When will people critically analyze Kobe Bryant's playoff performances?

[cobbler]

The Kobe versus Jordan thing is not even debatable. Jordan is the best player to ever play the game IMO. Did he have faults? Yep and so does every hall of fame player to date. They all had faults in their games and hiccups in their careers. It doesn't make them any less great. So why does someone have to state that in order for their opinion not to be dismissed as "being sheepish because everybody else says so" type thing? I think it's common knowledge no basketball player despite how great wasn't perfect.

My litmus test when it comes to Jordan and Kobe is that when Jordan was on top of his game he made the other teams stars inconsequential. When Jordan came up against another star he just seemed to elevate his game that much more. Not every single time but often enough to make your jaw drop.

Kobe is a great player in the league and is arguably the best player in the NBA. When Jordan was at the top of his game there was no debate.

I hated the Bulls with a passion at the time to. So being a "hater" doesn't mean I don't recognize how great a player is. Kobe is not and never will be on the same level as MJ.

Jordan did not hit his prime or win his first championship until he was Kobes age this year. Jordan was the first real megastar of the media age and a media darling no matter his faults. Others will follow and surpass his numbers. It's a given. You cannot compare eras and it is as simple as that. Why does everyone have to compare them anyway? Why can't we just appreciate or hate Kobe for him as opposed to him compared to MJ? It's meaningless. Just as comparing MJ to the big "O" who IMO is the greatest guard of all time.

 

[cobbler]

MJ reg season career scoring avg= 30.1 ppg
playoff scoring avg= 33.4 ppg
-----------------------------
Kobe reg season career scoring avg= 25.0 ppg
playoff career scoring avg= 24.3 ppg

Different eras, different talent in the league, different rules, moot point.

 

[Gee!]

Different eras, different talent in the league, different rules, moot point.

Your such a peach..

 

[cly2tw]

If I recall properly, MJ didn't have as much competition on the wing position as we have today. Kobe, LBJ, Wade, Pierce, TMac, Melo, Carter are all better than Drexler, JR Ryder, LJ, and who else made the allstar games back then. It's meaningless comparison IMO.

 

[passenger]

The Kobe versus Jordan thing is not even debatable. Jordan is the best player to ever play the game IMO. Did he have faults? Yep and so does every hall of fame player to date. They all had faults in their games and hiccups in their careers. It doesn't make them any less great. So why does someone have to state that in order for their opinion not to be dismissed as "being sheepish because everybody else says so" type thing? I think it's common knowledge no basketball player despite how great wasn't perfect.

My litmus test when it comes to Jordan and Kobe is that when Jordan was on top of his game he made the other teams stars inconsequential. When Jordan came up against another star he just seemed to elevate his game that much more. Not every single time but often enough to make your jaw drop.

Kobe is a great player in the league and is arguably the best player in the NBA. When Jordan was at the top of his game there was no debate.

I hated the Bulls with a passion at the time to. So being a "hater" doesn't mean I don't recognize how great a player is. Kobe is not and never will be on the same level as MJ.

very well said.

i was always rooting against bulls,wanted stockton to get a ring,but MJ is the best ever without question.

if one says MJ and Kobe are close or start arguing who s better,it's like saying luke walton is toni kukoc

 

[passenger]

Different eras, different talent in the league, different rules, moot point.

Then for the same reason we can argue if Kwame Brown is maybe better than Bill Russell,since it's different league,rules,eras,teammates.

 

[cobbler]

Then for the same reason we can argue if Kwame Brown is maybe better than Bill Russell,since it's different league,rules,eras,teammates.

Come on. Using the absurd as an argument is ... well, absurd.

 

[Gee!]

Jordan vs Bird 63 .. The greatest of all time..

 

[Ryanwb]

Then for the same reason we can argue if Kwame Brown is maybe better than Bill Russell,since it's different league,rules,eras,teammates.

Why would anyone argue that, even in a vacuum?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jordan did not hit his prime or win his first championship until he was Kobes age this year.

MJ turned 28 in February the won his first title. Kobe's going to 30 in a month and a half. That means Michael was actually a year and a half year younger than Kobe is now when he won his first title and he probably hit his prime probably a year or two before that when he started taking average Bulls teams to the ECF in back to back years before getting to the Finals and never losing there (or anywhere else besides 1995 and if you're going to count that as anything... well, i don't know what to say). I believe it was you who said to me "get your facts straight" in another thread, right? Why don't you practice what you preach?

 

[Cheesebeef]

If I recall properly, MJ didn't have as much competition on the wing position as we have today. Kobe, LBJ, Wade, Pierce, TMac, Melo, Carter are all better than Drexler, JR Ryder, LJ, and who else made the allstar games back then. It's meaningless comparison IMO.

wow, people really don't remember how incredible the NBA was back then. Only Kobe and Bron in this era were as good as Drexler and Dominque. How does Ryder or LJ even enter this conversation?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Look up Russell, Bill.

yeah, I thought about that - and you''e probably right. so, one other player did what Jordan did.

 

[Ryanwb]

I would also add that Kobe's an old 30, he is already in his 12th season. Jordan didn't play 82 games from the time he was 18- 30 years old. I also think Garnett's age is catching up to him in the same way. Moses Malone is a terrible reference because he was a fat ass, but I really think Kobe, Garnett and the other high school - NBA players will decline much more quickly and much earlier due to the wear and tear.

JMHO

 

[cobbler]

wow, people really don't remember how incredible the NBA was back then. Only Kobe and Bron in this era were as good as Drexler and Dominque. How does Ryder or LJ even enter this conversation?

I always felt Jordan was fortunate to come into the league as the superstar 80's teams and players were on the decline and the league became a little watered down.

I honestly do not believe the Bulls team would win 6 titles in the 80's against the showtime lakers or bird celts. But again, it's so subjective to compare eras.

 

[Gee!]

I always felt Jordan was fortunate to come into the league as the superstar 80's teams and players were on the decline and the league became a little watered down.

I honestly do not believe the Bulls team would win 6 titles in the 80's against the showtime lakers or bird celts. But again, it's so subjective to compare eras.

So you saying the best bball player has no business playing teams a few years removed? You truely are a troll..

 

[Ryanwb]

I always felt Jordan was fortunate to come into the league as the superstar 80's teams and players were on the decline and the league became a little watered down.

I honestly do not believe the Bulls team would win 6 titles in the 80's against the showtime lakers or bird celts. But again, it's so subjective to compare eras.

Wow!

So Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley, Kemp, Payton, Malone, Stockton were watered down? I'm sorry but if anything the 90's was MORE competative than the 80's

I'm sorry dude, but you are very much a homer

 

[cobbler]

MJ turned 28 in February the won his first title. Kobe's going to 30 in a month and a half. That means Michael was actually a year and a half year younger than Kobe is now when he won his first title and he probably hit his prime probably a year or two before that when he started taking average Bulls teams to the ECF in back to back years before getting to the Finals and never losing there (or anywhere else besides 1995 and if you're going to count that as anything... well, i don't know what to say). I believe it was you who said to me "get your facts straight" in another thread, right? Why don't you practice what you preach?

Ouuuuch! I was off by a year. My bad. I haven't considered half years since I was maybe 6 so I'll have to give that one to you. My point was that Kobe has some time left to accomplish a lot more and now has a team that is capable. They had such opposite careers in that way. MJ had to have his team develop for 5 or 6 years for him to get to chamoionship level and Kobe won some early. Now Kobe, for the last 3 years had to do what MJ did early. Yes he has a lot of wear and tear, but also has been very good about keeping healthy. Time will tell...

 

[Gee!]

I gotta ask Peachie.. How old are you? You seem to have never watched the NBA when it was great.. This is a serious question..

 

[Ryanwb]

I gotta ask Peachie.. How old are you? You seem to have never watched the NBA when it was great.. This is a serious question..

i was going to ask the same thing, for the same reason. He's either very old and the 90's escaped him, or very young and the 90's escaped him

 

[cobbler]

Wow!

So Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley, Kemp, Payton, Malone, Stockton were watered down? I'm sorry but if anything the 90's was MORE competative than the 80's

I'm sorry dude, but you are very much a homer

All great players... but other than Akeem and his championship rockets teams I dont feel any of the others hang in the 80's. I am not talking the players....but teams.

Knicks, Seatlle(with payton), and Jazz never won for a reason.

So you honestly think if you put that bulls team in the 80's they win all 6?

WOW!

 

[Ryanwb]

All great players... but other than Akeem and his championship rockets teams I dont feel any of the others hang in the 80's. I am not talking the players....but teams.

You just told me your age and half admitted to me that you didn't watch any basketball in the 90's. Akeem, changed him name to Hakeem in the 90's. I put you at about 54 years old based up on this.

 

[cobbler]

i was going to ask the same thing, for the same reason. He's either very old and the 90's escaped him, or very young and the 90's escaped him

Probably twice your age.

I attended my first laker game in 1965. I also played the game both here and internationally for 20+ years at a high level. I know basketball even though your Laker hatred probably makes you dislike me enough to not consider giving me any credit. As if i really cared anyway.

I'm 51

 

[Gee!]

Probably twice your age.

I attended my first laker game in 1965. I also played the game both here and internationally for 20+ years at a high level. I know basketball even though your Laker hatred probably makes you dislike me enough to not consider giving me any credit. As if i really cared anyway.

I'm 51

WOW!

And your on a Suns board acting the way you are? Dont you have grankids that need butterscotch treats? Or are you a bitter old man that has nothing?

 

[cobbler]

You just told me your age and half admitted to me that you didn't watch any basketball in the 90's. Akeem, changed him name to Hakeem in the 90's. I put you at about 54 years old based up on this.

I have watched every year... have had season tix since 1970 thru today. I typed akeem simply to cause I didnt want to spell his last name. Akeem, Hakeem... come on. What's the point?

 

[Ryanwb]

Probably twice your age.

I attended my first laker game in 1965. I also played the game both here and internationally for 20+ years at a high level. I know basketball even though your Laker hatred probably makes you dislike me enough to not consider giving me any credit. As if i really cared anyway.

I'm 51

if you were twice my age you'd be just about retirement age... but you are old enough to by my father as my dad is about 8 years older than you