Whisenhunt says Kolb vs. Skelton

Phrazbit

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I still dont buy it. Its Kolb's job to lose by default until he gets injured or booed off the field. Kolb would have to play monumentally bad in preseason and Skelton would have to be excellent for it to become even a remote possibility.

They threw another 7 million in the furnace and ended whatever hopes they had of landing Manning, they are not going to bench him over a couple of series in the preseason.

He is the starter in week 1 (barring preseason injury) but is riding the pine and on his way out of the NFL by week 8.
 

52brandon

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I still dont buy it. Its Kolb's job to lose by default until he gets injured or booed off the field. Kolb would have to play monumentally bad in preseason and Skelton would have to be excellent for it to become even a remote possibility.

They threw another 7 million in the furnace and ended whatever hopes they had of landing Manning, they are not going to bench him over a couple of series in the preseason.

He is the starter in week 1 (barring preseason injury) but is riding the pine and on his way out of the NFL by week 8.
Leinart was being paid more than Warner...
 

Duckjake

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I still dont buy it. Its Kolb's job to lose by default until he gets injured or booed off the field. Kolb would have to play monumentally bad in preseason and Skelton would have to be excellent for it to become even a remote possibility.

They threw another 7 million in the furnace and ended whatever hopes they had of landing Manning, they are not going to bench him over a couple of series in the preseason.

He is the starter in week 1 (barring preseason injury) but is riding the pine and on his way out of the NFL by week 8.

Well there is the hope that the Defense can keep the games close so that when Kolb is 10-21-153 yards 1TD and 1INT we can win those games 16-13 like Denver used to do. Feely might be our offensive MVP this season.

But you are right. There is no QB competition. Not when one guy is making 10 million and the other guy $490,000.
 

Phrazbit

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Leinart was being paid more than Warner...

Leinart was not Whizenhunt's guy, Leinart had not just been given a 7 million dollar bonus and Skelton is not a former superbowl MVP.

But the key-point is... Whiz inherited Leinart, Kolb is a guy he selected and invested in personally.

Totally difference scenarios.
 

kerouac9

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Duckjake

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No he wasn't.

In February 2006 Warner signs a three-year, $22 million contract with the Cards (http://www.azcardinals.com/assets/docs/WarnerTimeline.pdf).

In 2008 (the year of the QB competition), Leinart was making $735,000 in salary (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/matt-leinart/).

Warner was probably making at least twice what Leinart was in 2008. Probably more.

Wasn't Leinart going to be due some $12 million in 2011 ? Which would have made things even harder for him. Sort of the reverse of the Kolb situation.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/cards/2010-06-08-matt-leinart_N.htm
 

52brandon

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No he wasn't.

In February 2006 Warner signs a three-year, $22 million contract with the Cards (http://www.azcardinals.com/assets/docs/WarnerTimeline.pdf).

In 2008 (the year of the QB competition), Leinart was making $735,000 in salary (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/matt-leinart/).

Warner was probably making at least twice what Leinart was in 2008. Probably more.
lol, wow, guess my memory is worse than I thought. I thought Matty had a fat contract. Thanks for clarifying
 

kerouac9

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Wasn't Leinart going to be due some $12 million in 2011 ? Which would have made things even harder for him. Sort of the reverse of the Kolb situation.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/cards/2010-06-08-matt-leinart_N.htm

Yup. I mean, if he was a starting NFL quarterback, that would've been pretty much market value (as we saw with Kolb--a veteran starting QB gets about $10 million a year if he's on a second contract). But the Cards declined to even take him on a test drive in 2010 and see what he was worth at less than $2.5 million--less than Stewart Bradley makes after he took a salary reduction.

If Leinart played like Kolb did in 2011, he probably re-negotiates the last year of that deal to play for like a $7 million base salary and the rest is converted to bonus on a two- or three-year extension. We're maybe better off under center and definitely better off in the balance sheet.
 

TJ

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lol, wow, guess my memory is worse than I thought. I thought Matty had a fat contract. Thanks for clarifying

No; however, Matty was the popular pick amongst fans prior to 2008 because he was the #1 pick two years prior, young, and many felt Warner's best years were behind him.

By all intents and purposes, Matty was supposed to be a "shoe in" and, in effect, was his job to lose. He did just that.
 
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Bobcat

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Leinart was not Whizenhunt's guy, Leinart had not just been given a 7 million dollar bonus and Skelton is not a former superbowl MVP.

But the key-point is... Whiz inherited Leinart, Kolb is a guy he selected and invested in personally.

Totally difference scenarios.

Well let us give John a chance he just may become our next SB QB. Has that one thing that some athletes have about him the desire and the ability to win at all costs.
 

Phrazbit

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Well let us give John a chance he just may become our next SB QB. Has that one thing that some athletes have about him the desire and the ability to win at all costs.

I'm fine with Skelton getting a chance. I just dont expect it to come until Kolb finishes proving his failures.
 

football karma

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I don't doubt what Whis says is true.

The money thing cuts both ways: Skelton would be cheaper going forward then Kolb. The $7mm paid to him is a sunk cost. Think of it as buying a very expensive option
 

52brandon

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No; however, Matty was the popular pick amongst fans prior to 2008 because he was the #1 pick two years prior, young, and many felt Warner's best years were behind him.

By all intents and purposes, Matty was supposed to be a "shoe in" and, in effect, was his job to lose. He did just that.
lol, popular is an understatement. I still see Leinart jerseys. sadly
 

nooch

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I think Matt lost the team at some point, and I think this played into his getting released. But thats another story. If John out plays Kevin and has better command of the the team. Wouldn't surprise me if he's the starter.
 

D-Dogg

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Leinart was being paid more than Warner...

1. Leinart wasn't Whis' choice and traded picks and players for.

2. Leinart didn't have a sunk cost out clause the summer prior that would have cleared a lot of cap with a release.

3. And most importantly, Skelton is NOT Kurt freaking Warner.
 

D-Dogg

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I can't say I'm a "skelton guy" by any stretch. I prefer him to Kolb, but I also want Kolb to succeed.

Neither of them have shown anything worthy of getting your junk up for...only enough good and bad to say "meh, we need a QB still."

Hopefully one or both can improve, or maybe our SDS qb can turn into Tom Brady 2.0.
 

52brandon

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1. Leinart wasn't Whis' choice and traded picks and players for.

2. Leinart didn't have a sunk cost out clause the summer prior that would have cleared a lot of cap with a release.

3. And most importantly, Skelton is NOT Kurt freaking Warner.
completely agreed with all points. Drew Brees sounds pissed in NO. Maybe he wants a shot at getting a red bird ring in the twilight of his career
I can't say I'm a "skelton guy" by any stretch. I prefer him to Kolb, but I also want Kolb to succeed.

Neither of them have shown anything worthy of getting your junk up for...only enough good and bad to say "meh, we need a QB still."

Hopefully one or both can improve, or maybe our SDS qb can turn into Tom Brady 2.0.
agreed but opposite. I like Kolb more, if he can learn to not roll out into OLBs every play, I think he can be pretty damn good. Either way, I will be rooting for whoever is under center
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Skelton will have to thoroughly beat out Kolb to be named starter. If it's close, then Kolb will get the call because he the Cards have more invested in him.
 

D-Dogg

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completely agreed with all points. Drew Brees sounds pissed in NO. Maybe he wants a shot at getting a red bird ring in the twilight of his career

Don't even say that! Brees would kill here. Not gonna happen pipe, but great daydream...
 

52brandon

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Don't even say that! Brees would kill here. Not gonna happen pipe, but great daydream...
lol. Daydream believer... dunno anymore of the lyrics :p. But I'd say we have as good a shot at landing Brees as we do of Kolb or Skelton being a SB QB...
 

Duckjake

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1. Leinart wasn't Whis' choice and traded picks and players for.

2. Leinart didn't have a sunk cost out clause the summer prior that would have cleared a lot of cap with a release.

3. And most importantly, Skelton is NOT Kurt freaking Warner.

But he might be 4 or 13 years from now. Remember Kurt Warner didn't even start an NFL game until he was 28 and was 37 when he QBd the Cards in the SB. So don't be dissing Double Deuce too soon. Let's see what John can do with a full year of work at 2 and the Alien and Michael Floyd to throw to. Never forget that Kurt freaking Warner's success came playing with Marshall Faulk, Torrey Holt, and Isaac Bruce and again with Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. In NY without those kind of weapons he was benched.

Personally I think the Deuce is a bigger ,better version of Jake Plummer with a stronger arm and far better supporting cast and two years from now will lead the Cards to another NFC Championship with a 34-14 thrashing of the Cowboys at the UPS.
 
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THESMEL

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I remember it well and what is ignored by many was why Matt took over in 06, Kurt Warner was a turnover machine. He was brilliant in streaks and then fumble games and seasons away. Mccown had some good games prior to Warner and then more of the same. Warner could have 3-6 turnovers in a game and counter with 3-6 TD's, Same thing with the Rams or Giants.

I am not talking down Kurt Warner, He mastered the put maximum pressure on the defense style offense, GSOT or whatever. 9-7 got us to the playoffs but it was a balanced gameplan lead by Edge that got us through Seattle(112 rush attempts compared to 10 in the SB) , the playoffs and into the SB in 2008. A weak NFCW was good, but we were destroyed -straight up- passing like our hair was on fire in the 2nd half of 2008. We were and are the exception not the rule.

Matt Leinart and anybody with any sense, knew that turnovers were the dealbreaker, that everything great done by an offense, defense, special teams , FO and ownership can be destroyed with a fumble or interception. Monday Night Meltdown put color to it as well as any game in history. But we have a lot more examples than any other team, and are the most exciting team in footbal. We have the what the hell factor. For that Edge and Matt, Beanie to some degree were treated like punks and banished to the bench.

The simple fact remains, a balanced gameplan is safer than an ultra aggresive pressure passing offense. Every NFL game and season is more likely determined by negative play or penalty than by outstanding performance. Yea Beanie Wells' lost 4 fumbles in 3 years is a non topic-compared to QB and receivers fumbles and interceptions with Whiz's aggresive field flipping pressure offense.

The answer is a balancing act of both, max protections, well timed trick plays. The Niners played it close to vest and ate up our division and went to the NFCC game last year. Whiz has the experience under Cower in Pittsburg, But has went from 1st in rushing attempts and balance to last in rushing attempts in Pittsburg to last with Cardinals over the last 5 years. Niners will do it again if we don't overcome, modify and adjust.

Somewhere in between is the answer and we move in that direction last year, Kolb , Skelton, Manning does not matter as much as these football fundementals. Yea defenses are adjusting to agressive pass game friendy rules, but if you want to keep your QB upright, Your Oline humming consistantly, your defense rested and your ST explosive..... FEED the the Bean and Rwill too.



from the read


There’s just one problem with Whisenhunt’s Leinart-Warner analogy: It isn’t true that when he was coaching those two he made it an even competition and let the best player play. In fact, in 2007 Whisenhunt started Leinart over Warner even though it was obvious that Warner was better than Leinart, solely because Leinart was a highly drafted 24-year-old and Whisenhunt believed the Cardinals were a rebuilding team who should stick with the younger player. Whisenhunt eventually saw the error of his ways, picked Warner over Leinart, and got to the Super Bowl with Warner leading the way, but that was only after he gave Leinart more chances than his play warranted.
The good news is that Whisenhunt seems to have learned a lesson from the Warner-Leinart competition when it comes to choosing a quarterback. The bad news is that neither Kolb nor Skelton has done anything to make anyone believe he can be anything like Kurt Warner.
 
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