Will the Suns do the right thing?

[Cheesebeef]

I think what slin and AzSteven are trying to say is it doesn't matter much having a starting Center when the rest of the team is terrible... and sadly that's what we have here.

as to the idea that you can rebuild within two years and sighting the Celtics and Heat as examples, you miss one HUGE difference between those teams and this Suns team... there's no Wade/Pierce plus either cap room/high draft picks and big young players to trade or bring players in with. Now, if we still had Amare, you'd have you Pierce/Wade... but we don't.

Thus, even if by some miracle, this team was able to add TWO MAX players (Allen/Garnett or Bosh/James) there's still no Pierce/Wade to put them with... or even entice them to come here.

I don't know that I'd trade Gortat, but you bet your ass i'd send Nash and hill packing to Orlando for Jameer Nelson (who I'd then waive with the amnesty) and a future first round pick which will probably be good considering i fully expect Howard to bolt like LeBron did.

I mean... how the hell did we not even get a first round pick for Shaq? The Cavs were DESPERATE to make a move to get something to make LeBron happy, Shaq was coming off his best season in years and we just dumped him for a wad of cash. Team needs to learn from it's mistakes. Trade Nash now to a team that's likely going to give it one more run, try and look into the future and take a risk and get a pick back to help us when we get back on our feet... also, this helps us be atrocious in a year where the draft will be the best in years.

that being said, I fully expect us to destroy what's left of Nash's career by doing nothing but waiving Peitrus and signing someone else mediocre which will help us end up with the 10th best record in the West and take up valuable cap space next year.

this season will be awful. book it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You say that with a solid Center, we can be a competitive team.

But then you say you'd give him up to become a championship contender.

How are you going to become a championship contender without a solid Center?

The Suns have tried that for decades, and those decades have proven that it just doesn't work. Our longest tenured Center weighed 212 lbs. Zero championships in 43 years.

And you wouldn't? I want to keep Gortat BUT if we are offered a deal that is too good to pass up, then you just don't pass it up. I think you might be drawing the wrong conclusion from my post though as I really do not want to trade him.

We don't have a lot of assets. In fact, the cupboard might be more bare for us than perhaps any other team. I think most teams in the NBA are, at worst, potentially no more than 3 good drafts from being a championship contender. Unfortunately, I don't think we fall in that group. All we really have is Gortat and two old guys that are rapidly depreciating.

If someone is willing to overpay for Gortat, I say let them. But if all we're being offered is equal or near equal value, we're better off keeping him. We're not going to be very good anyway (especially once Nash and Hill retire or move on) so we might as well have a fan friendly big guy that gives you full effort every night. If we get lucky and one of our not so highly regarded draft picks turns out to be a steal, who knows what could happen?

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

that being said, I fully expect us to destroy what's left of Nash's career by doing nothing but waiving Peitrus and signing someone else mediocre which will help us end up with the 10th best record in the West and take up valuable cap space next year.

Kind of like letting Amare walk and signing a trio of crap? If Sarver is still owner, this is exactly what I anticipate.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think what slin and AzSteven are trying to say is it doesn't matter much having a starting Center when the rest of the team is terrible... and sadly that's what we have here.

as to the idea that you can rebuild within two years and sighting the Celtics and Heat as examples, you miss one HUGE difference between those teams and this Suns team... there's no Wade/Pierce plus either cap room/high draft picks and big young players to trade or bring players in with. Now, if we still had Amare, you'd have you Pierce/Wade... but we don't.

Thus, even if by some miracle, this team was able to add TWO MAX players (Allen/Garnett or Bosh/James) there's still no Pierce/Wade to put them with... or even entice them to come here.

I don't know that I'd trade Gortat, but you bet your ass i'd send Nash and hill packing to Orlando for Jameer Nelson (who I'd then waive with the amnesty) and a future first round pick which will probably be good considering i fully expect Howard to bolt like LeBron did.

I mean... how the hell did we not even get a first round pick for Shaq? The Cavs were DESPERATE to make a move to get something to make LeBron happy, Shaq was coming off his best season in years and we just dumped him for a wad of cash. Team needs to learn from it's mistakes. Trade Nash now to a team that's likely going to give it one more run, try and look into the future and take a risk and get a pick back to help us when we get back on our feet... also, this helps us be atrocious in a year where the draft will be the best in years.

that being said, I fully expect us to destroy what's left of Nash's career by doing nothing but waiving Peitrus and signing someone else mediocre which will help us end up with the 10th best record in the West and take up valuable cap space next year.

this season will be awful. book it.

I really do not see the Suns FO making any intelligent moves. It does not appear to be in their DNA. Amare and Shaq... they were not worth a first round pick... heavy sarcasm here.

 

[Superbone]

I'd trade Gortat for that center he used to back up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd trade Gortat for that center he used to back up.

We don't have to make that trade, Lopez is still on our roster.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

We don't have to make that trade, Lopez is still on our roster.

Steve

Yay.

 

[slinslin]

I don't know that I'd trade Gortat, but you bet your ass i'd send Nash and hill packing to Orlando for Jameer Nelson (who I'd then waive with the amnesty) and a future first round pick which will probably be good considering i fully expect Howard to bolt like LeBron did.

Ummm that does not make sense. You would trade Nash for Nelson to amnesty Nelson? What do we gain by that? Paying millions of dollars for nothing to trade Nash and get a very late first round pick?

I think we can do better than that. Some contender must be willing to offer an expiring and a draft pick for Nash. Remember teams under the luxury tax must come only 150% within matching salaries.

eg.

Atlanta : Hinrich(exp)+first round pick for Nash
Clippers : Nash+Childress for Kaman(exp) and Foye(exp)
Knicks : Nash+Childress+Warrick for Billups(exp) and Turiaf(exp)

 

[slinslin]

If we traded Nash for Nelson we should keep Nelson. Why would you amnesty a player that has positive value.

That deal would only be worthwhile if Orlando was willing to give up their 2012 pick and 2014 pick with no or very little protection.

1. Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Josh Childress for Rajon Rondo and Rasheed Wallace(exp)
2. Steve Nash, Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick for Chauncey Billups(exp) and Ronny Turiaf(exp)
3. Steve Nash for Kirk Hinrich 2012 pick, 2014 pick
4. Steve Nash for Jameer Nelson 2012 pick, 2014 pick

I wonder if Memphis would trade OJ Mayo for Pietrus and Lopez. If you had Mayo, Dudley, Morris and your own 2012 tanked pick, capspace and whatever you could get from Nash/Gortat/Childress/Frye the outlook for 2013 would be not that bad.

 

[chickenhead]

Sure, for the right deal I'd trade Gortat. But I would not trade him for the sake of it, or on the assumption that the next 5 years are a wash. But honestly, the cynic in me makes me think the current moment is one where teams like the Suns get fleeced and not the other way around. I worry about a rash trade justified as "necessary for the new era" or something like that.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure, for the right deal I'd trade Gortat. But I would not trade him for the sake of it, or on the assumption that the next 5 years are a wash. But honestly, the cynic in me makes me think the current moment is one where teams like the Suns get fleeced and not the other way around. I worry about a rash trade justified as "necessary for the new era" or something like that.

I agree. You just don't trade Gortat because you think your team might suck for the next 5. We have seen this before where some team implodes and wild trade scenario happens or a number of teams desperate to shed salary. Next thing you know you have a few good pieces and your in business again. Too much can happen.

Not that I am confident this FO can get anything done but we have seen weirder things happen. Hell, Sarver could be gone by then (crossing fingers).

 

[chickenhead]

Not that I am confident this FO can get anything done but we have seen weirder things happen. Hell, Sarver could be gone by then (crossing fingers).

Everything crossed! I don't expect Phoenix to rival LA, NY, Chicago, Boston, Miami etc. as a destination, but it should be on the level below that. It's a good basketball market with generations of fans now, and it has weather and lifestyle advantages, plus proximity to California and Las Vegas. Not to mention a training staff that extends careers (one of my biggest worries is that this will change).

A good owner plus future ambassadors like Nash and Hill alongside legends of the Suns past? It's nothing to sneeze at, IMO. I think it would be a great situation for a new owner and I hope Sarver cashes in on that. It's not like the Valley isn't somewhere an out-of-town owner wouldn't mind making his or her winter home. The new CBA and some soon-to-be expiring deals plus whatever prep moves Sarver could make could turn this into the perfect time for a sale.

But now back to reality...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ummm that does not make sense. You would trade Nash for Nelson to amnesty Nelson? What do we gain by that? Paying millions of dollars for nothing to trade Nash and get a very late first round pick?

I think we can do better than that. Some contender must be willing to offer an expiring and a draft pick for Nash. Remember teams under the luxury tax must come only 150% within matching salaries.

eg.

Atlanta : Hinrich(exp)+first round pick for Nash
Clippers : Nash+Childress for Kaman(exp) and Foye(exp)
Knicks : Nash+Childress+Warrick for Billups(exp) and Turiaf(exp)

i do that because the Magic are in the same exact position that the Cavs were in and are desperate to make some kind of move to get Dwight to stay and when it inevitably fails (which it will just like the Shaq deal in Cleveland), Orlando will lose Howard and will be awful once Howard leaves, so we give them what they think will get dwight to stay... it still won't be enough and we get a future lotto pick out of the deal.

sending Nash to the Clippers/Knicks/Atlanta does NOTHING for us because those teams will actually be good with hima nd the picks will be late first rounders (if you can even get those picks) and I have no faith in our FO to draft someone late in the first round.

 

[slinslin]

And why would you amnesty Nelson? Makes no sense.

Also a 2012 Orlando pick would not be lottery so you would have to look at 2013 and 2014. If you want to get a 2013 pick they can't trade you a 2012 pick. So I'd want 2012 and 2014.

Atlanta will be terrible in 2014 as well if Nash retires and not as good as Orlando in 2012 so I'd prefer Hinrich, 2012, 2014 over Nelson, 2012, 2014 maybe swap Warrick and Pachulia since Pachulia has 1 year less on his deal.

The Knicks might not have as good picks combined but they have more expiring contracts if they gave up on 2012 free agency. They could take Nash, Childress and Warrick and return us Billups and Turiaf.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we traded Nash for Nelson we should keep Nelson. Why would you amnesty a player that has positive value.

That deal would only be worthwhile if Orlando was willing to give up their 2012 pick and 2014 pick with no or very little protection.

1. Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Josh Childress for Rajon Rondo and Rasheed Wallace(exp)
2. Steve Nash, Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick for Chauncey Billups(exp) and Ronny Turiaf(exp)
3. Steve Nash for Kirk Hinrich 2012 pick, 2014 pick
4. Steve Nash for Jameer Nelson 2012 pick, 2014 pick

I wonder if Memphis would trade OJ Mayo for Pietrus and Lopez. If you had Mayo, Dudley, Morris and your own 2012 tanked pick, capspace and whatever you could get from Nash/Gortat/Childress/Frye the outlook for 2013 would be not that bad.

Why the hell would the Cs trade Rajon Rondo for the above? He's what makes that team go and is their only young building block.

And Memphis is going to trade Mayo for two complete pieces of garabage? What do they get out of the deal besides our trash?

 

[Cheesebeef]

And why would you amnesty Nelson? Makes no sense.

Alos a 2012 Orlando pick would not be lottery so you would have to look at 2013 and 2014.

duh... that's why in my initial post I said we should ask for a future 1 pick from Orlando.

and you amnesty Nelson because he's got a fat contract and he's an non impact player. either that or find people on smaller contracts/expirings to make the deal happen.

 

[Superbone]

Not that I am confident this FO can get anything done but we have seen weirder things happen. Hell, Sarver could be gone by then (crossing fingers).

Yep, the jury's still out on Babby and Blanks. They had a hit with the Gortat trade but struck out (or at least were thrown out at first on a routine ground out) with the Brooks/Dragic+pick trade.

The Markieff Morris draft choice is still in the air. I'm hoping it drops for a solid base hit.

 

[slinslin]

Nelson has 2 years at about 8M$ remaining. That is not a fact contract considering he is a pretty good player.

Why would you pay him 16M$ for doing nothing? Makes no sense. You could trade him somewhere else most likely.

 

[slinslin]

Why the hell would the Cs trade Rajon Rondo for the above? He's what makes that team go and is their only young building block.

The Celtics are not actively shopping Rajon Rondo, but the team is open to trading him in the right deal, according to sources.

Boston believes they need more scoring to assist Paul Pierce.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216820/Celtics_Would_Consider_Dealing_Rondo#ixzz1f7N0uzUW


Sounds to me like Nash would be perfect for that. Plus Nash expires in 2012 like Garnett and Allen so the Celtics could go hard for Howard and Paul. Also they get Gortat.

Gortat/JO
Garnett/Green
Pierce/Childress
Allen/?
Nash/Bradley

And Memphis is going to trade Mayo for two complete pieces of garabage? What do they get out of the deal besides our trash?

Memphis fans seem to like it. Mayo does not hold great value right now. Memphis needs a backup for Gasol and another guard.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1138811

 

[slinslin]

What teams are in the worst shape going forward?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1131939&start=30


Top vote getters

1. Phoenix Suns 59 votes
2. Charlotte Bobcats 55 votes
3. Detroit Pistons 44 votes
4. Orlando Magic 39 votes
5. Milwaukee Bucks 30 votes
6. New Orleans Hornets 28 votes
7. New Jersey/Cleveland Cavalliers 12 votes
9. Golden State Warriors 3 votes

Sad but true unless this franchise finds the reset button fast..

 

[AzStevenCal]

What teams are in the worst shape going forward?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1131939&start=30


Top vote getters


Sad but true unless this franchise finds the reset button fast..

Unfortunately, there is no reset button. Our best chance just passed us by (7 year lockout). Now, all we can do is trudge along until Sarver is gone. I'm not convinced that Sarver is as bad as he's portrayed but he is bad and his public perception is even worse than Sterling's at his worst. We are playing with one hand tied behind our back until he's no longer associated with this franchise.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Also they get Gortat.

Slin,

No matter how many time you say/ suggest we trade Gortat, it is NOT going to happen.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Slin,

No matter how many time you say/ suggest we trade Gortat, it is NOT going to happen.

If we sign Howard, I would be OK with trading Gortat.

 

[slinslin]

Why the hell would the Cs trade Rajon Rondo for the above? He's what makes that team go and is their only young building block.

And Memphis is going to trade Mayo for two complete pieces of garabage? What do they get out of the deal besides our trash?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_boston_celtics_rajon_rondo_112911

Celtics in talks with Pacers

The Celtics have been gauging Rondo’s trade value for more than a year, and have held discussions with teams about him across the past few trade deadlines and NBA drafts. There have long been divides within Boston’s front office, coaching staff and locker room about Rondo. He can be moody, difficult and stubborn, and several league sources were dubious if the Pacers’ young coach, Frank Vogel, would have the stature to deal with Rondo.

Nash and Gortat for Rondo

I would do it in a heartbeat.

Rondo is not perennial allstar but he is a borderline allstar, still young, somewhat reasonable deal and in my opinion a good building block for a contender.

If we could get Mayo a Rondo/Mayo backcourt and Dudley/Morris at the forward spots is a decent foundation for a start and then add the best player you can get in the 2012 draft though a PG does not make much sense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_boston_celtics_rajon_rondo_112911

Celtics in talks with Pacers



Nash and Gortat for Rondo

I would do it in a heartbeat.

Rondo is not perennial allstar but he is a borderline allstar, still young, somewhat reasonable deal and in my opinion a good building block for a contender.

If we could get Mayo a Rondo/Mayo backcourt and Dudley/Morris at the forward spots is a decent foundation for a start and then add the best player you can get in the 2012 draft though a PG does not make much sense.

Sorry, Rondo has more flaws than Gortat. He can hide them on the C's because they have so many other weapons. Rondo would be so exposed on the Suns it would be scary.