What would you give for Kevin Love

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think Green's market value is anywhere close to Klay's value so I'd leave him out of the deal. But I still think the Morris brothers along with three good picks from us beats the heck out of the Warriors offer. AFAIC, Lee has negative value and Thompson is decent but he's not special.

Steve

I don't think the league thinks much of the Morri. Markieff finished 4th in 6th man voting and his brother is just a non-entity. And none of our picks are all that high. At least with Thompson Minny can at least hope for a bona-fide star there and Lee is a 19/9 guy they can try and sell their fans on. Plus a 1st round pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just don't understand why Wolves would want Lee. 31 years old on a terrible contract. I suppose they think they can make some additional moves/ signings and make the playoffs perhaps?

I want their draft pick. As I said before, Love has carried them to nothing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I want their draft pick. As I said before, Love has carried them to nothing.

He's only 25 years old, he plays in the very loaded Western Conference and he's had very little talent surrounding him. Unless you count Lebron as a four, I can't think of a single power forward that wouldn't have likely met the same fate in Minnesota. There have been a few big men that were good enough to take bad teams to the playoffs but they are few and far between. Love isn't a player for the ages like Wilt or Shaq or Kareem and he'd have to be to lead that mess anywhere.

I know PER isn't everything but his is 5.5 points higher than Goran who just came off a magical season. Even without Bledsoe, I think Dragic had more talent around him than Love did and he didn't lead his team to the playoffs either.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think the league thinks much of the Morri. Markieff finished 4th in 6th man voting and his brother is just a non-entity. And none of our picks are all that high. At least with Thompson Minny can at least hope for a bona-fide star there and Lee is a 19/9 guy they can try and sell their fans on. Plus a 1st round pick.

Considering that Manu had a pretty good season and he finished 3rd, I'm not sure that finishing 4th is an indication that Markieff isn't highly regarded. For what little it's worth, I do know that he is consistently praised by the opposing announcing crews. Thompson is one of the better shooting guards and he's not too far from being a star already but some of that is just because overall it's a pretty weak position in the NBA these days. If Lee was making 10 million a year this deal would look a lot better IMO. OTOH, maybe they have nowhere else to spent that money.

Steve

 

[Sunburn]

I think if we included Dragic or Bledsoe, our trade package blows GS's, or anyone for that matter, out of the water. Just my humble opinion.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't think the league thinks much of the Morri. Markieff finished 4th in 6th man voting and his brother is just a non-entity. And none of our picks are all that high. At least with Thompson Minny can at least hope for a bona-fide star there and Lee is a 19/9 guy they can try and sell their fans on. Plus a 1st round pick.

I don't know man...While I've criticized the Morri a lot, Kieff did show a lot of improvement last year. (Granted, it was only for one year, but at least gives you some hope)

I guess I just don't get why Minny would find the GS offer that intriguing. I just don't see Thompson being a star. He's a very good player, but I think he'll always have limitations because he isn't a great athlete. I think Goran has to have more value, even at a few years older.

Getting Lee is the ultimate fools gold - he's Gortat. (Not a compliment)

Both guys are ok - they play a lot of minutes, and put up numbers, but you don't want to pay either of those guys max/near max money. Lee simply doesn't do enough to merit his contract.

I think we could put together a more attractive package, especially if we were willing to include Goran. Goran is one of my favorite players, but he'll be another guy making max/near max money after next year. I like him at 8-11 mil, but 13-18 million? Yikes.

I think Goran/Morri, and maybe a pick or two should do it. The NBA is a star league, and the fact is we're unlikely to have a shot at a player the caliber of Love for awhile. I hope we make a major effort to get him.

 

[slinslin]

Klay Thompson in in the same tier as shooting guards like Gerald Green ( was better last year), Aaron Afflalo (was better last year) or Wes Matthews.

Also Klay Thompson is 24, it is not like he is just 20 and still expected to develop into a complete player now.

If the Wolves trade Love for Thompson only to then sign Thompson to the maximum because that will be the only way to keep him there, then they deserve to stink forever.

 

[SirStefan32]

We as Suns fans have a history of overestimating the value of our players, but this Green+Morris> Thompson and Lee is one of the worst examples I've ever seen. If I am trying to shed salaries is the only scenario in which Green+Morris are even remotely close to Thompson and Lee.

 

[slinslin]

We as Suns fans have a history of overestimating the value of our players, but this Green+Morris> Thompson and Lee is one of the worst examples I've ever seen. If I am trying to shed salaries is the only scenario in which Green+Morris are even remotely close to Thompson and Lee.

That is because you are freaking clueless when it comes to statistical analysis.

There is nothing biased or "overestimating" when analysing statistics.

Markieff Morris ranks 39th in the entire league among qualified players (24+mpg) in PER
David Lee ranks only a few spots ahead of him and is 7 years older and makes 6x as much money.

Gerald Green beats out Klay Thompson in almost any metric you can pull up.

And our pick package is better than whatever the Warriors can offer.

The only reason our package does not get talked about as much is because the media does not fancy us, not enough national coverage in the last years. Same reason why Markieff only ends up 4th in 6th man voting and McDonough and Hornacek don't win awards either.

Most GMs are smarter than that, Flip Saunders might not be, that is unfortunate.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That is because you are freaking clueless when it comes to statistical analysis.

There is nothing biased or "overestimating" when analysing statistics.

Markieff Morris ranks 39th in the entire league among qualified players (24+mpg) in PER
David Lee ranks only a few spots ahead of him and is 7 years older and makes 6x as much money.

Gerald Green beats out Klay Thompson in almost any metric you can pull up.

And our pick package is better than whatever the Warriors can offer.

The only reason our package does not get talked about as much is because the media does not fancy us, not enough national coverage in the last years. Same reason why Markieff only ends up 4th in 6th man voting and McDonough and Hornacek don't win awards either.

Most GMs are smarter than that, Flip Saunders might not be, that is unfortunate.

Well, that and the fact our package is likely the product of imagination. Love has shown no interest in us and we are not one of the teams that he reportedly would extend with. Given that, I really doubt that McDonough has offered a package that would warrant anyone's attention.

I really don't think your comments about Green, Markieff, Lee and Thompson are all that unrealistic. However, we're talking about market value not 2013 performance. Thompson has far more market value right now than Green does. I don't think anyone is going to treat Green like a borderline star on the basis of one season given his history (nor should they).

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Love has not shown any interest in anybody.

All we hear is again media and their "sources" claim that Love wants to go to LA. Because as usual talking about LA as a destination is much more attractive than talking about a move to Phoenix. Especially since Carmelo and Paul that they media notoriously wants to bring up everytime that star players only want to go to the biggest markets, despite Lebron and Howard doing the opposite.

Of course nobody treats Green as a borderline star, but he was better than Thompson last year and Thompson is no-where near a star in the making himself. His improvements in 3 years are actually relatively minor.

Green does not have Thompsons value but it is a lot closer than people think as he was better than him. Markieff should certainly have more value than 31yro David Lee as he is on a career projection that is similiar to Lee and he is already very close to matching his production.
And our picks are much better than what Golden State can offer. Overall the package we can offer should be better.

Markieff SHOULD have more value than Thompson, they are the same age too, same contract situation.

And last but not least I can't see Minnesota being able to extend Klay Thompson unless they overpay him a lot while extending the Morris twins for actual market value should be more realistic.

 

[SirStefan32]

Geez, it's fine to be a homer, but this is ridiculous.
Markieff freaking Morris more valuable than Lee or Thompson. What's next?
According to you, Slin, Morris twins and Green should probably get us Lebron James. Toss in Bledsoe and some scrub and we could get Kevin Durant, probably according to how much Slin overvalues our players.

 

[Chaplin]

Geez, it's fine to be a homer, but this is ridiculous.
Markieff freaking Morris more valuable than Lee or Thompson. What's next?
According to you, Slin, Morris twins and Green should probably get us Lebron James. Toss in Bledsoe and some scrub and we could get Kevin Durant, probably according to how much Slin overvalues our players.

How is Lee more valuable than Markieff Morris? You keep saying that but aren't providing any substantial proof that he is so much better.

 

[Mainstreet]

Factor in age and salary, Markieff is more than Lee. One could argue that Lee's salary represents a negative value in a trade.

 

[SirStefan32]

Because he is a freaking two-time NBA All Star, averaging almost 17 and 11 for his career.

Morris is averaging 10 and 5 playing against second units and scrubs.

How anybody can even compare these two is incredibly ridiculous. You compare a Honda to Toyota and Acura to Lexus, not Honda to Lexus, and Toyota to Acura. Good Lord, Lee and Morris are not even in the same league (other than both playing in the NBA, of course.)

 

[SirStefan32]

Factor in age and salary, Markieff is more than Lee. One could argue that Lee's salary represents a negative value in a trade.

That's a different argument though. Would I take Morris at $3M per year over Lee at $15M? Abso-freaking-lutely. Anyone who wouldn't is insane.

Could Morris turn into a better player than lee? Sure, it's not likely but it is possible. Lee is NOT going to get any better, and Morris is still improving, so there is a possibility.

However, the argument is over who is a better player right now. The idea that Wolves (or anybody in their right mind) would pick Morris and Green over lee and Thompson is beyond insane.

 

[KloD]

For someone to say, "There is nothing biased or "overestimating" when analysing statistics." while calling someone, "freaking clueless when it comes to statistical analysis." has got to be one of the more ignorant and funny things I've ever read on this board.

I like Markieff, but he is frustratingly inconsistent and his sample size is small. Not only would I like to see him show what he did last season for a few years, but I'd like to see more consistency on a nightly basis. He's young and I believe he will get better, but I too feel he's being overvalued on this board. I'm not a David Lee fan, but his sample size is much larger and he has produced consistently. If I had to choose between the two, I'd prefer Markieff mostly due to his age and potential. But, if I was Minn. I'd take the GS package of Thompson and Lee over a package of Markieff and Green.

 

[slinslin]

Could Morris turn into a better player than lee? Sure, it's not likely but it is possible. Lee is NOT going to get any better, and Morris is still improving, so there is a possibility.
.

Bwahahaha yeah it is totally unlikely considering Markieff has gotten better every season and just had a season that was better than David Lee at the same age and in terms of production is already close to what David Lee does right now.


Markieff per 36 18.6 8.1 2.4 56.4%TS 18.6PER
Lee per 36 19.8 10.1 2.3 56.6%TS 19.1PER

One is 24 years old making 3.000.000 the other is 31 making 15.000.000 or so.

Clearly Markieff Morris is not more valueable while putting up almost the same production already.

 

[Russ Smith]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologize if repeated.

Current rumors are Love, Martin and the 13th overall pick for Lee, Thompson and a future first rounder. Mychal Thompson the dad said on radio he hears the 13th overall pick from Minny is NOT part of the deal, no confirmation either way.

The other rumor is the Warriors would then try and trade Martin for Arron Afflalo, I assume they'd have to throw in a player or pick to get him.

Afflalo is one of my all time favorite UCLA players so I'd love that deal, although I do wish it was possible to get Love without giving up Thompson, but he's apparently demanding a max deal and they don't want to overpay.

Next year would be pretty interesting if Bogut could actually stay healthy, Bogut, Love, whoever at SF, Afflalo and Curry that's a pretty intriguing lineup the Warriors already had one of the better passing sets of bigs in the league and Love is as good a passer as Lee is but a much better outside shooter. Afflalo can't shoot it like Klay but is a better defender. He and Love never played together at UCLA but still would be pretty cool to have them both on my favorite NBA team.

 

[slinslin]

Because he is a freaking two-time NBA All Star, averaging almost 17 and 11 for his career.

Morris is averaging 10 and 5 playing against second units and scrubs.

How anybody can even compare these two is incredibly ridiculous. You compare a Honda to Toyota and Acura to Lexus, not Honda to Lexus, and Toyota to Acura. Good Lord, Lee and Morris are not even in the same league (other than both playing in the NBA, of course.)

Career averages

Perfect way to compare a player still on his rookie deal to a 31 year old.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For someone to say, "There is nothing biased or "overestimating" when analysing statistics." while calling someone, "freaking clueless when it comes to statistical analysis." has got to be one of the more ignorant and funny things I've ever read on this board.

I like Markieff, but he is frustratingly inconsistent and his sample size is small. Not only would I like to see him show what he did last season for a few years, but I'd like to see more consistency on a nightly basis. He's young and I believe he will get better, but I too feel he's being overvalued on this board. I'm not a David Lee fan, but his sample size is much larger and he has produced consistently. If I had to choose between the two, I'd prefer Markieff mostly due to his age and potential. But, if I was Minn. I'd take the GS package of Thompson and Lee over a package of Markieff and Green.

I would too although Lee's contract makes them fairly close in value. Close enough, IMO, that the draft picks we've talked about in this thread move the deal in our favor.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

Love has not shown any interest in anybody.

All we hear is again media and their "sources" claim that Love wants to go to LA. Because as usual talking about LA as a destination is much more attractive than talking about a move to Phoenix. Especially since Carmelo and Paul that they media notoriously wants to bring up everytime that star players only want to go to the biggest markets, despite Lebron and Howard doing the opposite.

Of course nobody treats Green as a borderline star, but he was better than Thompson last year and Thompson is no-where near a star in the making himself. His improvements in 3 years are actually relatively minor.

Green does not have Thompsons value but it is a lot closer than people think as he was better than him. Markieff should certainly have more value than 31yro David Lee as he is on a career projection that is similiar to Lee and he is already very close to matching his production.
And our picks are much better than what Golden State can offer. Overall the package we can offer should be better.

Markieff SHOULD have more value than Thompson, they are the same age too, same contract situation.

And last but not least I can't see Minnesota being able to extend Klay Thompson unless they overpay him a lot while extending the Morris twins for actual market value should be more realistic.

The reason people think he wants to play in LA is he chose UCLA specifically because he had family in LA, he's related to the Love of Beach Boys fame and while he grew up in Oregon he spent lots of time as a kid in LA.

I'm sure the Lakers history plays a role too as did UCLA(hell they gave him Walt Hazzard's retired number at UCLA) but the primary reason people assume LA is simply he has family there.

 

[slinslin]

Zach Lowe along with Woj is one of the most respected NBA guys out there and he thinks the same

D.J. Foster ‏@fosterdj

I still think Phoenix is the ideal partner for Minnesota. Better picks to offer, and I think Markieff Morris is every bit as good as Lee.

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 19 Std.

@fosterdj Was texting with some execs today saying I'm surprised PHX has not come up more.

 

[Superbone]

The whole Lee/Thompson vs Morris/Green debate is moot. Sounds like the GSW/MT deal is going down. I guess at least it helps pass the time until the draft. So there's that.

 

[SirStefan32]

Sounds like the GSW/MT deal is going down.

If only the Suns would offer them Markieff Morris and Gerald Green, the Phoenix- Minnesota deal would be done within minutes. GSW can't POSSIBLY offer anything worth more than the Mighty Kieff and Green.