We Won Despite CKW...

[MrYeahBut]

You people who are defending Whiz on this are just being totally unrealistic.

A guy can be a good HC and have holes in his game, late game management is one peculiar hole in the dudes game.

Calling a running play with a rookie RB in that situation is bad, calling a pitch a lot worse.

Forget telling him not to fumble I agree that's a given, forget telling him to get down, that's all too late there for a rookie to absord, it's not the way people think and you could as easily cause a fumble putting that in his head as not given how green he is to the NFL.

One point we should make this AINT PW football, there aren't 6 foot 3 inch 300lb monsters who run a 4.7 40 in Peewee football!!!!

Defending Whiz against being fired, fine, defending him overall fine, defending this?

Go on with your bad self, just stamp homer on your forehead IMO.

Chances are Miller called the play, Whiz didn't negate it and is just covering for him, JMO.

Bad call or not, I still saw it as a way to play to win, not lose.

We are all totally unrealistic, we're Cardinal fans.


.

 

[Jim Hart]

I think some of the objection is the title of this thread?

It doesn't say Whiz made a few questionable playcalls, it says we won despite stupidity from CKW.

This is probably true. And probably got me on edge more than it should have.

 

[conraddobler]

You aren't picking up the first down without risking a fumble, there's just no way, it's more important to run time and not fumble than anything else, first, no fumble, then run time.

It's just what you do there, don't care who the other QB is. That's the way you play 3rd and 13 in that situation. I can see running the ball but not a pitch, not with a rookie, heck put a FB in there who runs with both arms on the ball all the time, the point is someone on our team can hold onto the ball better than anyone, USE THAT GUY THERE.

The point is this comes up rather regularly in the NFL, there's no mystery to what you do there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You people who are defending Whiz on this are just being totally unrealistic.

A guy can be a good HC and have holes in his game, late game management is one peculiar hole in the dudes game.

Calling a running play with a rookie RB in that situation is bad, calling a pitch a lot worse.

Forget telling him not to fumble I agree that's a given, forget telling him to get down, that's all too late there for a rookie to absord, it's not the way people think and you could as easily cause a fumble putting that in his head as not given how green he is to the NFL.

One point we should make this AINT PW football, there aren't 6 foot 3 inch 300lb monsters who run a 4.7 40 in Peewee football!!!!

Defending Whiz against being fired, fine, defending him overall fine, defending this?

Go on with your bad self, just stamp homer on your forehead IMO.

Chances are Miller called the play, Whiz didn't negate it and is just covering for him, JMO.

That's all well and good but what about those of us that actually do not have a problem with the play that was called. I agree that Whiz is far from perfect and I agree that he has made some real late game blunders but that doesn't mean every decision he makes late in a game is wrong.

Steve (AKA Totally Unrealistic Steve)

 

[Duckjake]

"Quit bitching about the best coach the Arizona Cardinals have ever had." I seriously wonder how this board, (some) have become so self-entitled. This is the best shape this organization has ever, ever, ever, ever, been in, yet people still whine.

OK please list all the playoff games we won the last two seasons. This isn't Pop Warner where everyone gets a trophy. It's the multi billion dollar NFL. There are no points for trying hard. I want this team to be like the Ravens or the Steelers where they win all the time. This nonsense of being content with 8-8 because those were the expectations just sucks.

Just like the football team Cardinal fans need to move to the next level. These aren't the Bugel and McGinnis years. The franchise has the money. They have a new reputation where guys want to play here instead of dreading playing for the Cards. They have improved the facilities and scouting department. We have a nest full of young talented players. It's time for Cardinal fans to stop being content with mediocrity simply because it's better than what we used to have.

 

[Jim Hart]

OK please list all the playoff games we won the last two seasons. This isn't Pop Warner where everyone gets a trophy. It's the multi billion dollar NFL. There are no points for trying hard. I want this team to be like the Ravens or the Steelers where they win all the time. This nonsense of being content with 8-8 because those were the expectations just sucks.

Just like the football team Cardinal fans need to move to the next level. These aren't the Bugel and McGinnis years. The franchise has the money. They have a new reputation where guys want to play here instead of dreading playing for the Cards. They have improved the facilities and scouting department. We have a nest full of young talented players. It's time for Cardinal fans to stop being content with mediocrity simply because it's better than what we used to have.

I'll do that after you list all of the championship games we've competed in since our inception. Then give the percentage of those, compared to those of them since Whiz has been in charge. I'll wait. And wait. And wait.

 

[Buckybird]

OK please list all the playoff games we won the last two seasons. This isn't Pop Warner where everyone gets a trophy. It's the multi billion dollar NFL. There are no points for trying hard. I want this team to be like the Ravens or the Steelers where they win all the time. This nonsense of being content with 8-8 because those were the expectations just sucks.

Just like the football team Cardinal fans need to move to the next level. These aren't the Bugel and McGinnis years. The franchise has the money. They have a new reputation where guys want to play here instead of dreading playing for the Cards. They have improved the facilities and scouting department. We have a nest full of young talented players. It's time for Cardinal fans to stop being content with mediocrity simply because it's better than what we used to have.

If we can just get a great QB all those dreams will come true Duck

 

[chickenhead]

I thought Bill Barnwell had a measured take on it:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8389798/the-cardinals-forgot-lose-rest-notable-news-week-2-nfl

"I've seen suggestions that the Cardinals shouldn't have handed the ball off to Williams, but that seems like ex post facto logic. The Patriots had called their final timeout before that third down, with 1:10 remaining, but Williams had been effective running the ball during the final drive, and there was reason to believe that he could pick up a few extra yards and help produce better field position for the coming punt to New England. Williams is basically a rookie after missing the 2011 season with a knee injury, but research I've done has found that there's no significant difference in the fumble rates of rookies as opposed to more experienced players. And what were the Cardinals supposed to do instead, hand the ball to Beanie Wells (who has fumbled once every 63 touches as a pro) or let Kevin Kolb throw the ball? It was an acceptable risk that didn't work out."

Admittedly the pitch makes me nervous, but running the ball doesn't in this situation. The odds of a fumble on a given running play are small. The odds don't increase because it's near the end of the game. And if we are to believe Barnwell above, the fact that RW is a rookie may not be the factor some are suggesting.

The goal of the run is to reduce both time remaining and the Patriots' field position. We can't ignore the variables of the punt return, either. But you begin to turn them in your favor by increasing the ground the return must cover while reducing the time remaining after the return is over. Then Brady likely has one less play to work with, at a greater distance from field goal range. In Foxboro. You're weighing the odds of a fumble against the odds of Brady and the Patriots offense getting the production they need with an extra play. They don't have that play if you deny it.

This is the logic I've seen behind the play call, and while this is a fair debate (as well as a fun one), I don't see how the running play can be flatly dismissed. The upside of executing a simple running play in this situation is equal to a critical stop on defense if it denies a play.

 

[Jim Hart]

Before you move to the next level, you need to take a step back and realize where you were before. Some of you do not get this. At all. Of course you always strive for more, but before you bash what you currently have, you damn well better be smart enough to know what you had prior. Spoiled ****ed brats, some of you.

 

[Jim Hart]

Apparently Ducker decided to leave and do some research ... Good on him.

 

[football karma]

Funny-- Falcons were in a very similar situation

1:55 left, first down and the Broncs down to one timeout, protecting a 6 pt lead.

Mike smith choose to hand it off. Turner got a first down on the play, effectively ending the game --

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I thought Bill Barnwell had a measured take on it:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8389798/the-cardinals-forgot-lose-rest-notable-news-week-2-nfl

"I've seen suggestions that the Cardinals shouldn't have handed the ball off to Williams, but that seems like ex post facto logic. The Patriots had called their final timeout before that third down, with 1:10 remaining, but Williams had been effective running the ball during the final drive, and there was reason to believe that he could pick up a few extra yards and help produce better field position for the coming punt to New England. Williams is basically a rookie after missing the 2011 season with a knee injury, but research I've done has found that there's no significant difference in the fumble rates of rookies as opposed to more experienced players. And what were the Cardinals supposed to do instead, hand the ball to Beanie Wells (who has fumbled once every 63 touches as a pro) or let Kevin Kolb throw the ball? It was an acceptable risk that didn't work out."

Admittedly the pitch makes me nervous, but running the ball doesn't in this situation. The odds of a fumble on a given running play are small. The odds don't increase because it's near the end of the game. And if we are to believe Barnwell above, the fact that RW is a rookie may not be the factor some are suggesting.

The goal of the run is to reduce both time remaining and the Patriots' field position. We can't ignore the variables of the punt return, either. But you begin to turn them in your favor by increasing the ground the return must cover while reducing the time remaining after the return is over. Then Brady likely has one less play to work with, at a greater distance from field goal range. In Foxboro. You're weighing the odds of a fumble against the odds of Brady and the Patriots offense getting the production they need with an extra play. They don't have that play if you deny it.

This is the logic I've seen behind the play call, and while this is a fair debate (as well as a fun one), I don't see how the running play can be flatly dismissed. The upside of executing a simple running play in this situation is equal to a critical stop on defense if it denies a play.

Wow where have I heard this before?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Funny-- Falcons were in a very similar situation

1:55 left, first down and the Broncs down to one timeout, protecting a 6 pt lead.

Mike smith choose to hand it off. Turner got a first down on the play, effectively ending the game --

Well you know what that means...

Spoiler

THEY DIDN'T LISTEN at football camp

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I SAID IT FIRST, TWIT

 

[MrYeahBut]

Well you know what that means...

Spoiler

THEY DIDN'T LISTEN at football camp

Spoiler

You play to win the game, HELLO

.

 

[Duckjake]

I'll do that after you list all of the championship games we've competed in since our inception. Then give the percentage of those, compared to those of them since Whiz has been in charge. I'll wait. And wait. And wait.

Thank you. A perfect example of accepting mediocrity because it is better than what we had before.

I don't give a rats azz about what the Cardinals did in the past. All I care about is what they are doing now. It's time we stopped with this excuse parade. Well we suck but we don't suck as much as we used to.

No head coach in Cardinal history has had the advantages that Whisenhunt has had with 5+ seasons with the new stadium, the new and improved scouting department, etc. We should be expecting better than 15-19 and everyone saying New England is going to kick the crap out of us.

How about we're going to New England and they're worried about us coming to their house and we're all predicting we're going to kick their rears?

 

[Jim Hart]

"I don't give a rats azz about what the Cardinals did in the past"




Do you give a ratz azzz what they did this past Sunday?

 

[Jim Hart]

I'll wait ... And wait ... And wait, for your lame response ...


You will not win this battle ....


I'm a Card. I stick it out, and have stuck it out for many years. Sorry, you will lose.

 

[Duckjake]

"I don't give a rats azz about what the Cardinals did in the past"




Do you give a ratz azzz what they did this past Sunday?

I give a rats azz about every Cardinal game. Nice try at avoiding the point of the discussion though.

 

[Jim Hart]

I give a rats azz about every Cardinal game. Nice try at avoiding the point of the discussion though.

The point of your "discussion" was that Whiz sucked, no?


Tell me how much he sucks.



Who in the world are you comparing him to?



Who is your favorite team leader in this league?


Tell me.


This is your game Friend.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I'll do that after you list all of the championship games we've competed in since our inception. Then give the percentage of those, compared to those of them since Whiz has been in charge. I'll wait. And wait. And wait.

Ok an anolgy for you....a person has a bike, then gets a pinto and the buys a yugo....finally he gets a used camero with 140,000 miles on it. He tells his wife...Best damn car I have ever had. Does that make his car nice?

Whiz may be the best we have had...but he still ins't very good. I can list 15 coaches in the nFL I rather have..and 3 or 4 in a studio.....and probably 4 or 5 in college.

Are we winning....yes....but by the smallest of margins....We won an NFL record 4 OT games last year...and Seattle had 6 attempts from the 8 yard line...and Brady was at our 30 with 1:10 left....we won both...is that good coaching...or is that...Jesus is wearing Cardinal red?

 

[chickenhead]

Wow where have I heard this before?

You mean you? I'm just in agreement.

 

[AZ Native]

I saw a pitch play perfectly executed. That was not the problem. He didn't cover with 2 hands when he was being hit. That could have been the case anywhere on the field. The pitch call was not the problem. This is strictly a case of Monday Morning Quarterbacking, something we are all guilty of. Let us be the ones to make the crucial calls on Sunday and then have every nobody and his brother take potshots at us on Monday. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Belichick, Fox, Coughlin, Smith(Atlanta), Shanahan, Reid, Harbaugh, Fisher, Tomlin, McCarthy,Harbaugh(baltimore), Turner, Carrol(maybe) ok you win I can name 12-13....

 

[Duckjake]

The point of your "discussion" was that Whiz sucked, no?


Tell me how much he sucks.



Who in the world are you comparing him to?



Who is your favorite team leader in this league?


Tell me.


This is your game Friend.

Thick headed are you?

I never said Whisenhunt sucked. What I am talking about, which apparently goes right over your head like a Kolb pass to a TE, is that we need to quit accepting mediocrity from our football team simply because they're not as bad as teams from the past. We need to be expecting more from the Cardinals instead of getting all excited because we won a game. We should be expecting to win those games instead of being relieved we won. And we should stay on the coaches and players and front office until the Cardinals are no longer 14 point dogs at NE or 4.5 dogs at home.

Guys like you who say we shouldn't point out the deficiencies of the team, and stop "whining" simply because we won and we're better than the 2003 Cardinals are part of the reason Arizona has almost never been competitive. For years in the AZ there was no penalty for failure. Nobody cared whether they won or lost and the few fans they had would pat them on the back and say nice game guys just like parents do at a 9 year olds soccer game.