Will Amare play before the end of the playoffs?

[pokerface]

Maybe you just didn't understand his post.

Whats to understand? Amares micro'd knee is just fine but he chose to wear his other knee down just because?? How likely is that?

Maybe you dont understand.

 

[Chaplin]

Whats to understand? Amares micro'd knee is just fine but he chose to wear his other knee down just because?? How likely is that?

Maybe you dont understand.

Where are you inferring he "chose" to wear down his other knee?

Just because his knee felt fine, doesn't mean he didn't overcompensate. Nobody is saying it was a conscious decision on Amare's part to hurt the other knee, but it is common human nature to subconsciously be a little worried, regardless of how they feel. I've done it before. I used to twist my left ankle all the time on the court, and after awhile, I was favorigin my right much more--not that I intended to, it just happened that way.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Maybe you just didn't understand his post.

So, let me get this straight... You are comparing Amare to Penny Hardaway, and THEN you are saying that Amare had problems with the surgically repaired knee when it has been specifically stated that a) there hasn't been any problems with it since he suited up, and b) he actually had surgery on the other knee to do a cleaning.

Wow, what did Amare have for breakfast this morning? What's his favorite movie? ...since you seem to have the inside track on Amare's mental state, I figured I'd ask.

No, I compared rushing Amare back early to play in the playoffs to Penny Hardaway. Penny came back to play in the playoffs, helped us win the first round series, and was done. His knee was NEVER the same.

Having Amare coming back for the end of the playoffs when his knee may or may not be healed is questionable to say the very least.

First of all, there is no proof that Amare coming back would either help our offense/defense or hurt our opponents.

Second of all, lets say Amare does come back for the finals and we win the championship. His knee begins to bother him after the season. The doctors need to do 3 more surgeries on his knee, due to the damage that he did to it playing those games. The best Amare's knees can get for the rest of his career is less than 50%. Some of us on this board would be happy to trade one ring, for being less than mediocre for the rest of his career, but I am not sure the Suns would be. Paying 80+ mil for one playoff series would be pretty bad in the Suns eyes, and possibly in the fans eyes. It was for *again Penny Hardaway. IMO the risks outweigh the payoffs in coming back this year.

I never once said that I thought that Amare had problems with his repaired knee, I was referring to his other knee, you assumed I was talking about the other knee (and you know what they say about assuming).

 

[pokerface]

Where are you inferring he "chose" to wear down his other knee?

Just because his knee felt fine, doesn't mean he didn't overcompensate. Nobody is saying it was a conscious decision on Amare's part to hurt the other knee, but it is common human nature to subconsciously be a little worried, regardless of how they feel. I've done it before. I used to twist my left ankle all the time on the court, and after awhile, I was favorigin my right much more--not that I intended to, it just happened that way.

Its also human nature to compensate on one leg when the other one isnt totally feeling right. Since other players have needed 9-18 months to fully recover from this I choose to believe the latter conclusion that his leg wasnt up to snuff yet.

 

[Chaplin]

Its also human nature to compensate on one leg when the other one isnt totally feeling right. Since other players have needed 9-18 months to fully recover from this I choose to believe the latter conclusion that his leg wasnt up to snuff yet.

Too bad other players had much more drastic surgeries than Amare, but that's just semantics.

 

[pokerface]

Too bad other players had much more drastic surgeries than Amare, but that's just semantics.

How was Amares microfracture different than other players? Did they drill smaller holes in his knee Chaplin?

 

[Chaplin]

How was Amares microfracture different than other players? Did they drill smaller holes in his knee Chaplin?

Actually... yes.

 

[pokerface]

Actually... yes.

Show me. Show me where they said because of Amares small lesion his recovery time will be half of what another players would be.

 

[Chaplin]

Show me. Show me where they said because of Amares small lesion his recovery time will be half of what another players would be.

Nobody is saying anything about recovery time. You are disputing that his left knee felt fine when he came back for those three days. I submit that it did and still does feel fine--mostly because nobody--including Amare and the doctors--have said to the contrary. Don't believe them if you want to, but I tend to listen to them than someone on a message board. Especially someone with a name like "pokerface".

 

[Cheesebeef]

Show me. Show me where they said because of Amares small lesion his recovery time will be half of what another players would be.

uh - you asked this:

"How was Amares microfracture different than other players? Did they drill smaller holes in his knee Chaplin?"

And Chap asnwered "yes" 0 which is true and then you follow up be syaing "show me" something completely different than the question I originally asked. Do you often just ingore or outright change the question you asked when you get an answer that proves you wrong? (even though I agree that bringing Amare back at this point would be unbelievably stupid).

 

[pokerface]

Well then since smaller holes were drilled and everything was omptimal and working in Amares favor he shouldnt have ANY complications with his comeback...right? He should be right out there busting chops instead of doing more rehab and dodging reporters.

OR

Maybe he was rushed back before he was ready and used too much of his good knee to bear the weight of his bad one. Bottomline he wasnt ready despite all the positive spin about his small lesion. He still had a radical procedure done which requires standard (minimum) timeframes to get 100% healthy. Otherwise he'd be out there right now instead of us talking about it.

 

[Chaplin]

OR

His left knee was fine, but he put too much overcompensation on the right one, which inflamed a problem that was there already (the cyst). He had that removed and was done for the season. It has nothing to do with his left knee not being strong enough to return. His left knee has been fine the whole time--even though your entire arguement is based on that left knee being in horrible shape.

His current rehab is for the right knee, which was a basic and standard procedure. And admittedly, it doesn't hurt to have a little bit more time on the left knee to strengthen the muscles, but if his right knee was fine, we almost certainly would have Amare on the team right now.

 

[elindholm]

enough nonsense

I can't believe how many times we've been over this. This will be my last post on the subject. I put "nonsense" in the title so that I will be able to search for it easily later, and that way I can just link back to this every time the topic comes up again.

Microfracture surgery does not create problems. Its poor track record is because it has, in many high-profile cases, failed to solve problems. There is a big difference. All microfracture does is drill some tiny holes in a bone. Bones heal. Athletes suffer broken bones all the time and come back full strength, especially if it is a simple or incomplete fracture and there is no problem setting the bone correctly. The question is whether the pseudo-cartilage is enough to compensate for the damage that has already been done to the knee. In most cases, it hasn't been, but that's not the fault of the procedure.

It's fairly easy to tell whether an athlete has built up the muscle strength and flexibility to be ready to come back from an injury. I'm sure that the Suns staff won't let Stoudemire on the court until he passes those tests. But whether the joints are up to the stress and pounding that comes from actual game play can be determined only through "field testing." You can wait six months, or a year, or five years, and still not know. You just have to try.

Hardaway's knees were shot from the time of his first surgery. His microfracture procedure did not cause any additional problems. He did not "come back too soon." His knees were blown beyond repair, and no amount of waiting would have changed that.

The fact that Stoudemire has needed microfracture surgery is, most likely, a very bad sign. The surgery itself won't cause long-term problems, but it isn't undertaken except for a problem with no other clear remedy. It's fairly likely that Stoudemire will never be the same again. But no amount of waiting is going to change that. Once he has built up his strength, flexibility, endurance, and confidence, it's time to get on the floor. That might be next season, it might be this summer, it might be in two weeks, or it might even be tonight. But if his knee is gone, it's gone, and it won't be a question of his having come back too soon.

Jason Kidd, Chris Webber, and others took multiple years to get back to something approaching full strength. But they played while building that strength back up. They did not risk further injury while on the court, any more than any player risks injury every time he steps on the floor. It was not a mistake for them to come back before they were fully ready. There were parts of the game, aspects of movement, that they had to re-learn, and the only way to do that was in live action.

No one knows what is in store for Stoudemire's knees. At this point, it is all pretty much destined, the answer buried deep within the subtleties of his joints. The Suns will have to face that destiny sooner or later and cross their fingers for a favorable outcome. But postponing the test just for the sake of crossing more weeks off of the calendar isn't going to change their odds.

 

[Ollie]

That pretty much sums up everything about Amare's knees. So maybe we should stop beating a dead horse and let the docs do their jobs... (And as far as I'm concerned I'd love to see an healthy Amare back this year, but sadly it's highly unlikely).

 

[pokerface]

Amare was given an unrealistic goal of 4-5 months recovery time to get back on the court. He tried to meet that goal and overused his good knee in the process. Did the microfracture cause that...no. It was the lofty rehabilitation expectations set by the Suns that caused it because Amare tried to live up to it. The Suns virtually always give best estimate "pie in the sky" recovery times for players returns. Instead they should just say Amare comes back when he's ready and not throw times out there unless they are broad spectrum timeframes with generous allowences like between 9-12 months. The Suns want to pressure players back as quickly as possible and thats where the comparisons to Penny are valid because Penny himself said he felt pressured by the Suns to come back before he was ready. Penny tried to live up it like Amare did and faltered as well. No one in their right mind should have taken the Suns return estimates as serious but the press and fans did take it seriously which ended up pressuring Amare needlessly and jeopardized other parts of his body to fulfill some crazy expectations. Players dont comeback from that in under 9 months and be anywhere near 100% PERIOD.

 

[elindholm]

"Apes don't read philosophy."

"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it."

 

[Chaplin]

Amare was given an unrealistic goal of 4-5 months recovery time to get back on the court. He tried to meet that goal and overused his good knee in the process. Did the microfracture cause that...no. It was the lofty rehabilitation expectations set by the Suns that caused it because Amare tried to live up to it. The Suns virtually always give best estimate "pie in the sky" recovery times for players returns. Instead they should just say Amare comes back when he's ready and not throw times out there unless they are broad spectrum timeframes with generous allowences like between 9-12 months. The Suns want to pressure players back as quickly as possible and thats where the comparisons to Penny are valid because Penny himself said he felt pressured by the Suns to come back before he was ready. Penny tried to live up it like Amare did and faltered as well. No one in their right mind should have taken the Suns return estimates as serious but the press and fans did take it seriously which ended up pressuring Amare needlessly and jeopardized other parts of his body to fulfill some crazy expectations. Players dont comeback from that in under 9 months and be anywhere near 100% PERIOD.

Where have you been? Since day 1, the Suns have said that Amare would come back when he felt he was ready. And he felt he was. He never foresaw the problems with his right knee, as far as he was concerned, it was about his left knee and that knee always felt fine, during and after the short stint on the floor.

 

[pokerface]

Everything was fine up until he was back in rehab right Chaplin?


Amare himself doubted his comeback then Jerry stepped in and played doctor trying to talk some "sense" into Amare. The Suns and their bought and paid for Doctors set this up with their LUDICROUS four month statements. I knew then it was BS to sell season tickets...someone should have let Amare in on the joke though. Instead Amare got hounded by the press almost daily..."When you coming back Amare when you coming back"...so In turn Amare pushes his rehab harder and faster than it should and says things like "I'm ahead of schedule everyone!". Yeah Amare...you were ahead of schedule because your good knee was getting pushed too hard with your bad one and this is the end result. If he would have taken his time with rehab I doubt the probelm with the other knee would have developed like it did.

 

[elindholm]

Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

 

[jenna2891]

 

[Ollie]

"Apes don't read philosophy."

"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it."

Yeah and Aristotle was not Belgian, the central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself,' and the London Underground is not a political movement.

 

[Ollie]

You must be registered for see images

 

[Chaplin]

Everything was fine up until he was back in rehab right Chaplin?

LOL

I'm done with you since you refuse to understand a word that anyone is saying.

 

[pokerface]

Chaplin you're saying or implying that his bad knee had no bearing on his good knee....I think it did because of over compensation.

You dont think his rushed recovery dates had anything to do with this set back...I think it could have because he might have pushed his rehab too hard.


Real simple folks...if you're openminded.

 

[jenna2891]

Real simple folks...

your folks are real simple? that would explain this argument...













j/k