We Won Despite CKW...

Jim Hart

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Wow. Perspective is everything. We were almost two touchdown dogs in that game for all the money you wanted to place on it.

Ken and his team put together a game that won it; yea, we gave them a chance, then they
gave it back; that must happen two or three times a game in the NFL, why pick a brilliant game that ended correctly with the team that earned it winning.

By the way, happy to think that the personality that the Cardinals takes on is KW's.

Shut it. We're all entitled! Leave us be!
 

Mitch

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NOOOOO!!

You do NOT give up the ball ON PURPOSE with the score that close. No. You just don't do it. Especially to Tom "I have 3 rings" Brady. You never, ever give up the ball in this situation. If they don't have the ball they can't score.

Sorry Mitch, but No. You just don't do it. Not to Brady. (A lesson learned watching Joe Montana march down the field against the Rams.) The ball means life. You choke them. You don't give them mouth to mouth.

OK, Dems---do your best to tell us what running play versus a stacked box would have worked for 13 yards and a first down?

There isn't a running play on planet Earth that would have worked in that down and distance and situation.

Better yet---seeing as you KNOW all 11 Patriots are going to try to spear and strip the ball---do you think as a coach you would have instructed your RB as to what to do at the first sign of contact?...as in put TWO HANDS ON THE BALL and GET A KNEE DOWN.

OK---this is what Whisenhunt got out of the play---he got an essential rookie RB taking the pitch, running to his left (which isn't his preferred side to begin with) and then you got him cutting back hard directly into the TEETH of the PURSUIT.

OBVIOUSLY, CKW hadn't PREPARED Williams to do the right thing---so THAT in itself is ON THE COACH.

I have been praising Whisenhunt for other aspects of the win---but this one was ILL-CONCEIVED and thoroughly ILL-PREPARED.

AND this has been one of my greatest concerns about Whisenhunt---his poor understanding of clock management---this is part of a pattern, Dems. This is nothing new.

So---instead, to further respond to your argument---because the play was not coached properly Whisenhunt gave "Three Ring" Brady the ball inside the Cardinals' 40 yard line with over 1:00 on the clock---rather than at his own 30 with 22 seconds left...where he would have to go over 40 yards in two plays AND be able to spike the ball in order to set up a FG.
 
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Jim Hart

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"I have been praising Whisenhunt for other aspects of the win" Not being an ass, but show me?
 

Buckybird

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OK, Dems---do your best to tell us what running play versus a stacked box would have worked for 13 yards and a first down?

There isn't a running play on planet Earth that would have worked in that down and distance and situation.

Better yet---seeing as you KNOW all 11 Patriots are going to try to spear and strip the ball---do you think as a coach you would have instructed your RB as to what to do at the first sign of contact?

OK---this is what Whisenhunt got out of the play---he got an essential rookie RB taking the pitch, running to his left (which isn't his preferred side to begin with) and then you got him cutting back hard directly into the TEETH of the PURSUIT.

OBVIOUSLY, CKW hadn't PREPARED Williams to do the right thing---so THAT in itself is ON THE COACH.

I have been praising Whisenhunt for other aspects of the win---but this one was ILL-CONCEIVED and thoroughly ILL-PREPARED.

AND this has been one of my greatest concerns about Whisenhunt---his poor understanding of clock management---this is part of a pattern, Dems. This is nothing new.

So---instead, to further respond to your argument---because the play was not coached properly Whisenhunt gave "Three Ring" Brady the ball inside the Cardinals' 40 yard line with over 1:00 on the clock---rather than at his own 30 with 22 seconds left...where he would have to go over 40 yards in two plays AND be able to spike the ball in order to set up a FG.

I'm still stuck on top of the fence as to what's the right thing to do, so I'm not jumping off.

A decision has to be made by the HC & itp was made. All I know is this...Wiz has won 9 of his last 11 games when many (including you Mitch I believe) said he had lost this team & needed to be shown the door. Bottom line is we're winning & Wiz deserves his kudos for keeping the titanic from sinking, so it's hard to play Monday Morning QB with the HC when he's winning. Nuff said
 

Jim Hart

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I refuse to engage you in your current argument as you've, for whatever reason decided that we suck so much that we cannot hold onto a ball and should instead just punt -
 

Mitch

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So these "clinics" you go to tell you to not take more time off the clock in that situation? Just asking ...

No---honestly---what are the odds of any team going 45 yards in 2 plays AND being able to spike the ball for a FG---all in 23 seconds?

One 20 yard completion down the middle would take off 15 seconds before the next snap at least....now there's 8 seconds left. Keep the play in bounds, the game is over.
 

DemsMyBoys

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OK, Dems---do your best to tell us what running play versus a stacked box would have worked for 13 yards and a first down?

How the holy heck do I know? (Sorry. Laughing at myself.)

I just do not believe in giving up the ball.

Seriously. Dare I say I'd have brought in Housler and dinked it to him? That would have REALLY set everyone's computer on fire. :p
 

Jim Hart

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No---honestly---what are the odds of any team going 45 yards in 2 plays AND being able to spike the ball for a FG---all in 23 seconds?

One 20 yard completion down the middle would take off 15 seconds before the next snap at least....now there's 8 seconds left. Keep the play in bounds, the game is over.

I understand and respect your view on that.
 

Mitch

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"I have been praising Whisenhunt for other aspects of the win" Not being an ass, but show me?

Try reading my post last week where I said he deserved a game ball.

Try reading the "GREAT" bullets in my post this week where I lauded him for the Wildcat and other play calls.

Is that good enough for you?
 

Chris_Sanders

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So your premise is that in the dozen years of playing football, Ryan Williams knows nothing about securing the ball. Thus it was up to his coach to properly prepare him for that whole fumbling thing.

Hopefully your pee wee camps teach kids what poor Ryan Williams never learned. Hold on to the ball.
 

Jetstream Green

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My fear was everywhere. My fear was a block punt. My fear was Zat shanking it in an attempt to kick it out of bounds so it could not be returned. My fear was a punt return. I think if LSH ran it out, it would have never came down to that Williams play but what if LSH would have only gotten to the 10 yard line or worse and then we would be punting deep in our own endzone after not getting a first down. In the end we won, and for the very reason we did win...we should not be griping as fellow fans over a loss which never happened. Peace :)
 

Jim Hart

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Try reading my post last week where I said he deserved a game ball.

Try reading the "GREAT" bullets in my post this week where I lauded him for the Wildcat and other play calls.

Is that good enough for you?

I sincerely do read your posts. Most of them the past ... At least since the draft, and appreciate your input. Would like you to find your actual posts, perhaps just to remind you that you contradict yourself greatly. Keep in mind, you're one of the reasons a great poster like me has returned to this sited. It's better to win, than be right. :)
 

Chris_Sanders

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I did LEARN AT SHOUTING CAMP that all cap words don't enhance credibility
 

Jim Hart

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Thank you. I have always been a huge fan of THE Jim Hart!

I sincerely respect you and your views brotha from anotha! Debates are healthy. In the end we all want to win. That is what it is about. I'll challenge everyone here to back up what they say and ask that every challenge me. We're all one here. Cards!
 

Jim Hart

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And I'm not always right. Actually, I'm only right about 23.4% of the time. :/
 

conraddobler

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You people who are defending Whiz on this are just being totally unrealistic.

A guy can be a good HC and have holes in his game, late game management is one peculiar hole in the dudes game.

Calling a running play with a rookie RB in that situation is bad, calling a pitch a lot worse.

Forget telling him not to fumble I agree that's a given, forget telling him to get down, that's all too late there for a rookie to absord, it's not the way people think and you could as easily cause a fumble putting that in his head as not given how green he is to the NFL.

One point we should make this AINT PW football, there aren't 6 foot 3 inch 300lb monsters who run a 4.7 40 in Peewee football!!!!

Defending Whiz against being fired, fine, defending him overall fine, defending this?

Go on with your bad self, just stamp homer on your forehead IMO.

Chances are Miller called the play, Whiz didn't negate it and is just covering for him, JMO.
 

MrYeahBut

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And I'm not always right. Actually, I'm only right about 23.4% of the time. :/


Work on getting it right about 30% more and you'll be right up there with Kolb's completion percentage
 

Chris_Sanders

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Maybe we need Bottlehead night. Where you can hold a baby's bottle shaped like your favorite rookie and wave it at them to remind them basics of the game. Then you can suck on the bottle when they mess up and blame the coach
 

Jim Hart

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"You people who are defending Whiz on this are just being totally unrealistic." Perhaps. But you have to take a good look at the years prior to `08. We suffered for many years .... I'm damn happy to have him.
 

Darkside

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I don't know where I stand on the issue, but I do know if we'd lost that game more people than Mitch would be complaining about the call.

I wouldn't have kneeled, but I think a pitch is possibly the riskiest type of run you can make in that situation. I probably would have just run a stretch play.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with questioning a coach's play-call. We all do it. We ran 60 offensive plays not counting punts. 33 rushing and 27 passing. Can we all at least agree that not every play-call was a good one? I thought Whis called a great game, but I'm under no illusions that there were a few bad ones out of those 60.

And I totally get the fact that some people, myself included, are still basking in the glow of our win and that's perfectly understandable. It's only been a day. Whis isn't perfect; our team isn't perfect. But we were good enough Sunday.
 

AzStevenCal

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No---honestly---what are the odds of any team going 45 yards in 2 plays AND being able to spike the ball for a FG---all in 23 seconds?

One 20 yard completion down the middle would take off 15 seconds before the next snap at least....now there's 8 seconds left. Keep the play in bounds, the game is over.

Wow. What have I watched my entire life? I can't tell you how many times I've seen a team get into field goal position in less than half a minute without timeouts remaining. I think it's assuming quite a bit that the smartest QB/Coach combo in the league couldn't get more than two plays out of the time remaining. Keep in mind that Brady had just ripped us apart on the previous drive. Also, have you watched our special teams this year? I wouldn't count on putting them 45 yards out of field goal range especially since Gost has a strong leg.

Steve
 

Russ Smith

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I think some of the objection is the title of this thread?

It doesn't say Whiz made a few questionable playcalls, it says we won despite stupidity from CKW.
 

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