What would you give for Kevin Love

[Jay Cardinal]

Outside of Phoenix, I don't think you will find many that think Green >>> Thompson and Morris >>> Lee.

Green had a great year, and could continue to develop. But Klay has quickly established himself as a starter and premier outside shooter. That is much more valuable than being an incredible dunker. I am glad we were able to acquire Green, he is one of the most entertaining players that we have. When he catches fire, he is among the best in the league. I do not feel he is nearly as consistent as Thompson in shooting ability.

David Lee is a great rebounder/offensive player. He has been doing it for years against starting PF's in the league. Markieff Morris has improved each year, but has done it for one year. He was pretty disappointing in his first 2 years. If Minnesota sees enough potential in him, then I am sure they will pursue him. If I am Minneosta I would prefer betting on developing a high draft pick, then betting on Morris becoming a franchise player you can build around.

I think Minnesota is going to want either a top-5 pick or a young player with tons of potential. I think Thompson is that type of player. I also think Dragic and Bledsoe would fit the bill. I can't see Minnesota building a deal around Green/Morris. Maybe as throw in players, but they need at least one solid player to build around.

 

[SO91]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologize if repeated.

Current rumors are Love, Martin and the 13th overall pick for Lee, Thompson and a future first rounder. Mychal Thompson the dad said on radio he hears the 13th overall pick from Minny is NOT part of the deal, no confirmation either way.

The other rumor is the Warriors would then try and trade Martin for Arron Afflalo, I assume they'd have to throw in a player or pick to get him.

Afflalo is one of my all time favorite UCLA players so I'd love that deal, although I do wish it was possible to get Love without giving up Thompson, but he's apparently demanding a max deal and they don't want to overpay.

Next year would be pretty interesting if Bogut could actually stay healthy, Bogut, Love, whoever at SF, Afflalo and Curry that's a pretty intriguing lineup the Warriors already had one of the better passing sets of bigs in the league and Love is as good a passer as Lee is but a much better outside shooter. Afflalo can't shoot it like Klay but is a better defender. He and Love never played together at UCLA but still would be pretty cool to have them both on my favorite NBA team.

Whoever at SF? Don't they still have Iguodala under contract to play the 3? That would be a pretty sweet lineup to watch play.

 

[elindholm]

This idea that Green is "developing" is nonsense. If per-36 stats are the way to look at a player's production, consider these three seasons from Green:

Season A: 17.1 pp36, 4.2 rp36, 1.7 ap36, 38% 3fg
Season B: 18.4 pp36, 5.0 rp36, 1.6 ap36, 39% 3fg
Season C: 20.0 pp36, 4.2 rp36, 1.9 ap36, 40% 3fg

It looks like maybe there's a slight tick upward, so that's promising, until you consider when those seasons were:

Season A: 2006-07 (Celtics)
Season B: 2011-12 (Nets)
Season C: 2013-14 (Suns)

So Green has improved his production maybe 10% in seven years.

A case can be made for Markieff as a significant trade asset, but every GM in the league would see Green as a throw-in.

(Having said that, I'd just as soon the Suns keep him and make him the SG, because I think there are higher priorities up and down the roster.)

 

[Russ Smith]

Whoever at SF? Don't they still have Iguodala under contract to play the 3? That would be a pretty sweet lineup to watch play.

Well he's not exactly young so there's been some talk locally that he might come off the bench this year depending on who they trade.

3 of his last 4 years he's played less than 70 games. He had a really nice year last year for sure but I guess there's some consideration they might start Barnes and bring him off the bench.

 

[HoodieBets]

Why would Minnesota want green back? That is like selling your house to someone then 2 years later buying back that house for 100k more.

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[SirStefan32]

Why would Minnesota want green back? That is like selling your house to someone then 2 years later buying back that house for 100k more.

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Because Slin said so! Geez, don't you know anything?

 

[sunsfan88]

How is Lee more valuable than Markieff Morris? You keep saying that but aren't providing any substantial proof that he is so much better.

Kieff does have more value than Lee but you don't actually think that Green is better than Thompson do you?

 

[Chaplin]

Kieff does have more value than Lee but you don't actually think that Green is better than Thompson do you?

Hmm, I don't think I mentioned Green and Thompson. I don't think their difference is that great either, but Thompson is probably slightly higher in value. Stefan said that Green/Morris is significantly worse than Lee/Thompson, and I disagree with that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This idea that Green is "developing" is nonsense. If per-36 stats are the way to look at a player's production, consider these three seasons from Green:

Season A: 17.1 pp36, 4.2 rp36, 1.7 ap36, 38% 3fg
Season B: 18.4 pp36, 5.0 rp36, 1.6 ap36, 39% 3fg
Season C: 20.0 pp36, 4.2 rp36, 1.9 ap36, 40% 3fg

It looks like maybe there's a slight tick upward, so that's promising, until you consider when those seasons were:

Season A: 2006-07 (Celtics)
Season B: 2011-12 (Nets)
Season C: 2013-14 (Suns)

So Green has improved his production maybe 10% in seven years.

A case can be made for Markieff as a significant trade asset, but every GM in the league would see Green as a throw-in.

(Having said that, I'd just as soon the Suns keep him and make him the SG, because I think there are higher priorities up and down the roster.)

Cherry picked stats. Eric. I expect better of you. Green was highly regarded early and valuable. Then his career went to Siberia. He resurrected it from the dead with the Suns.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why would Minnesota want green back? That is like selling your house to someone then 2 years later buying back that house for 100k more.

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Like we did with Goran or Steve Nash? It happens. Not saying than Minny would go for it. I am sure they want younger players with more upside. Green has some significant trade value, but I don't think its with Minny.

 

[HoodieBets]

Like we did with Goran or Steve Nash? It happens. Not saying than Minny would go for it. I am sure they want younger players with more upside. Green has some significant trade value, but I don't think its with Minny.

Nash was what a decade later lol and Goran was a deal where there wasn't a player like Kevin love we gave up to get him. uncomparable trades

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[elindholm]

Cherry picked stats. Eric. I expect better of you. Green was highly regarded early and valuable. Then his career went to Siberia. He resurrected it from the dead with the Suns.

Then how do you explain 2011-12 with the Nets?

Yes, of course the stats were cherry-picked; that was the point. Green isn't "developing"; he's been hot and cold throughout his career, with no overall upward trajectory, either recently or overall.

 

[BC867]

Morris is averaging 10 and 5 playing against second units and scrubs.

Markieff is an undersized Power Forward and sometimes backup Center. I do not believe that he would make us stronger as starting Power Forward.

But, for the record, he was not a starter but he was a finisher. And, quite often, going against Centers.

To say that he was playing against second units and scrubs does not give the full picture.

Edit: In fact, with Plumlee and Len on the bench during 4th quarters, Centers no longer going out to the land of the Guards to guard Frye and Tucker or Marcus playing Power Forward late in games in a small lineup, Markieff was going up against starting Centers with the game on the line.

But he is still an undersized player in a power position. And the same would be the case for David Lee.

 

[Phrazbit]

The idea that Green and Thompson are even remotely close in terms of trade value is laughable. I guarantee that no one outside of Phoenix would hold that view. Green had a nice year last year but he has done this routine before, he is as likely to get waived next spring as he is to improve upon that season. Thompson meanwhile is 4 years younger, shoots better than Green, is better defensively than Green, has been a steady producer his entire career and will be a restricted free agent in a year (as opposed to Green who will be unrestricted).

I hope that Horny has been the guy who finally turned Green into a steady player but I am not willing to steak much upon it, and I doubt many teams in the NBA would either.

 

[HoodieBets]

Just heard an interview with wojo where he said Minny might stay pat because GS won't trade klay and Harrison. Also said they are really the only team in the mix.

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[AzStevenCal]

The idea that Green and Thompson are even remotely close in terms of trade value is laughable. I guarantee that no one outside of Phoenix would hold that view. Green had a nice year last year but he has done this routine before, he is as likely to get waived next spring as he is to improve upon that season. Thompson meanwhile is 4 years younger, shoots better than Green, is better defensively than Green, has been a steady producer his entire career and will be a restricted free agent in a year (as opposed to Green who will be unrestricted).

I hope that Horny has been the guy who finally turned Green into a steady player but I am not willing to steak much upon it, and I doubt many teams in the NBA would either.

Did slin move to Phoenix? If not, you might be doing the good folks in the Valley an injustice. I think most people, Phoenicians or not, realize Thompson has real trade appeal and Green has very little.

However, I don't think the Green vs Thompson on-court comparison is as one sided as some posters do. Green can take over a game like only the truly elite can. I'd rather have Thompson as would the executives of every team in the NBA. But, fluke season or not, Gerald was arguably in Klay's class as a player last season. And while Thompson is younger, I'm not convinced he's going to improve all that much. Other than maybe improving some of the mental aspects of the game (team defense especially), I think he's pretty close to his ceiling.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't know why Green is even mentioned in this discussion other than a possible throw-in.

 

[slinslin]

Then how do you explain 2011-12 with the Nets?

Yes, of course the stats were cherry-picked; that was the point. Green isn't "developing"; he's been hot and cold throughout his career, with no overall upward trajectory, either recently or overall.

The Nets season was only 700 minutes...

Besides him falling off a cliff might have to do with the simple fact that after each season where he was on the verge of a breakout he was

1.) traded for Kevin Garnett and ended up in Minnesota
2.) after the Nets season ended up on of the slowest teams in the NBA, Indiana

Nobody is going to argue that Gerald Green is better in a fast pace system like the Suns, Warriors or even Spurs now then walking up the court and dumping the ball into George or Hibbert for iso-ball.

 

[slinslin]

Markieff is an undersized Power Forward and sometimes backup Center. I do not believe that he would make us stronger as starting Power Forward.


But he is still an undersized player in a power position. And the same would be the case for David Lee.

Your "undersized power forward" scores more points per post-up opportunity than the certainly not undersized Pau Gasol.

Do you even realize that last season Gasol was significantly less efficient in the post than Markieff?

PPP on post-ups:
Markieff 0.94 (360 plays)
Pau 0.83 (435 plays).

 

[ASUCHRIS]

How anybody can even compare these two is incredibly ridiculous. You compare a Honda to Toyota and Acura to Lexus, not Honda to Lexus, and Toyota to Acura. Good Lord, Lee and Morris are not even in the same league (other than both playing in the NBA, of course.)

No, your ludicrous auto analogy is ridiculous. If you polled most GM's whether they'd want Lee or Morris, considering their respective ages, upside and salaries, I guarantee the majority would want Morris. Lee is garbage, he's a poor mans Love who gets stats but doesn't markedly improve any team he's on.

I don't know why we're arguing the Morris/Thompson point, of course Thompson is much more regarded. That said, I think Thompson is highly overrated and would enjoy seeing his production outside of the GS system.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thompson is better than Green for the same reasons that Morris is better than Lee.

I still like having Green though. He is in a spot that finally suits him and I want to keep him around. Yes, I know Thompson has more trade value. I don't think anyone is arguing that. But the immediate impact on a team would be similar, if the team is similar to the Suns in style of play.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Thompson is better than Green for the same reasons that Morris is better than Lee.

I still like having Green though. He is in a spot that finally suits him and I want to keep him around. Yes, I know Thompson has more trade value. I don't think anyone is arguing that. But the immediate impact on a team would be similar, if the team is similar to the Suns in style of play.

Agreed.

Green is far more valuable to us than most teams because we play a style that melds perfectly with his talent.

It'll be really interesting to see what route we go this offseason, there are so many different variables and assets to use, the discussions among the FO have to be crazy.

 

[BC867]

Your "undersized power forward" scores more points per post-up opportunity than the certainly not undersized Pau Gasol.

Do you even realize that last season Gasol was significantly less efficient in the post than Markieff?

PPP on post-ups:
Markieff 0.94 (360 plays)
Pau 0.83 (435 plays).

OK, then add Pau to the list of Lee and Markieff as Power Forwards who would not lead the Suns to the promised land.

 

[Superbone]

Markieff is an undersized Power Forward and sometimes backup Center. I do not believe that he would make us stronger as starting Power Forward.

But, for the record, he was not a starter but he was a finisher. And, quite often, going against Centers.

To say that he was playing against second units and scrubs does not give the full picture.

Edit: In fact, with Plumlee and Len on the bench during 4th quarters, Centers no longer going out to the land of the Guards to guard Frye and Tucker or Marcus playing Power Forward late in games in a small lineup, Markieff was going up against starting Centers with the game on the line.

But he is still an undersized player in a power position. And the same would be the case for David Lee.

All good points, BC.

 

[sunsfan88]

No, your ludicrous auto analogy is ridiculous. If you polled most GM's whether they'd want Lee or Morris, considering their respective ages, upside and salaries, I guarantee the majority would want Morris. Lee is garbage, he's a poor mans Love who gets stats but doesn't markedly improve any team he's on.

I don't know why we're arguing the Morris/Thompson point, of course Thompson is much more regarded. That said, I think Thompson is highly overrated and would enjoy seeing his production outside of the GS system.

I like Kieff but you say that Lee is a poor man's Love. So what's Kieff? Poor man's Rasheed Wallace?