Which team will be the best fit for our ex-HC.

[RugbyMuffin]

He didn't destroy this team Thesmel. He hand picked 2 bad QBs to succeed Warner and sunk with the ship. That same thing happens to many NFL HCs when the QB fails. That's reality dude.

Oh, it was just the QB ?

Really?

How many years did we stick with Levi Brown, and who brought Levi Brown into the organization in the first place ?

How about Rex Hadnot, Alan Fanica, and Adam Snyder ?

Who brought in coaches like Bill Davis, Mike Miller, and Russ Grimm ? ...........well, and Ray Horton, gotta give him props for that one

Who decided that Ryan Lindley was the best man for the job ?

Do we have to talk about the inside linebacker position as well ? Or the cornerback position ?

SMH.

I will never understand the Cardinal fan logic of whomever is a current Cardinal is the worst of the worst, and whomever is not a current Cardinals is the best of the best, and someone who used to be a Cardinal is a future HOF. Yes, that statement is riddled with hyperbole, but it holds a lot of water as well.

Whiz was a good coach, did a lot to turn this ship around, but also did a hell of a lot to cause himself to be fired, and rightfully so, IMO.

His last two year here were HORRIBLE! If that makes me a jerk and a hater, so be it. Guilt trips don't work on this poster.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Give Whisenhunt a roster loaded with quality players and he'll win. Just don't let him pick the players.

Agreed. 100%

As an aside: Did the Cardinals really once start a Defensive line composed of Fred Wakefield, Barron Tanner, Russell Davis and Tom Burke?

That is enough out of you !

Stay on topic. Save those stories for Halloween time. LOL, Tom Burke.

 

[Darkside]

I'm assuming (always dangerous) that nobody had a problem with Whis for his first 3 years here when he completely turned around the franchise and gained us national respect and a SB birth. That being the case, the fact that we're still discussing his future, after a 10-win season with another coach and a turned over roster, suggests that he had a huge impact on this franchise and its fan base.

Sure, he had some issues choosing personnel, I'm quite sure he's professional enough and man enough to admit his mistakes--but if you're going to give him credit for the bad then also recognize that our core players on the current roster are mostly players THAT HE PICKED. If you want to say he chose Kolb (or any other players who didn't pan out) then I'll give you a PP or a Campbell or a DWash, who are core leaders on this team. He perhaps let it get away from him, but I think his intention was correct--fix the defense that lost us a SB and get back to the dance. If I could choose only one flaw it would be the hubris in thinking he could magically create an offense and chose to focus all his attention on fixing our putrid defense.

Having said all that, I don't really much care what people think about Whis. We're all the same dudes who were rooting for perennial losers every year, so what the hell do we know? We wouldn't know a winner if it walked into town and smacked us in the face Buddy Ryan style. What's more important is what Michael Bidwill learned from the process and from his selection and obviously he learned a lot. He learned what he could work with, what he couldn't work with, he learned the skill-sets he appreciated and didn't so much appreciate. Whisenhunt was a win-win for us in every sense of the word.

And it's comical how some people will say he took Denny's roster to a SB but that Bowles somehow used a flawed roster that Whis built and turned it into some type of dynasty. Whis put that foundation in place.

 

[Shane]

I'm assuming (always dangerous) that nobody had a problem with Whis for his first 3 years here when he completely turned around the franchise and gained us national respect and a SB birth. That being the case, the fact that we're still discussing his future, after a 10-win season with another coach and a turned over roster, suggests that he had a huge impact on this franchise and its fan base.

Sure, he had some issues choosing personnel, I'm quite sure he's professional enough and man enough to admit his mistakes--but if you're going to give him credit for the bad then also recognize that our core players on the current roster are mostly players THAT HE PICKED. If you want to say he chose Kolb (or any other players who didn't pan out) then I'll give you a PP or a Campbell or a DWash, who are core leaders on this team. He perhaps let it get away from him, but I think his intention was correct--fix the defense that lost us a SB and get back to the dance. If I could choose only one flaw it would be the hubris in thinking he could magically create an offense and chose to focus all his attention on fixing our putrid defense.

Having said all that, I don't really much care what people think about Whis. We're all the same dudes who were rooting for perennial losers every year, so what the hell do we know? We wouldn't know a winner if it walked into town and smacked us in the face Buddy Ryan style. What's more important is what Michael Bidwill learned from the process and from his selection and obviously he learned a lot. He learned what he could work with, what he couldn't work with, he learned the skill-sets he appreciated and didn't so much appreciate. Whisenhunt was a win-win for us in every sense of the word.

And it's comical how some people will say he took Denny's roster to a SB but that Bowles somehow used a flawed roster that Whis built and turned it into some type of dynasty. Whis put that foundation in place.

Solid post right there!

 

[desertdawg]

I was all about Whiz getting the ax, and for good reasons. I won't look it up, but anybody that watched those last few years knows we were horrible most times, defense pretty much lived on the field.

Todd Haley isn't on the Chargers, Warner didn't un-retire to lead to lead the whale's vagina to the playoffs. I think I even heard Whiz (and his clock management Rugby! ) led the NFL in Time Of Possession!!!! That's just crazy right there, the balanced pay call we all begged Whiz for is alive and well in bolt country... what the hell?

If Whiz goes to HC a team that already has a good QB, Whiz will not ruin him. If Whiz picks out the QB, than he was ruined a long time ago, and just didn't know it. Whiz drafted pretty well aside from QBs, Arians knows this.

 

[Darkside]

I was all about Whiz getting the ax, and for good reasons. I won't look it up, but anybody that watched those last few years knows we were horrible most times, defense pretty much lived on the field.

Todd Haley isn't on the Chargers, Warner didn't un-retire to lead to lead the whale's vagina to the playoffs. I think I even heard Whiz (and his clock management Rugby! ) led the NFL in Time Of Possession!!!! That's just crazy right there, the balanced pay call we all begged Whiz for is alive and well in bolt country... what the hell?

If Whiz goes to HC a team that already has a good QB, Whiz will not ruin him. If Whiz picks out the QB, than he was ruined a long time ago, and just didn't know it. Whiz drafted pretty well aside from QBs, Arians knows this.

Your last paragraph is awesome.

Whis has done a good job with Rivers:

2012 fumbles: 15 (!), 2013 fumbles: 3 (!)
2012 completion %: 64.1, 2013 completion %: 69.5 (this is a huge leap if you think about it)
2012 yards per attempt: 6.8, 2013 yards per attempt: 8.2
2012 QB rating: 88.6, 2013 QB rating: 105.5 (!)
2012 QBR: 40.57, 2013 QBR: 71.69 (!)
2012 sacks: 49, 2013 sacks: 30
This is a good one: 2012 yards lost on sacks: 311 (!!!), 2013 yards lost on sacks: 150
Another good one: 2012 4th quarter comebacks: 0, 2013 4th quarter comebacks: 4
Along with: 2012 game winning drives: 0, 2013 game winning drives: 4

So yeah I guess he won't ruin a good QB and in some areas can even improve his performance.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think it's funny that everyone blames Whiz for the QB choices while acting like he had his pick of the litter out there. It's been pointed out many times that there was nothing but garbage available to play QB. Kolb was generally considered the best QB available but he turned into an injury-prone disaster.

Palmer was not available and neither was any other QB of significance. People will point to Russell Wilson but they may as well point to Tom Brady because both are huge exceptions to the rule.

I still think that Whiz had the Cards at the brink of the playoffs with a concussed Kolb and rookie Skelton at the helm is amazing.

He went 5-2 Skelton as a rookie QB and should have been 6-1 if Roberts stays on his feet in Cincy. Yep that's a pretty terrible coaching job.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

I think it's funny that everyone blames Whiz for the QB choices while acting like he had his pick of the litter out there. It's been pointed out many times that there was nothing but garbage available to play QB. Kolb was generally considered the best QB available but he turned into an injury-prone disaster.

Palmer was not available and neither was any other QB of significance. People will point to Russell Wilson but they may as well point to Tom Brady because both are huge exceptions to the rule.

I still think that Whiz had the Cards at the brink of the playoffs with a concussed Kolb and rookie Skelton at the helm is amazing.

He went 5-2 Skelton as a rookie QB and should have been 6-1 if Doucet stays on his feet in Cincy. Yep that's a pretty terrible coaching job.

FIFY

Good post.

Also, we didn't have the pick to take Wilson, really. We could have picked him in the first, of course, but nobody was going there. We didn't have a second, and our third was after Seattle's. (Though our third was Fleming. Eeeeeesh.)

 

[desertdawg]

I think it's funny that everyone blames Whiz for the QB choices while acting like he had his pick of the litter out there. It's been pointed out many times that there was nothing but garbage available to play QB. Kolb was generally considered the best QB available but he turned into an injury-prone disaster.

Palmer was not available and neither was any other QB of significance. People will point to Russell Wilson but they may as well point to Tom Brady because both are huge exceptions to the rule.

I still think that Whiz had the Cards at the brink of the playoffs with a concussed Kolb and rookie Skelton at the helm is amazing.

He went 5-2 Skelton as a rookie QB and should have been 6-1 if Roberts stays on his feet in Cincy. Yep that's a pretty terrible coaching job.

One of the things Whiz did was pick lousy QBs in lousy rounds and free agency, that's just the way it went down.

 

[jefftheshark]

I think it's funny that everyone blames Whiz for the QB choices while acting like he had his pick of the litter out there. It's been pointed out many times that there was nothing but garbage available to play QB. Kolb was generally considered the best QB available but he turned into an injury-prone disaster.

Palmer was not available and neither was any other QB of significance. People will point to Russell Wilson but they may as well point to Tom Brady because both are huge exceptions to the rule.

I still think that Whiz had the Cards at the brink of the playoffs with a concussed Kolb and rookie Skelton at the helm is amazing.

He went 5-2 Skelton as a rookie QB and should have been 6-1 if Roberts stays on his feet in Cincy. Yep that's a pretty terrible coaching job.

I think that Whiz was the "Anti-Denny Green" in that he was great at the X's & O's yet had glaring issues when it came to personnel. Green was, of course, the opposite. When Denny was fired it was mainly because he'd assembled a Super Bowl calibre roster yet could not coach them into the playoffs.

Green could operate (with a strong OC) under a weak GM. Whiz, IMO can not.

Once again, and this just my opinion, but Whiz was the collateral damage that occurred when the owners decided they needed to jettison Graves. He wasn't let go because he was incompetent - just not good enough in areas that weren't really in his original job description.

JTS

 

[TJ]

I think it'll just be simpler if all parties stuck with the facts--Whiz turned the culture of the franchise around and raised the expectations for all fans, which is what the haters are using to make their points (irony at its finest).. Without Whiz, the lofty expectations aren't there. It's just that simple.

 

[Shane]

I think it's funny that everyone blames Whiz for the QB choices while acting like he had his pick of the litter out there. It's been pointed out many times that there was nothing but garbage available to play QB. Kolb was generally considered the best QB available but he turned into an injury-prone disaster.

Palmer was not available and neither was any other QB of significance. People will point to Russell Wilson but they may as well point to Tom Brady because both are huge exceptions to the rule.

I still think that Whiz had the Cards at the brink of the playoffs with a concussed Kolb and rookie Skelton at the helm is amazing.

He went 5-2 Skelton as a rookie QB and should have been 6-1 if Roberts stays on his feet in Cincy. Yep that's a pretty terrible coaching job.

Great post!

But for the 2nd time it wasn't Roberts FYI. It was Doucet.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think that Whiz was the "Anti-Denny Green" in that he was great at the X's & O's yet had glaring issues when it came to personnel. Green was, of course, the opposite. When Denny was fired it was mainly because he'd assembled a Super Bowl calibre roster yet could not coach them into the playoffs.

Green could operate (with a strong OC) under a weak GM. Whiz, IMO can not.

Once again, and this just my opinion, but Whiz was the collateral damage that occurred when the owners decided they needed to jettison Graves. He wasn't let go because he was incompetent - just not good enough in areas that weren't really in his original job description.

JTS

Agred 100% we needed Deny Green to be Whiz's GM and then we might have had something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agred 100% we needed Deny Green to be Whiz's GM and then we might have had something.

man...Dennis Green gets a lot of love as a GM guru, but the reality is he had one GREAT draft...an insanely great draft...and two just AWFUL drafts.

and even with that one great draft, as great as Fitz has been, we passed on multiple Pro-Bowl (and possible HOF) QBs...for a WR, while having no QB on the roster.

 

[Shane]

man...Dennis Green gets a lot of love as a GM guru, but the reality is he had one GREAT draft...an insanely great draft...and two just AWFUL drafts.

and even with that one great draft, as great as Fitz has been, we passed on multiple Pro-Bowl (and possible HOF) QBs...for a WR, while having no QB on the roster.

Word!

 

[WisconsinCard]

man...Dennis Green gets a lot of love as a GM guru, but the reality is he had one GREAT draft...an insanely great draft...and two just AWFUL drafts.

and even with that one great draft, as great as Fitz has been, we passed on multiple Pro-Bowl (and possible HOF) QBs...for a WR, while having no QB on the roster.

I am looking at his entire body of work not just when he was with the Cards. He had some pretty good drafts in Minny as well he also had to deal with the cards GMs too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am looking at his entire body of work not just when he was with the Cards. He had some pretty good drafts in Minny as well he also had to deal with the cards GMs too.

Gotcha. But I'm not sure he had all that much power back in the Minny days until he caught fire in 1998...and his teams really started to fall apart quickly thereafter.

 

[THESMEL]

The Steelers won the SB with Whiz at OC in 2005 as the number 1 rushing attempt team in the NFL-

He called runs this year for the Chargers as OC- moving the from the 21st in attempts 2012 to 6 in 2013.

Beat me another year -I don't care- Ken whisenhunt made the Cards one dimensional- Nobody else - with less rush attempts than any other team over the course of any 5 years in history! Yea He should have been paid the Saints bounty money for Kurt Warner getting knocked out of the 09 playoff game- twice!

What the hell happened to OC Mike Miller? What the hell are other teams thinking? Whiz was hired to balance us up and provide a long term Steeler type blue print! WE got a one hit wonder with a HOF pass happy QB- and several years of stupidity on staff hiring-

I agree the players were not that bad- and that makes his coaching suck that much more!


flip through the rush attempts during Whiz's time with the Cards-

link
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...onType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

 

[Buckybird]

But for the 2nd time it wasn't Roberts FYI. It was Doucet.

No, it was the terrible throw by Skelton in to row 15 that caused that fall

 

[GuernseyCard]

The Steelers won the SB with Whiz at OC in 2005 as the number 1 rushing attempt team in the NFL-

He called runs this year for the Chargers as OC- moving the from the 21st in attempts 2012 to 6 in 2013.

Beat me another year -I don't care- Ken whisenhunt made the Cards one dimensional- Nobody else - with less rush attempts than any other team over the course of any 5 years in history! Yea He should have been paid the Saints bounty money for Kurt Warner getting knocked out of the 09 playoff game- twice!

What the hell happened to OC Mike Miller? What the hell are other teams thinking? Whiz was hired to balance us up and provide a long term Steeler type blue print! WE got a one hit wonder with a HOF pass happy QB- and several years of stupidity on staff hiring-

I agree the players were not that bad- and that makes his coaching suck that much more!


flip through the rush attempts during Whiz's time with the Cards-

link
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...onType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

Our O-line made us one dimensional. Period.

 

[Shane]

No, it was the terrible throw by Skelton in to row 15 that caused that fall

Completely catchable ball!

 

[THESMEL]

really?

Ok Why did we increase rushing attempts and stop the most terrible slide in history - Caused from passing to damned much! From the last game in 08 and through the playoffs- until 10 freaking carries in the SB loss!

Or the 3 score lead on Beanies 1st half rushing effort against GB in the 09 playoffs that turned into a OT pass fest - followed by the humiliating Saints loss where we folded our tents with 6 minutes left in the 3rd 1/4 - with like 6 stupid rushes at that point- after- starting the game with a 80 yard TD on the opening play?

count the Cardinals 3 and outs- look at the passing streaks on the play by play- cause you see the media or ESPN Sportscenter even freaking mention it- as they talk themselves to death.

Seattle run to win and the patriots follow up with 46 rushes in this playoff blow out- it is not a fluke- Defenses especially the 3-4 are tilted too far toward defending the pass- As always 3/4 of the playoff teams win with run game and defense. Now the QB's are running - cause the NFL pendulum has swung too far toward the pass.

I mean back up your statement- Our Oline wasn't given a chance to succeed in my view! The pass happy NFL is all smoke and mirrors.

Our O-line made us one dimensional. Period.

 

[desertdawg]

Our O-line made us one dimensional. Period.

You sound smart.... some times. It's funny when Smell tops you though.

 

[Cardiac]

Hi pretentious arse, I am Simply A. Jerk.

Nice to make you acquaintance.

I appreciate that Whiz changed the culture in AZ. Yet, he deserved to be fired, and showed his limitations as a head coach when given a lot of power.

Hi simpleton jerk. Very nice to interact with you as well.

If the difference is Carson Palmer then why after Kurt Warner retired did Whiz and company decide on Kevin Kolb ?

Who else was out there??????????

He did have a chance to get a average QB, and his choice was Kolb.

Arians had the same chance and his choice was Palmer.

Love me some BA but sometimes the planets align and one gets a bit lucky.

And hating is not the same as saying he was not the man for this job anymore, but that is how it is always taken for some reason.

So I'm just taking things out of context when people bash Whiz and say he had no impact on the Cards getting to the SB. Blaming him for the QB mess after Warner retired.

And please, enough with Whiz coaching up Warner.....he gave him a pair of gloves. And yes, Whiz and that team would have done jack squat without Warner as the QB.

See, there it is. ZERO respect for what Whiz did accomplish. Simply dismiss everything with a pair of gloves. This is a Jerkism statement and if that makes me pretentious than so be it.

Yet, Arians is not given the same credit with matching the same top win total as Whiz was ever able to achieve, and Arians didn't have Kurt Warner, he had Carson Palmer.

Love me some BA and thrilled he is our coach. Already stated that but go ahead and ignore that if it makes you feel like your argument holds more water.

I think it's funny that everyone blames Whiz for the QB choices while acting like he had his pick of the litter out there. It's been pointed out many times that there was nothing but garbage available to play QB. Kolb was generally considered the best QB available but he turned into an injury-prone disaster.

Palmer was not available and neither was any other QB of significance. People will point to Russell Wilson but they may as well point to Tom Brady because both are huge exceptions to the rule.

I still think that Whiz had the Cards at the brink of the playoffs with a concussed Kolb and rookie Skelton at the helm is amazing.

He went 5-2 Skelton as a rookie QB and should have been 6-1 if Roberts stays on his feet in Cincy. Yep that's a pretty terrible coaching job.

Thanks for stating the obvious but in a manor that jerk haters may understand.

I think it'll just be simpler if all parties stuck with the facts--Whiz turned the culture of the franchise around and raised the expectations for all fans, which is what the haters are using to make their points (irony at its finest).. Without Whiz, the lofty expectations aren't there. It's just that simple.

man...Dennis Green gets a lot of love as a GM guru, but the reality is he had one GREAT draft...an insanely great draft...and two just AWFUL drafts.

and even with that one great draft, as great as Fitz has been, we passed on multiple Pro-Bowl (and possible HOF) QBs...for a WR, while having no QB on the roster.

Now that's the truth that many can't or won't understand.

Your last paragraph is awesome.

Whis has done a good job with Rivers:

2012 fumbles: 15 (!), 2013 fumbles: 3 (!)
2012 completion %: 64.1, 2013 completion %: 69.5 (this is a huge leap if you think about it)
2012 yards per attempt: 6.8, 2013 yards per attempt: 8.2
2012 QB rating: 88.6, 2013 QB rating: 105.5 (!)
2012 QBR: 40.57, 2013 QBR: 71.69 (!)
2012 sacks: 49, 2013 sacks: 30
This is a good one: 2012 yards lost on sacks: 311 (!!!), 2013 yards lost on sacks: 150
Another good one: 2012 4th quarter comebacks: 0, 2013 4th quarter comebacks: 4
Along with: 2012 game winning drives: 0, 2013 game winning drives: 4

So yeah I guess he won't ruin a good QB and in some areas can even improve his performance.

Could have and should have quoted both of you posts on this topic. Great stuff.

SMH from some on Whiz when he is the only HC to win 2 division titles and take the Cards to the SB. I seriously don't get it.

 

[ajcardfan]

Love me some BA and thrilled he is our coach. Already stated that but go ahead and ignore that if it makes you feel like your argument holds more water.



Thanks for stating the obvious but in a manor that jerk haters may understand.







Now that's the truth that many can't or won't understand.



Could have and should have quoted both of you posts on this topic. Great stuff.

SMH from some on Whiz when he is the only HC to win 2 division titles and take the Cards to the SB. I seriously don't get it.

It's mostly the same people who ALWAYS talk like every ex-Cardinals guy is dog poop once they are gone. Seriously, search the site for some of these posters names and "Dansby" and you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

Whisenhunt was a brilliant hire. He lead us right up to the top of the mountain, the best ride I've ever had as a Cards fan. Just because the finish of his tenure here was bitter, that doesn't mean I have to crap all over my best experience as a Cards fan by playing revisionist history.

He's coming into a very similar situation with the Lions. I'll be surprised if he doesn't do well. Even if he doesn't, he's the best AZ Cards coach ever until someone gets farther than he did. Wins and trophies are all I care about. And he is hands down the AZ Cards leader in both.