci

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clif said:
I agree that we should cheer on whoever is behind center, but for the long haul will we be any closer to finding a QB for the next few years?

Pariah said:
No matter who we start, we won't be any closer to the QB of the future--unless you're talking about tanking games for draft position. McCown is not going to suddenly become that guy. He isn't that guy right now, and he won't be after another 9 starts.
I have to agree with Pariah's sentiment clif. I think that Josh would be a good addition as a backup but I don't think that he is our QB of the future. At this point, I just want wins.
 

cardpa

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I agree Josh will have games he looks brillant in and others where he looks completely lost. I don't ever expect him to be the consistent QB you need to win week in and week out.

By the way Stout, it not really a blanket statement, Its the reality of sports. I truly believe coaches can elevate players games. There will be a limit based on the God given ability of each player, however good coaches will be able to squeeze out every last drop of that ability and understand what motivates each one of them. You could argue that at this level they should be self motivated however I tend to disagree with that when you consider almost all of them have been pampered since high school and haven't lived a life that most people have.

The question that begs to be asked is how one team could draft and sign so many underachievers/medicore players so consistently for such a long period of time and not ever break the cycle.

We haven't had a good head coach since Coryell. I was excited when it was announced that Green was hired thinking he would make the difference. I think the problem is he doesn't have the same assistants he had in Minnesota who carried the load and maybe made Green look better than he really is.
 

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Stout my man

ok I'll go with that! Man I tried, for my daughters sake, I just couldn't make it through. LOL Maybe I'll give it anoither shot.
 

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earthsci said:
I have to agree with Pariah's sentiment clif. I think that Josh would be a good addition as a backup but I don't think that he is our QB of the future. At this point, I just want wins.

So here's a thought I haven't seen mentioned yet.

What if Green benching Josh is all about Josh being back next year with us?

So far Josh has really performed terribly as a backup, if you go back and look this year his rating as a starter is nearly 77, as a backup it's 33.5. Last year 75 as a starter 30 as a backup, year before rating identical(39.6) but lower %, higher INT%, much lower YPA. So for 3 years Josh has shown he plays MUCH better as the starter when he gets all the reps.

Maybe Green wants to find out if he can be an effective backup who can come in during the middle of the game when the starter gets his bell rung, and play well?

Most starter quality QBs play better with more reps that's pretty obvious, but some guys are really good coming in off the bench and some guys just can't do it, maybe Green is trying to find out if Josh can or not.
 

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As for the mechanics part

a running QB has to learn or be taught to throw a bit differently. Spacing is different, foot plant is different, arm position is different.
Now I'm NOT saying Plummer isn't a beneficiary of the system, BUT, the system works around him. AND if you go back and look at his old Cards games and compare them to what he's dpoing now, you'll see a difference in his mechanics. He blows it when he regresses. But, watch him. Tell me you don't see a difference. Don't come back with the running game argument. That's already a given.
The line and play calling are to Plummer's strengths, and watch the difference between where he is when he lets go, his body and foot mechanics and arm position now, as compared to then.
Some of you are much better at breaking down film than me so I KNOW you'll see it.
McCown could be a victim of poor coaching AND his own regressions.
 
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