Why didnt TJ do this in AZ?

[clif]

Clif, Clif, Clif.

We don't know if DB smoked crack.

ok ok.... snorting right?


come on... seriously.. WHATEVER he was doing.... it was not the cards fault..

 

[Canuck Cardinal]

Sweet d... it's not about being outspoken... identity is leadership... some are capable of informal leadership roles... and some are not.... some want it and some don't... some want to think they should be and some should be.... our old coaches never identified who was what ? If they did, then you would have known.

 

[Lex]

First off, I was born in the moose capital of the north 46 years ago. Second, my brother-in-law is from Ontario ...

So what's your point?

Frankly, anyone with the audacity to defend Thomas Jones and David Boston on an Arizona Cardinals message board

nevermind.

 

[kerouac9]

Thomas Jones compiled 162 total yards in an offense spearheaded by some guy named Jonathan Quinn who passed for 65 yards. That performance is a testament in itself for his ability.

The kid's 25 years old and never been given more than 140 rushing attempts in a season. He toted the rock more times in a part-time role (starting only the last handful of games of the season) in Tampa than he ever did in Arizona.

Thomas Jones and Michael Pittman posted virtually identical per-carry stats when they were playing together. Pittman was given the starting job over and over because Arizona fans hated Jones and Mac yielded to the pressure. Once Thomas Jones left Arizona, his per-carry average increased by a full yard. The numbers speak for themselves.

It's funny that Mac and his staff's futility only extend to their inability to develop Jake Plummer as a legitimate, average starting NFL quarterback. Apparently, they had no job developing an obvious talent in Thomas Jones or maintaining discipline with another obvious talent like David Boston.

 

[Shane]

Thomas Jones compiled 162 total yards in an offense spearheaded by some guy named Jonathan Quinn who passed for 65 yards. That performance is a testament in itself for his ability.

The kid's 25 years old and never been given more than 140 rushing attempts in a season. He toted the rock more times in a part-time role (starting only the last handful of games of the season) in Tampa than he ever did in Arizona.

Thomas Jones and Michael Pittman posted virtually identical per-carry stats when they were playing together. Pittman was given the starting job over and over because Arizona fans hated Jones and Mac yielded to the pressure. Once Thomas Jones left Arizona, his per-carry average increased by a full yard. The numbers speak for themselves.

It's funny that Mac and his staff's futility only extend to their inability to develop Jake Plummer as a legitimate, average starting NFL quarterback. Apparently, they had no job developing an obvious talent in Thomas Jones or maintaining discipline with another obvious talent like David Boston.

WOW! We agree!

 

[Duckjake]

Smokin' crack, boozing, etc are all symptoms of poor interest !

These guys were top notch athletes that were all promised the starring role... only to find out they were lied to once training camp started... no one including the fans could tell you definitively who the team offensive identity was.

In dealing with young studs, that were all the focus of their team in college, a clear role in the Cardinals offense should and needs to be enforced. This is the discipline that we lacked with the old coaching regime.

Must have lacked it with all the other coaching regimes that worked for the Cardinals for the last 25 years as well.

 

[Duckjake]

Thomas Jones and Michael Pittman posted virtually identical per-carry stats when they were playing together. Pittman was given the starting job over and over because Arizona fans hated Jones and Mac yielded to the pressure. Once Thomas Jones left Arizona, his per-carry average increased by a full yard. The numbers speak for themselves.

Do you really believe that there have been enough Cardinal fans since '99 to actually put pressure on anybody? We couldn't put pressure on anyone if we all gathered at mid-field and piled on top of them.

 

[kerouac9]

Do you really believe that there have been enough Cardinal fans since '99 to actually put pressure on anybody? We couldn't put pressure on anyone if we all gathered at mid-field and piled on top of them.

Well, since Mac really had no plan for the team or any direction he wanted to sail it toward, he just kind of let the fans in the stands run the team by committee.

I just think that all the AZ fans had so sold themselves on Brian Urlacher that they never gave TJ a chance. Combine that with the fact that he was placed in an office designed for a T.J. Duckett/Lamont Jordan type back (which Michael Pittman could run in, but not for a whole season--or Marcel Shipp, for that matter), and he was never able to win the fans over.

There weren't a ton of fans in the stands, but there were few enough that you could hear individual voices from the sideline. That's how Mac got his playcalls. Someone in the middle sections must've been constantly calling out "RB Dive" on first downs, or something.

 

[Duckjake]

There weren't a ton of fans in the stands, but there were few enough that you could hear individual voices from the sideline. That's how Mac got his playcalls. Someone in the middle sections must've been constantly calling out "RB Dive" on first downs, or something.

 

[jerryp]

That's one of the oldest and least convincing arguments though. Good RB's break long runs, to subtract out the long runs is just not fair.

There are very few guys who play behind a line as good as Emmit's line was in Dallas where they can get 4 YPC. Droughns is doing it right now in Denver, of course Carolina and Oakland also happen to have HUGE problems stopping the run right now, Carolina due to injuries, Oakland because it's clear they overpaid for 2 past their prime DT's and aren't getting much bang for their buck in return. I watched the entire game and they said Sapp's name twice, and once was to mention they hadn't called his name very often.

Most RB's HAVE to break long runs to be effective. Jones had his problems here, it's apparent he didn't want to be here, it's also apparent we weren't using him the way he needed to be used to be effective.

And that's exactly why at the end of my post I said I don't put much into stats like yards per carry or total yardage. Because you can spin them and take them out of context so many ways. I believe I said something to that effect in both my posts in this thread, interesting that wasn't quoted.

Sounds to me you just wanted another opportunity to say "Jones was bad here and didn't want to be here, just like I've always said." You didn't really seem to care that

1) The first paragraph of mine you quoted was actually my interpretation of what someone else was saying, not my opinion.

2) The main point of the second paragraph is while his overall yards per carry is touted, it cleary bounces around the spectrum of "good" ypc in each game. I've already said I don't care to much about ypc, but no matter what method you want to use, bouncing around between good and bad ratings is not something you want.

3) I never offered an opinion of Thomas Jones anywhere in my posts (beyond the fact at this point he is better than Smith). I have no opinion of his time here, mainly because I never got to see him run here and I don't think going back and reviewing his record here is going to do much to affect the future viewing enjoyment I get from the Cardinals. But your last sentence seems to me that is has the tone of "I've just shown you how you were wrong about Jones, what it really was is he didn't like being here, just like I've always said."

My rebuttal is;

Good. I don't care about Thomas Jones or his time in Arizona unless we are playing the Bears or whatever team Jones happens to populate. I'm glad you're confident in your assessment of his time here.

I just wanted to point out he had the same number of carries as Emmitt even though he had one less game played so it was OK to compare their performances so far this season. Does everyone get that? I'm not attacking your opinions of fargone Cardinals players, I don't care.

 

[WildBB]

That may be, but if you've seen TJ play in Chicago this year you know that while he is finding some holes, he's also breaking tackles--something he never did in AZ. He's tough to bring down this year whereas when he was with us he was tough to keep on his feet.

He's playing different now than he played with us and I don't think it's because of the line--he's finally living up to his pre-draft billing.

I believe most RB's take a few years to develop. I know they have short careers, but they need usually at least 2-3 yrs. before they arrive.

We gave Jones 2 yrs. here? He didn't have any line. Then handed it to Pittman (who was kind of productive - also w/Bucs) over Jones.

He was young coming out - a jr. I believe. Sometimes it takes the slashers more time and strength to make it. The beef on him was his field vision.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

First off, I was born in the moose capital of the north 46 years ago. Second, my brother-in-law is from Ontario ...

So what's your point?

Frankly, anyone with the audacity to defend Thomas Jones and David Boston on an Arizona Cardinals message board

nevermind.

May I ask where you were born?

 

[Lex]

Crazy Canuck-

Yes, you may.

Then I'd say "in a hospital."

But what you want to know is, northwestern Minnesota, pretty much straight south of the Peg in Manitoba. My brother-in-law is from Thunder Bay.

Iv'e been in AZ for about 20 years.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Crazy Canuck-

Yes, you may.

Then I'd say "in a hospital."

But what you want to know is, northwestern Minnesota, pretty much straight south of the Peg in Manitoba. My brother-in-law is from Thunder Bay.

Iv'e been in AZ for about 20 years.

Thanks...

When you said "moose capital"... I thought you meant "MOOSE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD, which obviously would be in Canada.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Hasn't TJ had only one super game but averaged less than 3 yds a carry in the other 4? Same crap he showed here.

Agreed!

This guy has a few good games, and now he is an All-Pro?

Give me a friggin' break (and not my hand ).

He stinks as bad as he ever did. Yes, he has speed, but he still dances in the hole, and his attitude is more than questionable.

If he does well with the Bears..great! But I still wouldn't want him back here.

 

[kerouac9]

Agreed!

This guy has a few good games, and now he is an All-Pro?

Give me a friggin' break (and not my hand ).

He stinks as bad as he ever did. Yes, he has speed, but he still dances in the hole, and his attitude is more than questionable.

If he does well with the Bears..great! But I still wouldn't want him back here.

Thomas Jones is 13th among rushers in the NFL right now. He has more yards than Marshall Faulk (who ran all over the Cards, BTW), Fred Taylor, and Kevan Barlow. He has one less rushing yard than Shaun Alexander. He has one game where he's failed to accrue more than 100 yards of total offense.

No one's saying his an All-Pro, but I'd rather have him back than any of the RBs currently on the roster, active or not. And I bet Denny Green would, too.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Thomas Jones is 13th among rushers in the NFL right now. He has more yards than Marshall Faulk (who ran all over the Cards, BTW), Fred Taylor, and Kevan Barlow. He has one less rushing yard than Shaun Alexander. He has one game where he's failed to accrue more than 100 yards of total offense.

No one's saying his an All-Pro, but I'd rather have him back than any of the RBs currently on the roster, active or not. And I bet Denny Green would, too.

 

[Lex]

Thomas "hold the phone" Jones--4.4 ypc.

Emmitt Smith--4.2 ypc.

MY GOD what a difference!

 

[buff17]

Huge difference considering all year all teams have did is put 8 in the box to stop him. Defenses dared to make Grossman and Quinn beat them. Rex at least had a shot, Quinn is the worst "starting" QB I have ever seen. BTW, the Bears receivers are awful as well.

 

[Duckjake]

Huge difference considering all year all teams have did is put 8 in the box to stop him. Defenses dared to make Grossman and Quinn beat them. Rex at least had a shot, Quinn is the worst "starting" QB I have ever seen. BTW, the Bears receivers are awful as well.

The Bears are like Denver just about any back can get 1000 yds running for them. That's what they do - get a mediocre QB and play Woody Hayes football. James Allen ran for over 1000 with Cade McNown at QB. Anthony Thomas had two 1000 yard seasons with Jim Miller and Kordell Stewart at QB. I doubt any of those QB's struck fear into opposing defenses.

It doesn't seem to work very well as the Bears have only had one winning season since 1995.

 

[Pariah]

Thomas "hold the phone" Jones--4.4 ypc.

Emmitt Smith--4.2 ypc.

MY GOD what a difference!

Lex, have you watched Jones at all this year? He's not the same guy that would fall over when defenders looked at him--he's running very, very well.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Never thought Id see the day when Thomas Jones is heralded as the next coming of something great and then have posters say I told you so.

Maybe you can hide in the fact that it was so long ago, but I cant name one poster who said, after several TJ starts, this man is something special.

 

[Pariah]

Never thought Id see the day when Thomas Jones is heralded as the next coming of something great and then have posters say I told you so.

Maybe you can hide in the fact that it was so long ago, but I cant name one poster who said, after several TJ starts, this man is something special.

Maybe this isn't aimed at me, but since I was last to post I'll respond anyway. When we first drafted Jones, I was like a lot of us in thinking that he could be something special. Then he floundered for a couple of years and generally sucked eggs. I was glad to see him go.

I don't know if he's destined for something "special" now, but he is definately playing much better than he did in AZ. I wish he had played like this from the start.

 

[WildBB]

Alot of young backs require some patience to "come up to speed" in the NFL.

This guy is still only 25 this being his fourth yr. It's safe to say the org. had not enough patience to bring him along. The talent along the OL was also questionable. In fairness, in TB TJ showed more promise and even they failed to see it.

 

[kerouac9]

This guy is still only 25 this being his fourth yr. It's safe to say the org. had not enough patience to bring him along. The talent along the OL was also questionable. In fairness, in TB TJ showed more promise and even they failed to see it.

I think that TB would have liked to have kept TJ, but he wanted a starting job. That's what he got with Chicago, and probably could have found a couple other places to do it in, as well.

Thomas Jones is playing GREAT football right now. Anyone who tries to deny is are either totally biased against him or haven't seen him play. He's the only thing happening in Chi-Town's offense right now.