With the 4th pick, the Phoenix Suns Select

[overseascardfan]

What non-sense.

Amare learned to shoot form his rookie season to his sophomore season.

Ellenson is more sound than Chriss? Maybe you could explain that because the only thing Ellenson does better is defensive rebounding. Chriss is a better shooter than Ellenson already.

Ellenson
- better post game
- better rebounder
- better passer
- better ball handler

Chriss shot 35% from 3 pt range compared to 28% for Ellenson. Ellenson made more but also took more. But, using that logic, Sabonis is a better 3 pt shooter than both at just under 36% going 5-14 on the year.

Ellenson is a much better FT shooter than Chriss (75% compared to 68%) which is an indicator that 3 pt percentage may not be exactly a great indicator that Chriss is a better shooter. He shot over 53% from the field but that is because most of his inside shots were dunks.

Chriss has more lateral quickness and leaping ability but he has a 8'9 standing reach and 7'0 wingspan compared to 9'0 standing reach and 7'2 wingspan for Ellenson. Chriss averaged 1.6 bpg compared to 1.5 bpg for Ellenson. Ellenson played more minutes a game but the reason for that is because Chriss was constantly in foul trouble because he lacks discipline on the defensive end (4.1 fouls per game), Ellenson averaged 2.5 per game.

I take the more NBA ready player in Ellenson at #4.

 

[slinslin]

Ellenson
- better post game
- better rebounder
- better passer
- better ball handler

Chriss shot 35% from 3 pt range compared to 28% for Ellenson. Ellenson made more but also took more. But, using that logic, Sabonis is a better 3 pt shooter than both at just under 36% going 5-14 on the year.

Ellenson is a much better FT shooter than Chriss (75% compared to 68%) which is an indicator that 3 pt percentage may not be exactly a great indicator that Chriss is a better shooter. He shot over 53% from the field but that is because most of his inside shots were dunks.

Chriss has more lateral quickness and leaping ability but he has a 8'9 standing reach and 7'0 wingspan compared to 9'0 standing reach and 7'2 wingspan for Ellenson. Chriss averaged 1.6 bpg compared to 1.5 bpg for Ellenson. Ellenson played more minutes a game but the reason for that is because Chriss was constantly in foul trouble because he lacks discipline on the defensive end (4.1 fouls per game), Ellenson averaged 2.5 per game.

I take the more NBA ready player in Ellenson at #4.

The standing reach is wrong. But anyway Chriss is the better shotblocker.

Marquese Chriss has better advance stats on both defense and offense.

OBPM 2.8
DBPM 3.1

Ellenson

OBPM 0.9
DBPM 2.7

Offensively Washington was a completely different team with Chriss in the lineup. Chriss offensive rating is a stellar 112, while the team only produced a 106 on average. Defensively Chriss was in line with the rest of the team despite his strong DBPM numbers.

Ellenson on the other hand made less of an impact (+2 on offense and defense).

A much better freethrow shooter also shoots better than 7% better. True shooting percentage which factors everthing has Chriss at 58% and Ellenson at 53%.
And effective FG% Chriss leads 56% to 48% which is a massive difference.

Blocks also a significant edge for Chriss.

Overall efficienty Chriss ~22 PER, Ellenson 21 PER

Postgame? Try to back that up because bottom line is that Ellenson is not an efficient shooter which almost certainly means that he does not have an efficient post game.

And I would heavily dispute that Ellenson is the better ball handler. Chriss has legitimate perimeter skills for a 4. Chriss was a guard until a late growth spurt.

Ellenson gets slightly more assists but also touched the ball a lot more. 27% usage to 24% usage. Chriss played alongside a dominant PG that is likely to go first round.

That starts with his ability to stretch the floor from beyond the 3-point line, where Chriss made a solid 21/60 (35%) of his attempts. He has a compact stroke, and natural touch on his shot, being capable both with his feet set and even off the dribble in small doses. He could possibly stand to raise his release point a bit, and not contort his body on his release, but there's no question he has legit range on his jumper and will be able to develop into an even better shooter down the road as he's able to perfect his technique.

Chriss also shows the ability to attack his man off the dribble with a strong first step, while driving in either direction. He shows impressive footwork and body control with his spin moves, and excellent timing attacking closeouts, even though his ball-handling skills are a work in progress and his reluctance to finish with his left hand sometimes put him in awkward situations around the rim.

Chriss shows some semblance of a post game, mainly with his ability to shoot turnaround jumpers and right-handed hook shots with very soft touch from unique angles. He tends to shy away from contact at times, and is still working on developing the strength and footwork needed to utilize his outstanding combination of quickness and explosiveness on a full-time basis, but he has great potential operating in the mid-post area. He'll be very difficult to handle facing up in that range for most power forwards with his ability to make jumpers and blow by opponents with his terrific first step.

Chriss also shows strong potential as a roll-man and cutter, with his very soft hands and ability to get up the floor in the blink of an eye to make plays above the rim. He doesn't always show the best feel for playing off the ball, and is inconsistent with the effort he shows sprinting to the rim, but has the tools to be a very good finisher if he wants to.

One area teams will want to see Chriss develop to be a full-time perimeter oriented forward is with his passing ability. His assist percentage and pure point rating both rank fourth worst among the 22 collegiate power forwards in our Top-100 rankings. His lack of experience comes into play here, having only a couple of years of experience playing competitive basketball under his belt, but so does his feel for the game, which appears to be average at best right now.

 

[slinslin]

Most importantly Chriss projects to be a threat in the pick and role game at either shooting the open shot or attacking the rim.
Something the Suns desparately need and Ellenson won't provide.

Ellenson moves like he had hip surgery.

 

[JS22]

Who is a better player, Jahlil Okafor or whoever we can pick at #4? I say Okafor. I'd make this trade if the 76ers were willing.

Okafor. I'd make that trade 100/100 times, even with his issues.

I don't think Philly would do it, and throwing in Knight (Which is something that has been mentioned) might actually be a negative at this point.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not being able to guard a chair and boxing out is pathetic, but it worked out pretty well for Amaré, and he didn't learn how to shoot until his knees got busted.

The problem with guys like this is that they can learn how to shoot but they seldom improve their fundamentals, so when they get injured/age and loose their freak athletic ability they're not much good.

It's a tough spot to be in. I'd rather grab Murray and a more sound PF like Ellenson (at #13) than pick Chriss. If he develops into Amaré (or the Mario Elie to his Jordan -- Garnett) then I (the Suns) look pretty stupid but as soon as he goes down we look good again.

I mean Murray looks to be the real deal. A great replacement for Knight (as 6th man).

Should we try to trade Knight for #8 and gamble on getting Chriss there?

I don't know. Guess they do what they want and don't ask my advice.

On some points we agree. It will be tough to pass on Murray as he might be the BPA at #4. However, I can see the Celtics trading out of the #3 pick which may effect the whole draft. Murray could be drafted there.

I'd trade Knight for #8 if it can be done to draft Chriss, Ellenson or Davis. Team workouts should tell the story.

The Suns could then double down with another big man at #13.

Another scenario the Suns might draft Bender at #4, then come back again and draft another big man at #13. Bender has all the tools but he will need time to develop them. He may well be worth the wait. He is only 18 but I like his skills. He just needs to get bigger and stronger.

If the Suns could trade for the #8 pick it would give them a lot of flexibility in the draft and the ability to make trades.

 

[overseascardfan]

The standing reach is wrong. But anyway Chriss is the better shotblocker.

Marquese Chriss has better advance stats on both defense and offense.

OBPM 2.8
DBPM 3.1

Ellenson

OBPM 0.9
DBPM 2.7

Offensively Washington was a completely different team with Chriss in the lineup. Chriss offensive rating is a stellar 112, while the team only produced a 106 on average. Defensively Chriss was in line with the rest of the team despite his strong DBPM numbers.

Ellenson on the other hand made less of an impact (+2 on offense and defense).

A much better freethrow shooter also shoots better than 7% better. True shooting percentage which factors everthing has Chriss at 58% and Ellenson at 53%.
And effective FG% Chriss leads 56% to 48% which is a massive difference.

Blocks also a significant edge for Chriss.

Overall efficienty Chriss ~22 PER, Ellenson 21 PER

Postgame? Try to back that up because bottom line is that Ellenson is not an efficient shooter which almost certainly means that he does not have an efficient post game.

And I would heavily dispute that Ellenson is the better ball handler. Chriss has legitimate perimeter skills for a 4. Chriss was a guard until a late growth spurt.

Ellenson gets slightly more assists but also touched the ball a lot more. 27% usage to 24% usage. Chriss played alongside a dominant PG that is likely to go first round.

Per Ford:
Ellenson is right there with Chriss as a stretch-4. I saw him in a workout in Bel-Air on Tuesday morning and he was impressive as well.

Ellenson measured 6-foot-11.5 in shoes with a 7-foot-2.5 wingspan at the combine. That’s the size of most centers in the NBA.

Yet Ellenson seems more comfortable playing away from the basket. He shot just 29 percent from 3-point territory in college, but you wouldn’t know it by how well he shot the ball in workouts. While his release is a bit on the slow side, he has great shooting form and showed he could hit shots with regularity from anywhere on the floor.

He also possesses a crafty midrange game and excelled in a series of drills, where he specialized in the step-back jumper — a Dirk Nowitzki specialty.

Ellenson is bigger and a better rebounder than Chriss. He also has a more refined midrange game, too. But he lacks the elite athletic ability and rim protection that Chriss provides.

That lack of explosiveness may end up hurting him as teams in the mid-to-late lottery decide between the two. But Ellenson’s floor seems significantly higher than Chriss’ and a team wanting to go a safer route (especially a team that thinks they can play him as a stretch-5) might choose the more polished Ellenson.

Per Draft Xpress
At 20 points per-40 minutes, Ellenson ranked among the most prolific freshmen in college basketball this season offensively. Able to put the ball in the basket from virtually anywhere on the floor, his instincts and natural scoring touch are extremely impressive for someone his age.

Ellenson shows potential as a perimeter shooter, knocking down 30 3-pointers in 33 games this season, but is not quite there yet in terms of consistency, hitting just 29% of his attempts. Looking at his shooting mechanics, and the fact that he knocked down 75% of his free throw attempts, it's not difficult to envision him becoming an effective floor spacing big man in time, as his streakiness as a shooter seemed to have more to do with shot-selection than any concerns about his natural ability. He was very effective in the mid-range area, hitting 40% of his attempts on the season there (SST), sometimes pulling up off the dribble impressively, but had a tendency to short-arm many of his 3-point attempts, which often came with a hand in his face.

What separates Ellenson from most big men is the skill-level he demonstrates with the ball in his hands. He's extremely impressive with his ability to put the ball on the floor, not just when grabbing a defensive rebound and going coast to coast, but also in the half-court, using shot-fakes, advanced ball-handling moves and body control to create his own shot and get to the rim.

Ellenson is a real mismatch at his size, something that can probably be utilized even more effectively with NBA spacing, particularly in smaller lineups with multiple shooting options surrounding him. He's the rare big man who can be utilized effectively as the ball-handler in both pick and roll or isolation situations, as he can drive left and right and mix in some impressive change of speed and direction moves. He knows how to slow down and speed up instinctively with his long strides to beat defenders and make his way to the rim, and utilizes outstanding footwork to spin around opponents and finish with soft touch.

Ellenson's strong frame helps him finish through contact, even if he's not incredibly explosive off two feet, and he got to the free throw line an impressive seven times per-40 minutes, which helped compensate for his relatively pedestrian 49.5% 2P%. He's also a very good rebounder, averaging a strong 11.8 per-40. His sturdy frame, excellent hands and terrific timing and anticipation skills all play a role in his prowess as a glass-cleaner, which has been the case virtually everywhere he's been thus far statistically, showing the emphasis he places on this part of his game.

While far more comfortable operating with his face to the basket, Ellenson also shows potential in post-up situations as well, something we may not have seen the best of operating alongside another 6'11 interior player in Luke Fischer. He has the requisite strength needed to establish solid post position, as well as the skill-level needed to create his own shot in the low post and finish with either hand or utilizing turnaround jumpers.

You can't deny Ellenson is more NBA ready right now in terms of skill. Chriss is better defensively, won't argue that but Ellenson is ready to contribute right away whereas Chriss is going to take years to develop. Ellenson is a better ball handler, he played PG up until HS and is known for his ball handling ability which separates him from other bigs in the draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ellenson is one of the big men I like. One thing I noticed on video the other day that gives me some concern is when opponents drive at him, he could not elevate to block or alter their shots. I do agree he is probably the most ready to play PF. Also he has size to fall back on as he develops.

 

[slinslin]

With Ellenson and Len you should have a very poor pick and roll game.

The Suns need a forward that can set picks, make the open jumper or roll to the basket and finish strong. That is not Ellenson and also not Horford btw.

 

[WuRaider]

I'm sold on Chriss. There's no star PF coming here, might as well develop our new Amare.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sold on Chriss, not by a long shot. But I'd probably take him anyway, we might as well go for the high ceiling pick. I don't like Murray at all and I have serious doubts about Dunn, Hield and the other high profile guards.

If this was the NBA of 10 years ago, I'd take Ellenson and be thrilled about it. In today's game though I doubt he excels unless he can improve his lateral quickness and explosion. I think that's possible, he's not as lean as he could be. But I don't know if that's more likely than teaching Chriss how to play basketball. I think Bender, Chriss and Brown are all huge boom or bust picks. In this draft, that's probably the best we can hope with our first pick so I'll be fine with any of them.

 

[leclerc]

Say we get Chriss at #4. Who do we target at #13?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Say we get Chriss at #4. Who do we target at #13?

I'd guess Sabonis but I wouldn't be surprised if we went after Ulis or Maker. Ulis has a safe floor but it remains to be seen whether you can win with a PG that small. Maker has a bottomless pit for a floor but his ceiling is similar to that of the guy we expect to take at 4.

 

[slinslin]

Say we get Chriss at #4. Who do we target at #13?

This guy on the right!

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[elindholm]

Congratulations on posting the lamest video this board has seen in several years. Seriously dude.

 

[Mainstreet]

Does anyone know if the Suns have worked out Murray, Chriss or Ellenson?

I'm anxious for more feedback.

 

[sunsfan88]

Congratulations on posting the lamest video this board has seen in several years. Seriously dude.

 

[sunsfan88]

Still with the Bledsoe hate? WHY? Where does it come from? Booker is our future star, but Bledsoe is CLEARLY our current one.

It's not hate, it's truth. Bledsoe isn't capable of handling many minutes due to his injury issues. I don't think his body is built is for it.

Bledsoe is no star. Durability is as important as any other basketball skill when deciding stardom.

Bledsoe at this point is about as reliable as Derrick Rose is.

 

[3rdside]

Ellenson vs Chriss post one of the best I've seen in a while slin - great reading


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[slinslin]

I think in a perfect world the Suns keep Knight and have Bledsoe, Booker and Knight each play ~30mpg comining for 90 of 96 minutes at the guard spots already.

This would allow them to draft SF-Brown or PF-Chriss at 4.

#4 PF or SF
#13 SF or PF or C
#28 C or SF or PG
#34 PG or C

 

[3rdside]

Brown at 4
Ellenson at 13 (could get comfortable with maker here as ellenson's upside is solid but limited imo but happy to leave that to the fo)
Qi at 28 (don't think he'll be there)

Would think a guard at #4 is a definite no.



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[3rdside]

If we could land Chriss and brown by trading down and up from 4 and 13....well that's an A+++ right there


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[3rdside]

And no I don't know if that's realistic or not


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[AzStevenCal]

And no I don't know if that's realistic or not

Yeah, I don't think it is. I think we'll have to grab Brown or Chriss at 4, I don't see either of them lasting very long. Same with Maker, if we really like him we'll have to take him at 13 (assuming he's even still there). At this point, I'm just hoping we don't take Skal, Murray or Dunn with any pick although I might change my mind on Murray if his workouts go well. But with less than ideal length and lateral quickness, I think he's a limited minutes player off the bench at the next level.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah, I don't think it is. I think we'll have to grab Brown or Chriss at 4, I don't see either of them lasting very long. Same with Maker, if we really like him we'll have to take him at 13 (assuming he's even still there). At this point, I'm just hoping we don't take Skal, Murray or Dunn with any pick although I might change my mind on Murray if his workouts go well. But with less than ideal length and lateral quickness, I think he's a limited minutes player off the bench at the next level.

From what I've heard, Maker's workout with us wasn't that great, so I'm not sure we'll reach for him at 13.

 

[AzStevenCal]

From what I've heard, Maker's workout with us wasn't that great, so I'm not sure we'll reach for him at 13.

I hadn't heard that but I find it a little reassuring. The alarms really go off for me with him despite the fact he's far more a mystery to me than anything else.