What would a future be without Kyler?

[juza76]

Kyler’s been listening to local radio haha:
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Must be a bit sensitive, one day wrongly i sent by private message a photo from my phone gallery, guess was a tattoo drawing and he blocked me on IG

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kyler’s been listening to local radio haha:
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I'd block him too. He's said some pretty ******* things.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Russell Wilson is 5'10

5’11”

 

[Krangodnzr]

5’11”

5'10 5/8ths actually. He's literally half an inch taller than Murray.

 

[TRW]

11-6 is not broken. And it took a complete meltdown for this team to only have 11 wins.

Now with that said this team obviously has issues. But for Kliff & Kyler to inherit the worst offense in the history of the nfl and to go from 3 wins, to 5 wins, to 8 wins, to 11 wins…We’ll IMO, regardless of what dysfunctions exist, this progress cannot be written off like so many like to do.

I think they next and fair step is to expect a playoff win this season. Not a super bowl, not multiple playoff wins. Just win one. If they do that, it’s a successful season in my book.

And it’s just as likely that the next 4 seasons are 8 wins, 5 wins, 3 wins, KK Kanned after paying Kyler $45 million per season. Just my lack of faith in the ownership speaking. Winning is not and never has been the priority with the Bidwills IMO.
Kudos for your optimism though.

 

[Shane]

5'10 5/8ths actually. He's literally half an inch taller than Murray.

He’s a 1/2 inch taller and an overall much much better QB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He’s a 1/2 inch taller and an overall much much better QB.

As a 10 year vet, sure.

 

[Shane]

As a 10 year vet, sure.

He was a much much much better quarterback with three years on then Murray is….

 

[Krangodnzr]

He’s a 1/2 inch taller and an overall much much better QB.

And "much, much" is hyperbole.

QBR had Murray as better. Murray's QB Rating was 3 points less. Murray was more accurate, but threw more picks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He was a much much much better quarterback with three years on then Murray is….

With an elite running game and elite defense...

What you're saying just isn't really true.

And Murray's year three numbers were better than Wilson's year three numbers in almost every way.

 

[DVontel]

It’s rather obvious to people with eyes that Russell in his first 3 seasons was a game-manager that leaned on a dominant run-game & all-time defense. He was pretty much Alex Smith those years until he took off in 2015. The guy barely even threw for over 3000 yards in 16 games.

I bet Russell & Seattle fans were blessed to have a really well constructed team like that during that time.

 

[Solar7]

11-6 is not broken. And it took a complete meltdown for this team to only have 11 wins.

Now with that said this team obviously has issues. But for Kliff & Kyler to inherit the worst offense in the history of the nfl and to go from 3 wins, to 5 wins, to 8 wins, to 11 wins…We’ll IMO, regardless of what dysfunctions exist, this progress cannot be written off like so many like to do.

I think they next and fair step is to expect a playoff win this season. Not a super bowl, not multiple playoff wins. Just win one. If they do that, it’s a successful season in my book.

We can agree to disagree on this one I guess.

Kyler's absolutely fallen off a cliff in the back half of two consecutive seasons. 11-6's exclamation point to end the season was an absolutely pitiful final playoff game, not to mention completely falling out of the driver's seat for better positioning.

This team has a roster mostly bereft of young talent, and the talent we do have isn't coming cheap. Very little of it is under contract for next year, and we're on the verge of handing out one or more big contracts that will further hamstring our ability to sign quality FAs. Our secondary is not good. Our LBs are... not good despite investing major assets at ILB. D-Line... poor. OL... very much a question mark.

I don't know, if this roster construction doesn't have you concerned, I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We can agree to disagree on this one I guess.

Kyler's absolutely fallen off a cliff in the back half of two consecutive seasons. 11-6's exclamation point to end the season was an absolutely pitiful final playoff game, not to mention completely falling out of the driver's seat for better positioning.

This team has a roster mostly bereft of young talent, and the talent we do have isn't coming cheap. Very little of it is under contract for next year, and we're on the verge of handing out one or more big contracts that will further hamstring our ability to sign quality FAs. Our secondary is not good. Our LBs are... not good despite investing major assets at ILB. D-Line... poor. OL... very much a question mark.

I don't know, if this roster construction doesn't have you concerned, I'm not sure what else to say.

In both of them he was hurt. Last year his primary weapon was also hurt. Not making excuses, it just is what it is.

He also is paired with a coach that has fallen off a cliff his past 6 or 7 seasons in a row.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It’s rather obvious to people with eyes that Russell in his first 3 seasons was a game-manager that leaned on a dominant run-game & all-time defense. He was pretty much Alex Smith those years until he took off in 2015. The guy barely even threw for over 3000 yards in 16 games.

I bet Russell & Seattle fans were blessed to have a really well constructed team like that during that time.

Check out the rosters of those Wilson/Kap teams - just overflowing with talent. Our comparative position at this point is just pathetic.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Check out the rosters of those Wilson/Kap teams - just overflowing with talent. Our comparative position at this point is just pathetic.

Depends on the position. Wilson early on didn't have a ton of playmakers or a competent pass blocking OL (they could RB OK). The defense was really good though.

 

[Solar7]

In both of them he was hurt. Last year his primary weapon was also hurt. Not making excuses, it just is what it is.

He also is paired with a coach that has fallen off a cliff his past 6 or 7 seasons in a row.

As Parcells used to say, the best ability is availability. I was actively concerned about his size and ability to hold up when we were leading up to drafting him, and while his size may not be the specific reason he's been hurt, it just doesn't seem to take much for the guy to go from one of the most dynamic players on the field to nearly a non-factor. Which I honestly don't totally get, given the arm talent the guy has. He's terrified of contact, but rightfully so seeing how much it hurts his game when he can't run. It's also alarming that he needs one of the top three WRs in the league to be able to succeed, have his buddy traded here, couldn't make it work with a combo of Green and Kirk, just... everything turns him from a tantalizing player into a guy that just frustrates me.

And yeah, Kliff's cliff isn't much better. I'm just disillusioned with the team, and I feel like more posters are here than ever, which is surreal after as @JosiahLee mentioned, an 11-6 record. If you told us after the Wilks season that it would only take three seasons to get back to a record like that, we'd have all done cartwheels, but something about it feels like a mirage.

 

[DVontel]

It's also alarming that he needs one of the top three WRs in the league to be able to succeed,

Hopkins is not even a top 5 WR anymore, let alone 3. He might actually be closer to than 10 than 5. Crazy to think that a QB needs a good receiving option to play good, right?

have his buddy traded here,

This a weird complaint. Probably an irrelevant one if anything.

couldn't make it work with a combo of Green and Kirk

lol, why you say this like 33 year old passed-his-prime Green and Kirk are prime Randy Moss and Cris Carter? I'm pretty sure Kirk just signed a contract that a lot of people thought was way over his worth and AJ Green had his most productive season since 2017. What is "making it work" exactly? 1,5K yards and 10+ TDs from each?


There's valid, and I mean, actual valid concerns and criticisms revolving around Kyler. Don't get me wrong, but the ones you listed are just.....perplexing.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

As Parcells used to say, the best ability is availability. I was actively concerned about his size and ability to hold up when we were leading up to drafting him, and while his size may not be the specific reason he's been hurt, it just doesn't seem to take much for the guy to go from one of the most dynamic players on the field to nearly a non-factor. Which I honestly don't totally get, given the arm talent the guy has. He's terrified of contact, but rightfully so seeing how much it hurts his game when he can't run. It's also alarming that he needs one of the top three WRs in the league to be able to succeed, have his buddy traded here, couldn't make it work with a combo of Green and Kirk, just... everything turns him from a tantalizing player into a guy that just frustrates me.

And yeah, Kliff's cliff isn't much better. I'm just disillusioned with the team, and I feel like more posters are here than ever, which is surreal after as @JosiahLee mentioned, an 11-6 record. If you told us after the Wilks season that it would only take three seasons to get back to a record like that, we'd have all done cartwheels, but something about it feels like a mirage.

Can't really disagree with anything that you are saying.

I will add though, that these Cards are very exciting to watch. You never quite know what team you will get. Something that would have been unthinkable 3 years ago.

 

[Solar7]

Hopkins is not even a top 5 WR anymore, let alone 3. He might actually be closer to than 10 than 5. Crazy to think that a QB needs a good receiving option to play good, right?

Fine, we can go with semantics and call him a top 10 WR. There's 64-96 starting WRs in the league, let's not pretend that there's a huge difference. He's a top flight WR. Mac Jones is out there throwing for nearly 4,000 yards and 22 TDs as a rookie throwing to Jakobi Meyers.

This a weird complaint. Probably an irrelevant one if anything.

Probably should have skipped the term buddy and said "another guy who is a first/second round pick and costs the team major assets." Don't get me wrong, Keim knows more about draft beer than the NFL draft, which hurts us at WR, but it's still an issue...

lol, why you say this like 33 year old passed-his-prime Green and Kirk are prime Randy Moss and Cris Carter? I'm pretty sure Kirk just signed a contract that a lot of people thought was way over his worth and AJ Green had his most productive season since 2017. What is "making it work" exactly? 1,5K yards and 10+ TDs from each?


There's valid, and I mean, actual valid concerns and criticisms revolving around Kyler. Don't get me wrong, but the ones you listed are just.....perplexing.

...that gets me to this point. Green still has/had something in the tank. He dropped off and made some bonehead moves, but we were alright with him early on. Former 1st round pick, in fact top 5, and one of the former stars of this league. Fitz had been slowing down with Kyler but still had legendary talent. Christian Kirk was a 2nd round pick.

"Making it work" is winning with talent that doesn't all have to be an elite pedigree. Aaron Rodgers isn't sitting out there with elite top-drafted talent to consistently get into the playoffs.

Sure, DeAndre goes down, but you can't tell me that DeAndre Hopkins is the only reason you can't beat the one-win Lions or the left-for-dead Seahawks when you're at home trying to clinch playoff seeding. Green and Kirk should have been enough for any truly elite QB.

 

[DVontel]

There's 64-96 starting WRs in the league, let's not pretend that there's a huge difference.

I mean, I know you're not going to pretend that what Deebo Samuel and Cooper Kupp did last year vs someone like AJ Brown or DK Metcalf wasn't a huge difference. I know you don't really believe that.

Don't get me wrong, Keim knows more about draft beer than the NFL draft, which hurts us at WR, but it's still an issue...

So, it's a Keim issue and only a Keim issue.

Former 1st round pick, in fact top 5, and one of the former stars of this league.

It's 2022, dude. It's funny because this is how I imagine Keim's thought process goes in FA. They were once great many, many years ago, so maybe they are still great today. Might as well sign Julio because he was once a former star and a top overall pick 11 years ago. Andy Isabella was also a 2nd round. N'Keal Harry was a 1st round pick. What's the point here?

Rodgers had an elite WR, has an elite OL, and an elite defense. He's a HOFer, but he's not dragging bums from Walmart to the playoffs. Stop these narratives that these HOF QBs don't have some great/elite talent around them as well. I don't like the mentality around here that just because Keim is terrible at constructing a team, we should lower our standards to what a really well-built and sustainable team looks like.


The play and losses Seattle and especially Detroit are inexcusable. No doubt, I'm not defending that. I honestly agree with this compared to what you said earlier. Having Kirk and AJ should have been enough to be great against those teams.

 

[Chopper0080]

I mean, I know you're not going to pretend that what Deebo Samuel and Cooper Kupp did last year vs someone like AJ Brown or DK Metcalf wasn't a huge difference. I know you don't really believe that.



So, it's a Keim issue and only a Keim issue.


It's 2022, dude. It's funny because this is how I imagine Keim's thought process goes in FA. They were once great many, many years ago, so maybe they are still great today. Might as well sign Julio because he was once a former star and a top overall pick 11 years ago. Andy Isabella was also a 2nd round. N'Keal Harry was a 1st round pick. What's the point here?

Rodgers had an elite WR, has an elite OL, and an elite defense. He's a HOFer, but he's not dragging bums from Walmart to the playoffs. Stop these narratives that these HOF QBs don't have some great/elite talent around them as well. I don't like the mentality around here that just because Keim is terrible at constructing a team, we should lower our standards to what a really well-built and sustainable team looks like.


The play and losses Seattle and especially Detroit are inexcusable. No doubt, I'm not defending that. I honestly agree with this compared to what you said earlier. Having Kirk and AJ should have been enough to be great against those teams.

This is it for me. I don't expect Kyler to light up the league with AJ Green and Kirk, but I do expect a certain level of competency which I don't feel like I saw. Same with the playoff game vs the Rams. It's not that the Cardinals lost, it is that Kyler had a all-time terrible performance. If you are a top 10 QB, you should rarely be flat out awful like Kyler was in moments last year, especially at the end of the season.

 

[Shane]

This is it for me. I don't expect Kyler to light up the league with AJ Green and Kirk, but I do expect a certain level of competency which I don't feel like I saw. Same with the playoff game vs the Rams. It's not that the Cardinals lost, it is that Kyler had a all-time terrible performance. If you are a top 10 QB, you should rarely be flat out awful like Kyler was in moments last year, especially at the end of the season.

Facts

 

[SoonerLou]

I really hope that was just an "off" year for Hopkins in terms of production. Although his gravity did wonders for the team.

 

[SoonerLou]

This is it for me. I don't expect Kyler to light up the league with AJ Green and Kirk, but I do expect a certain level of competency which I don't feel like I saw. Same with the playoff game vs the Rams. It's not that the Cardinals lost, it is that Kyler had a all-time terrible performance. If you are a top 10 QB, you should rarely be flat out awful like Kyler was in moments last year, especially at the end of the season.

Through 3 Qrts Tom Brady was just as bad as Kyler.
Their defense forced turnovers and then HOF's Gronk and possible HOF Mike Evans made a few plays.

Bad Kyler, Bad Gameplan, worst opponent (Super Bowl champ) to play a 3rd time after getting humiliated by the 49ers the week before led to the disaster.

Kliff shouldnt have treated the Seahawks game like a preaseason game. Backfired tremendously as I think the entire outlook is different if we played the 49ers. Still may have lost, but didnt pose the same challenges.

Also Josh Allen threw 3 ints vs the Falcons and couldnt score a TD vs the Jaguars. He might be the best in the league. It happens.

 

[Chopper0080]

Through 3 Qrts Tom Brady was just as bad as Kyler.
Their defense forced turnovers and then HOF's Gronk and possible HOF Mike Evans made a few plays.

Bad Kyler, Bad Gameplan, worst opponent (Super Bowl champ) to play a 3rd time after getting humiliated by the 49ers the week before led to the disaster.

Kliff shouldnt have treated the Seahawks game like a preaseason game. Backfired tremendously as I think the entire outlook is different if we played the 49ers. Still may have lost, but didnt pose the same challenges.

Also Josh Allen threw 3 ints vs the Falcons and couldnt score a TD vs the Jaguars. He might be the best in the league. It happens.

15 attempts rushing for 81 yards and 2 TDs is probably why the Bills still beat the Falcons despite the 3 ints. Jags game was bad, but I think Allen's two playoff wins and 4500 yard, 37 td season in 2020 bought him a little grace.

Kyler doesn't belong in any conversation with Josh Allen and Tom Brady. And to pin Kyler's bad performances on Kliff is also garbage. That is babying of a top QB that I don't feel any other top QB gets.