Whisenhunt, Warner hope fans don't "sell out"

[azsouthendzone]

Easy for the millionares to say not to sell, for real people with real bills that have to work everyday to pay them its not such an easy decision.

Selling the tickets because of the current economy is either an excuse or a band aid to bigger problems. If the season ticket holders who are selling are so financially strapped and in such a bad situation, maybe they should sell the rest of the season. This weekend will be great. It will be the first weekend since Sun Devil Stadium that true Cards fans will be together again and the rest are weeded out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Selling the tickets because of the current economy is either an excuse or a band aid to bigger problems. If the season ticket holders who are selling are so financially strapped and in such a bad situation, maybe they should sell the rest of the season. This weekend will be great. It will be the first weekend since Sun Devil Stadium that true Cards fans will be together again and the rest are weeded out.

Yeah yeah yeah. However for some, the value to sell these tickets because of the higher supply and demand might be worth it.

 

[Duckjake]

The tickets aren't selling. Just watch stub hub. Nothing's moving. If someone paid more than 2x face value or really even 1.5 times they paid too much. By Thursday tix will be below face. No matter who they are playing the Cards still are not a big draw. Too many tickets in the hands of resellers instead of true fans.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Yeah yeah yeah. However for some, the value to sell these tickets because of the higher supply and demand might be worth it.

Yeah yeah yeah. That's such a great plan that I encourage everyone who is selling their seats this week to go ahead and sell the remainder of the season as well. Think of all of the money that can be made! Think about what we can do if they go to the playoffs vs. Dallas or Green Bay!!!!!

 

[TigToad]

If your financial situation is this bad right now, do not buy season tickets to a professional sports team. It reminds me of a family friend who is in danger of losing her house but keeps getting her nails done on a regular basis.

Priorities first and if you can prioritize season tickets into your budget, don't sell out.

emotionally it doesn't play? Tell that to people who have lost thousands of dollars over the last two weeks and are looking at any way to recoup that money because who knows when or if they're ever gonna get that back.

previous years, fine, I understand being a little hard on folks looking to make cash, but with where this country is, especially in light of the last 3 weeks of disaster, people getting what they can, when they can makes the most sense financially and emotionally as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

If your financial situation is this bad right now, do not buy season tickets to a professional sports team. It reminds me of a family friend who is in danger of losing her house but keeps getting her nails done on a regular basis.

Priorities first and if you can prioritize season tickets into your budget, don't sell out.

:notworthy

 

[Duckjake]

If your financial situation is this bad right now, do not buy season tickets to a professional sports team. It reminds me of a family friend who is in danger of losing her house but keeps getting her nails done on a regular basis.

Priorities first and if you can prioritize season tickets into your budget, don't sell out.

When season tix were up for renewal Phoenix houses were worth about 3 times what they are now. The unemployment rate was 3% lower and the Dow was around 14000.

 

[TigToad]

I'll give you that anyone who has lost their jobs between then and now is in a seriously bad way.

Otherwise, the problems that have led to the real estate situation in this state would have already been present in the season ticket holders house long before the re-upping process. The fact my house is worth less right now did not change my mortgage payment. Nor does the DOW pay my rent, even if it might, some day, affect my retirement. I don't live on stocks nor my house's value.

On the other hand, gas prices are down nearly .75 a gallon since I renewed at that affects me more positively than the DOW or home values do on a day to day basis.

Honestly, for those who have stable jobs that are not in danger of losing them an economic recession is a boom to personal finances. Things get cheaper and stocks go on sale and you can get more for your investment dollar.

When season tix were up for renewal Phoenix houses were worth about 3 times what they are now. The unemployment rate was 3% lower and the Dow was around 14000.

 

[Duckjake]

I'll give you that anyone who has lost their jobs between then and now is in a seriously bad way.

Otherwise, the problems that have led to the real estate situation in this state would have already been present in the season ticket holders house long before the re-upping process. The fact my house is worth less right now did not change my mortgage payment. Nor does the DOW pay my rent, even if it might, some day, affect my retirement. I don't live on stocks nor my house's value.

On the other hand, gas prices are down nearly .75 a gallon since I renewed at that affects me more positively than the DOW or home values do on a day to day basis.

Honestly, for those who have stable jobs that are not in danger of losing them an economic recession is a boom to personal finances. Things get cheaper and stocks go on sale and you can get more for your investment dollar.

I couldn't disagree with you more but that is a topic for the P&R board.

 

[cardsloco]

The thing is when you sell your ticket, you get your money and run from the scene of the crime. So now the people who sit around you have their game experience ruined by some obnoxious fan you sold out to. Now if you sold the tickets next to you and are prepared to put up with the guys in person, that is a little different. To me its like taking a dump on the seat, and leaving your fellow Cards fans to deal with the smell.

 

[Linderbee]

I said at the beginning of the season that perhaps dcr & I should consider selling our Cowboys tix & getting cheaper seats so as to not miss the game...

...but after being in the endzone, I just don't think I could anymore, no matter the profit. I can't stand the thought of a Cowboy fan defiling my seat, and being that close to the team/field.

If money were an issue for us right now, then maybe I could. But since it's not, I just can't see it happening. It'd have to be some completely unrealistic amount of money (thousands) to get me to sell.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yeah yeah yeah. That's such a great plan that I encourage everyone who is selling their seats this week to go ahead and sell the remainder of the season as well. Think of all of the money that can be made! Think about what we can do if they go to the playoffs vs. Dallas or Green Bay!!!!!

Do you understand supply and demand at all? If I could sell the Dallas ticket for $500, it would be worth it to sell it at that price. If I could sell every ticket for $500, I'd probably do that too. Its not every week that a team like Dallas comes to town and drives the prices this high. For $100, its not worth it to me to sell. For $500, it is. It's just like selling SuperBowl tickets 2 years ago.

If your financial situation is this bad right now, do not buy season tickets to a professional sports team. It reminds me of a family friend who is in danger of losing her house but keeps getting her nails done on a regular basis.

Priorities first and if you can prioritize season tickets into your budget, don't sell out.

Your financial situation has some to do with it sure. But you can use this logic for just about everything. Imagine you just bought a TV for $1000, and someone offers to buy your TV for $5000, do you do it? What about making a 500% profit in the housing market, do you do it?

 

[moklerman]

This reminds me of a joke:

A man see's a pretty girl sitting at a bar. He asks her if she would have sex with him for $1,000,000. She says: "sure". So he then asks her if she'll have sex with him for $100. She gets offended and says "No, what kind of girl do you think I am?".

He says: "We've already established that. Now we're just negotiating the price."

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This reminds me of a joke:

A man see's a pretty girl sitting at a bar. He asks her if she would have sex with him for $1,000,000. She says: "sure". So he then asks her if she'll have sex with him for $100. She gets offended and says "No, what kind of girl do you think I am?".

He says: "We've already established that. Now we're just negotiating the price."

Yeah, its kinda like that.

Frankly, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[moklerman]

Whis addresses this question in his press conference that posted on the official site. He's asked pretty much the same thing in terms of how families are dealing with the struggling economy and how that might be a good reason to sell their tickets. He's asked if he could see that point of view and he flat out says; "No".

And I agree. People who could afford season seats in the first place may be dealing with an adjustment to their way of life with the way the economy is but I find it hard to believe that the majority of season ticket holders have become destitute and are forced to make a buck any way that they can. Is a couple of hundred dollars really going to be the difference?

I agree that the fans who spent the money to enjoy a Cardinals game as a Cardinals fan shouldn't have to pay for those that have mis-managed their personal finances.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Whis addresses this question in his press conference that posted on the official site. He's asked pretty much the same thing in terms of how families are dealing with the struggling economy and how that might be a good reason to sell their tickets. He's asked if he could see that point of view and he flat out says; "No".

This hard for me to swallow coming from a millionnaire...... He doesn't have to worry about the same things that most Americans do.

I know why Whiz had to say what he said. He's just myopic in his view. That would be like me saying that I know what it is like having cancer, when I don't. A LOT of people that have season tickets probably can't afford them. If only those that are reasonably secure financially were at the stadium, we be at below Sun Devil levels. You don't see too many affluent members of society at Cards games. Not enough to fill the stadium at least.

 

[Mulli]

He has to say that. I don't have a problem with it.

I also don't have a problem with people making some money on the tickets.

Free Market!

 

[moklerman]

This hard for me to swallow coming from a millionnaire...... He doesn't have to worry about the same things that most Americans do.

I know why Whiz had to say what he said. He's just myopic in his view. That would be like me saying that I know what it is like having cancer, when I don't. A LOT of people that have season tickets probably can't afford them. If only those that are reasonably secure financially were at the stadium, we be at below Sun Devil levels. You don't see too many affluent members of society at Cards games. Not enough to fill the stadium at least.

So much of this argument is dependent on circumstance.

The rich people who buy season seats have probably lost the most money but have the biggest reserves. If they are rich because they are smart with their money they wouldn't have it invested in such a way that a market crash has left them to sell their tickets for food money.

The middle class people who buy season seats probably feel like they're in need of some quick cash but again, I think it's all relative. Their way of life is being affected but I don't think they've lost everything and need the money to eat. People in New Orleans after the hurricane? Sure, sell your tickets and do what you have to do. Stock market fluctuation? We're not really talking about most people.

Lower middle class and poverty line people? I would have to guess that the fortunate one's are lucky enough to scrape together Sunday Ticket money and an occasional trip to UOP Stadium. The stock market isn't an issue with the masses in a direct way. Corporations going out of business because of the stock market and worker drones losing their jobs is certainly applicable but I'm guessing Arizona/Phoenix isn't like Pittsburgh or Detroit or places like that that would REALLY take a hit to the community when a factory shuts down.

If the majority of fans that buy season seats are really making a huge financial decision by doing so, I would think they would value them more. There are only 8 per year and rarely are they as meaningful a game as this week vs. Dallas. I'd be willing to bet that Cleveland and Green Bay fans wouldn't do it.

Actually, isn't there some sort of code of conduct contract that is part of purchasing season tickets? Kind of like CC&R's? It seems like I heard that in Green Bay if you're caught selling your seats as a season ticket holder you lose them and aren't allowed back on the waiting list.

 

[ANDY440]

Tickets for sale? he... he.....
http://phoenix.craigslist.org:80/evl/tix/870906360.html

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I agree with the point that it depends on the circumstance. Most decisions in this world should depend on circumstances.

Like it or not, but the lower and middle class are usually the ones filling up stadiums. I think Whiz should understand this if he doesn't already. Again, I understand why Whiz said what he said. He'd better be careful.

 

[moklerman]

Like it or not, but the lower and middle class are usually the ones filling up stadiums. I think Whiz should understand this if he doesn't already. Again, I understand why Whiz said what he said. He'd better be careful.

Whis is very cerebral and I would give him credit for knowing a lot more about the situation if for no other reason than he's in a position to do so.

I think he's right to question the fans who sell off their loyalty and the comfort and allegiance of the fans who didn't sell. I think he wants the fans to be passionate and of the mindset that selling your ticket is unthinkable. It's all about the culture shift he's attempting. I don't think he likes fans to think it's easy to get a ticket to a Cardinals game and he wants it to change.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Do you understand supply and demand at all? If I could sell the Dallas ticket for $500, it would be worth it to sell it at that price. If I could sell every ticket for $500, I'd probably do that too. Its not every week that a team like Dallas comes to town and drives the prices this high. For $100, its not worth it to me to sell. For $500, it is. It's just like selling SuperBowl tickets 2 years ago.

It would be worth it - to you. Supply and demand does not factor in how badly you want to be at the game. Getting Super Bowl tickets to a game you're not planning on attending anyway and selling them is not the same as selling YOUR seat to the Cowboys game.

Your financial situation has some to do with it sure. But you can use this logic for just about everything. Imagine you just bought a TV for $1000, and someone offers to buy your TV for $5000, do you do it?

If you could get another TV like it again for $1000 that'd be great, but if you really wanted THAT set - the profit doesn't help you replace it. So you buy a set for $1000, sell it for $5000, and the cost to replace it on the secondary market is...$5000. Big freaking deal.

What about making a 500% profit in the housing market, do you do it?

Again - it depends. If your house has gone up it is highly likely that all houses in your area have gone up. Selling your house for a 500% profit sounds great but if that is the area where you want to live and it is going to cost you the same to get into a similar house...what's the point?

 

[BurqueCardFan]

I am in albuquerque, so the cost of going to games is a lot more than just driving down the street. Me and my Dad have tickets and usually are able to go to 5-6 games out of the year. However, there are always 2-3 games we are not able to make it to because of timing or expense. I do not consider myself a bad fan if I cannot make it to a game and have to sell my seats. Odds are this is going to be one of the games I will not be able to attend for several other reasons. Show me a Cardinals fans willing to buy my tickets for the going rate and I am more than willing.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It would be worth it - to you. Supply and demand does not factor in how badly you want to be at the game. Getting Super Bowl tickets to a game you're not planning on attending anyway and selling them is not the same as selling YOUR seat to the Cowboys game.



If you could get another TV like it again for $1000 that'd be great, but if you really wanted THAT set - the profit doesn't help you replace it. So you buy a set for $1000, sell it for $5000, and the cost to replace it on the secondary market is...$5000. Big freaking deal.



Again - it depends. If your house has gone up it is highly likely that all houses in your area have gone up. Selling your house for a 500% profit sounds great but if that is the area where you want to live and it is going to cost you the same to get into a similar house...what's the point?

You're proving my point. Every person and every circumstance is different. To say that you can't see one point of view (like Whiz said) is myopic.

 

[john h]

i understand where Kurt and Wiz are coming from wanting it to be a serious home-field advantage, but this country is in economic chaos right now and there's a lot of people out there who need to scratch and claw their way just to make rent. A multi-milionaire telling people "it stinks" to try and help yourself rather than watch a football game just seems incredibly out of touch with the economic realities of what's going on in our society.

I commented yesterday on a non sports board that NFL games were still selling out regardless of the economy. The stadiums remain sold out. MLB set a new attendance record.I think all of us need some relief from the daily grind of bad news and sinking investments. We all get that needed relief in different ways. I have considered what I might give up if things continued to deteriorate. Watch the Cards and Cubs are down low on my list of things I would give up as we all need some outlet. Others may find relief in golf, booze, or whatever. I am not going to judge anyone. As for me I will keep my direct TV and subscriptions to the NFL and MLB to allow me to continue to enjoy some things when the world is in such bad shape. I have made cuts in other part os of my life. I am a long way from being in such a position as to having to give up the Cubs and Cards.

As I look around my community of Little Rock I see no obvious changes resulting from the fall of the stock market. My boss lost a fortune in the market but he still has a fortune. Hotels are full. I am in the commercial real estate business. Buildings and land are still selling. Office space is down but just a little. Shopping center space remains mostly full. Car sales are down but they sure spend a lot of money on advertising. Traffic is as crowded as ever. My portfolio and SEP are down 5%. I can live with that. Our state requires by law that each year we end with a balanced budget. Currently we have a 20 million dollar surplus. Looks to me like the hardest hit parts of the nation are the east and west coast. As of yet we still have not seen the market lose as much as it did on one day in the 80's.