Suns_fan69
Official ASFN Lurker
Everything i've seen says he's a 19.3m expiring this summer. Unless you meant to say why would we want him, he *is* expiring...
Who is the Star the Suns could get or event want?
- Thread starter SweetD
- Start date
Everything i've seen says he's a 19.3m expiring this summer. Unless you meant to say why would we want him, he *is* expiring...
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 119,244
- Reaction score
- 59,842
Indeed, Pau Gasol is a $19,285,850M expiring contract. I only mentioned Gasol because he a star player that the Suns could reasonably get per the thread title. I think Frye, Okafor and a pick could get it done. The Lakers want to show their fans they are not giving away Gasol just for money. Also this is why I mentioned the Morris twins.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
Not sure why the Lakers would want Frye. No need to add salary for another season. They are in bad shape with Nash and Kobe already on their payroll. If they want to sign a max player, they can't afford to have Frye on their payroll next year.
As for the Suns, I don't see a reason to not do that trade. Shed salary for next season, and Gasol might be enough to win an extra game or two in playoffs.
Moving the Morris twins for Pau would be silly in my opinion. Okafor for Pau works straight up, but obviously thats pointless for LA. Perhaps if we return their pick to them (next years) then it makes sense. Though LA might balk and think thats too little in return for a guy who was a star (he's clearly not any more). Maybe tossing in Indiana's pick would do it.
Pau's an expiring, getting him on this team pushes the teams chances of making the playoffs this year from "pretty good" to almost a lock. Maybe he ends up liking it here and signs a longer, reasonably priced contract. Or maybe he bolts for Memphis at the end of the year. Even if he does leave, the being relevant this year, and getting your players some winning experience might be worth the rental.
EDIT: Here's a fun trade (not that I think it'd happen) that works under the cap:
PHX sends:
Channing Frye
Emeka Okafor
A 1st rounder
PHX gets:
Pau Gasol
LAL sends:
Pau Gasol
LAL gets:
Omer Asik
Emeka Okafor
Aaron Brooks
HOU sends:
Omer Asik
Aaron Brooks
HOU gets:
Channing Frye
The Suns 1st rounder
This trade accomplishes multiple things. The Lakers get an under 30 center who's of above average starting quality. Though his balloon contract next year may make him unpalatable to the Lakers. Brooks stabilizes the Lakers PG spot, and is on an expiring.
The Suns get a "star" (though a quickly fading one) to anchor their front court with Plumlee and push them into the playoffs this year. If they get the right draw, thats possibly a 2nd round team.
Houston gets rid of the Asik headache, gets a future pick (Darryl Moorey loves hoarding assets), and gets a stretch 4 in Frye that works perfectly with both Dwight and Hardens drive and kick ability. Houston might be getting the shortest end of this trade, another pick might be needed…but if its coming from PHX thats giving up a lot for what might be just a rental of Pau.
DOUBLE EDIT: Between Kobe+Nash+Asik would cost the Lakers about $47.5M next year if I'm understanding Asik's goofy contract correctly. Obviously thats a lot of 3 guys, especially 2 of whom are falling apart. The Lakers need to pray Nash takes a medical retirement to get him off the books.
Pau's an expiring, getting him on this team pushes the teams chances of making the playoffs this year from "pretty good" to almost a lock. Maybe he ends up liking it here and signs a longer, reasonably priced contract. Or maybe he bolts for Memphis at the end of the year. Even if he does leave, the being relevant this year, and getting your players some winning experience might be worth the rental.
EDIT: Here's a fun trade (not that I think it'd happen) that works under the cap:
PHX sends:
Channing Frye
Emeka Okafor
A 1st rounder
PHX gets:
Pau Gasol
LAL sends:
Pau Gasol
LAL gets:
Omer Asik
Emeka Okafor
Aaron Brooks
HOU sends:
Omer Asik
Aaron Brooks
HOU gets:
Channing Frye
The Suns 1st rounder
This trade accomplishes multiple things. The Lakers get an under 30 center who's of above average starting quality. Though his balloon contract next year may make him unpalatable to the Lakers. Brooks stabilizes the Lakers PG spot, and is on an expiring.
The Suns get a "star" (though a quickly fading one) to anchor their front court with Plumlee and push them into the playoffs this year. If they get the right draw, thats possibly a 2nd round team.
Houston gets rid of the Asik headache, gets a future pick (Darryl Moorey loves hoarding assets), and gets a stretch 4 in Frye that works perfectly with both Dwight and Hardens drive and kick ability. Houston might be getting the shortest end of this trade, another pick might be needed…but if its coming from PHX thats giving up a lot for what might be just a rental of Pau.
DOUBLE EDIT: Between Kobe+Nash+Asik would cost the Lakers about $47.5M next year if I'm understanding Asik's goofy contract correctly. Obviously thats a lot of 3 guys, especially 2 of whom are falling apart. The Lakers need to pray Nash takes a medical retirement to get him off the books.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,669
LA would love it. Houston would love it. A couple of Frye-hating Suns fans would love it but all in all, it would set us back IMO. Personally, I'd much rather have Frye than I would Gasol and that's without considering the pick or the value Okafor might have as a trade piece later on. I'd love to have Gasol as a 15 to 25 minute per game backup but not at this cost.
Steve
I like what Frye brings, and he's on a reasonable contract. But the Suns need more front court scoring, and Pau would bring that. Especially with actual Point Guard play, Pau might inch back towards 18ppg. Heck we have 2 guys that can feed him!
Not to mention Pau is a vastly better defender and rebounder than Frye, which is important. Losing 1 of the Suns many picks (depending of course on which one it is) wouldn't really bother me.
The Suns are currently on pace to win 50 games (thats insane) but with this roster and its youth, they're likely to fall short of that in my opinion. Add Pau, and you conceivably get 50 wins and to the 2nd round.
While us hardcore fans might be OK with waiting on the youth, we've seen this front office isn't the richest and wants to win when it can. Making the playoffs and hosting potentially 2 rounds of home games means a lot of money.
And this trade doesn't really hurt the Suns youth movement long term either, so your same long term plan is still in tact.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,669
He's definitely a better rebounder and he'd be a better defender than Frye at the center spot but I don't think it's as simple as "he's a vastly better defender than Frye", not anymore. He'd also clog the middle forcing us to change the focus of our offense. If we were to also trade Bledsoe around the same time, he might be an upgrade for us but not as it is now IMO. A starting lineup of Dragic, Green, Morris, Morris and Gasol with Ish, Christmas, Tucker and Plumlee coming off the bench (along with whoever we added by trading Bledsoe) might work but I think it's an unnecessary gamble.
Steve
^ Why would Pau "clog up the middle"? He's not Dwight. Pau's one of the better mid range jump shooting big men. He'd be IDEAL in pick and pops all damned day with Bledsoe and Goran. Check out his shot chart:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/874-Pau-Gasol
Lots of green in the mid range.
I do worry about the lack of 3 point shooting in a Dragic-Bledsoe-Tucker-Pau-Plumlee line up. Dragic & Bledsoe both need to be working on their 3 point shots. 34-35% won't get it done in the long term from them. If we're not going to have a true 2 guard, they both need to get better from deep to open up pick and roll and pick and pop options, otherwise teams will continually go around screens and take out a lot of options.
As far as defense, you're right the gulf between them has diminished. But defense is such a tricky thing to quantify. Are Pau's defensive win shares and defensive rating down because he's also having to facilitate the offense and be the only defender on a bad team? Likely.
I guess it comes down to, do you think Pau could (at least for the rest of this year) re-find his old self if he was playing with good, young, energetic players and had something to play for? I think for the price of a late 1st and a middle tier player, thats a gamble worth making.
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/874-Pau-Gasol
Lots of green in the mid range.
I do worry about the lack of 3 point shooting in a Dragic-Bledsoe-Tucker-Pau-Plumlee line up. Dragic & Bledsoe both need to be working on their 3 point shots. 34-35% won't get it done in the long term from them. If we're not going to have a true 2 guard, they both need to get better from deep to open up pick and roll and pick and pop options, otherwise teams will continually go around screens and take out a lot of options.
As far as defense, you're right the gulf between them has diminished. But defense is such a tricky thing to quantify. Are Pau's defensive win shares and defensive rating down because he's also having to facilitate the offense and be the only defender on a bad team? Likely.
I guess it comes down to, do you think Pau could (at least for the rest of this year) re-find his old self if he was playing with good, young, energetic players and had something to play for? I think for the price of a late 1st and a middle tier player, thats a gamble worth making.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 92,047
- Reaction score
- 70,110
LA would HATE that deal. They're all about clearing salary cap room for next summer and maintaining whatever flexibility they can possibly have after signing Kobe to that albatross of a contract.
I think it could make us a legit contender in the West, especially if Westbrook's knee continues to give him problems.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
Bill Simmons: I love the way Blake Griffin is playing lately. Wouldn't trade him for Melo. The Melo trade partner that makes the most sense - Phoenix.
devilalum
Heavily Redacted
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 16,776
- Reaction score
- 3,187
The Knicks are gonna want the king's ransom they gave the Nougats for Melo but he's not worth that much now that he's been exposed for the selfish player that he is.
My understanding is that Asiks deal is "only" a $8.5M cap hit next year, not the full $16M. If Nash ends up being a medical retirement (not that unlikely), they are basically just swapping Asik for Nash in the money department. Not the worst thing in the world.
Even if Nash doesn't medically retire, Kobe $30M, Asik $8.5M, Nash $9M = $47.5M. Thats still $8M under the cap and something like $23M away from the luxury tax, which isn't so bad. LA is one of a few teams that can likely go slightly into the tax without it killing them.
But I don't' entirely disagree with your sentiment. LA taking on $$ and Houston feeling its not getting enough for Asik are the stumbling blocks--- certainly I don't think the Suns FO would hesitate.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,669
I didn't think about the dollar impact on LA. You're right, they'd hate the deal. I don't think it makes us even a playoff team though. Maybe Gasol makes us better when we play the Grizzlies of the world but we'd lose a lot of games to teams like the Bucks. It might make us a slightly better playoff team (and that's a big MIGHT) but I think it makes us a far worse regular season team.
Steve
Suns_fan69
Official ASFN Lurker
I have a feeling Houston's price is going to come down as we go later on into the season and they feel pressure to improve on their seeding and locking in home court advantage for at least the first round.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Current rumor is that we have been burning up the phone lines with Philly asking about Thaddeus Young.
Nash has made it pretty clear he intends to play this year so a medical exclusion seems unlikely, they will likely have to use the stretch provision on him.
Using those numbers though the Lakers would be basically looking at Nash, Kobe, Asik & a MLE type player with 9 vet min / rookie players.
devilalum
Heavily Redacted
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 16,776
- Reaction score
- 3,187
There was speculation in December that the 76ers were talking to Houston about trading him for Asik. Maybe some sort of 3 way trade might be explored.
devilalum
Heavily Redacted
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 16,776
- Reaction score
- 3,187
Here's an interesting thread discussing Young. The guy's been on fire this last week. His "hot" streak started in Phoenix.
http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/...mor-phoenix-suns-thaddeus-young-trade-request
http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/...mor-phoenix-suns-thaddeus-young-trade-request
Folster
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2005
- Posts
- 16,925
- Reaction score
- 7,559
Thaddeus Young is intriguing, and to be honest, I don't know a lot about him. From the times I have watched him, I noticed that he rarely passed once he got the ball (his career assist average supports my observation). His salary isn't horrible, but I would be concerned about who we would have to give up. If Houston is involved, I could see them wanting Frye as a stretch 4 next to Howard with Asik going to Philly.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 92,047
- Reaction score
- 70,110
not crazy about a 6'8 PF who averages 7 rebounds per game moving forward as a fixture in the lineup.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 119,244
- Reaction score
- 59,842
I don't know much about Thaddeus Young other than his stats improve every season. However, I believe McDonough has a good eye for talent so if he has interest in Young, I would be enthused. The 6'8" height doesn't worry me if he has the right build and good arm length. I think arm length is one of the factors that limit the Morris twins. It would be nice to find a good reference guide.
devilalum
Heavily Redacted
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 16,776
- Reaction score
- 3,187
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 92,047
- Reaction score
- 70,110
whatever length his arms are, he's still only averaging 7 boards per game from the PF spot. that's substandard.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 119,244
- Reaction score
- 59,842
Thanks for the excellent link given in the article:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
I think Young is fine as a 4, AS LONG AS there is a legitimate Center on the floor with him the entire game. $9M or so per year for the next three years might be a bit more than I'd think he's worth though.
Similar threads
