tnmike
Hall of Famer
To a pessimist it's everything
2021 Training Camp Thread
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I'm not a pessimist though. I've backed all our FA signings and even Alford's return. I like the draft class. I like our RB room. I think the roster has improved and we have a playoff shot.
The only thing I have major doubts over are Kliff, but he's earned those doubts over 2 seasons.
Goldfield
Formally known as BEERZ
I completely agree
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
That you're too jaded.
I read that statement as a huge positive. Being flexible and allowing pros to make on the field decisions is a great thing.
The HC shouldn't be saying "We're running Dagger 55. You guys pick which route you like".
The HC should be deciding which WR he likes matching up against which DB. He should be deciding which WR has the better skill set for the route required, because for Nuk and Green has very different skill sets.
Based on these comments you can have a situation in a crucial division game where Nuks thinking "I don't have a TD today. I've only got 20 yards. I've only got 3 TDs this year and it's game 10. I'd rather run the post meant for AJ rather than the 10 yard out route I'm supposed to run".
Kliff thinks he's treating them like men, and of course the players love it. The same way the kids love seeing Daddy every other weekend because he let's them eat what they want and stay up late.
tnmike
Hall of Famer
Speculation and nonsense running wild
Garthshort
ASFN Addict
You lucked out not taking the Cowboys bike. Probably would have blown a tire.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
You lucked out not taking the Cowboys bike. Probably would have blown a tire.
Forks would probably snap like an ankle.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I think players should have input. I don’t think they should have this latitude. There’s a reason a coach is the coach - it’s supposed to be a position where he can see things objectively and act therein. As Brit points out, players (a) don’t have that ability typically; and (b) don’t have a more global perspective of what is transpiring. If they see an advantage - tell the coach or kyler and make a change in the fly. Don’t open up the floodgates.
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What exactly is speculation? Kliff is quoted right there saying he's happy for them to work it out for themselves and what I wrote is what happens when you abdicate your responsibility and let players decide what they do.
tnmike
Hall of Famer
Because it's not YOUR responsibility to decide if somebody abdicated their responsibility. Nothing has happened and yet you want to condemn somebody because you dreamed that it might. Let's arrest everybody because they MAY commit a crime . See how that works?
QuebecCard
ASFN Addict
In the huddle, NUK/Green say they spotted something. KM receives play from KK and adjusts, not change, the play in light of the earlier conversation. Result: TD pass to Green underneath with NUK going long.
KK says: "Hey! I'm in charge here and you run the play I call, no change - Got it!" ...... or ----
KK says: "Nice adjustment... great execution!"
QuebecCard
ASFN Addict
tnmike
Hall of Famer
It's a training camp not a prison camp
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Is this a joke? It's not my responsibility to decide if somebody is abdicating their responsibility?
Firstly, I suggest you get to grips with the concept of how internet forums work. You seem to be struggling with that part.
Second, I'm not deciding anything. It IS the responsibility of the OC to decide where his receivers are positioned and here's that guy saying "You guys can swap routes if you like, you don't even have to check with me". I don't have to decide if that is abdicating responsibility, that plainly is abdicating responsibility and it's a recipe for disaster.
One thing I know from 25 years of managing people is they always, ALWAYS work in their own self interest. Even when they think they or tell you they aren't. And if you give them wide latitude to make their own work related decisions they will inevitably make those decisions based on what's best for them and not what is best for the company. This is no different.
Call me a traditionalist but I like my OC's / Play calling HC's to make the decisions. I like them to move the WR's around based on what they see as best matchups because (call me crazy here) that's their freakin' job. And I want them to do that based on the looks they get from the D, the game plan they spent all week putting together and based on situational football.
Now Kliff doesn't do that anyway, which is bad enough, but now he's saying "You know what, if you guys like a route decide among yourselves who runs what". Well that's nuts.
I'd have no issue with it if a) Kliff was taking advantage of matchups and moving guys around and/or b) The WR's had to check in with Kliff and get his ok before making such a change. But neither of those things are happening.
Answer me this. In the whole history of football do you recall any OC/play calling HC saying that their WR's can just switch their routes whenever they want? I know some of you are shrugging this off because you're thinking "Well it makes sense to a degree with 2 experienced vets and if they see something they like they should take advantage of it" and you're right, and other wide receivers do the same thing but you bet your ass before they do it they run it past their OC and get permission.
This is just another example to Kliff's lax attitude to the responsibilities of his job.
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perivolaki
perivolaki
Then you haven't watched football long enough. Quarterbacks used to call their own plays.
Things evolve.
Saying we've always done it that way, or we do it this way now so why change is a poor excuse for never changing.
You've got two veteran players who I'm sure would like to get to the playoffs and maybe a super bowl some day.
I don't have an issue with it.
QB's have long called their own plays based on what they see on the field and they are in communication with the OC/HC until the clock hits 15 seconds. The QB is the HC's man on the field, but you get your ass if the QB changes a call and gets it wrong the HC/OC is going to chew them out over it (Well, all of them but Kliff).
Heck why don't we just let the team do what they want? I don't know why we bother having a HC. Let Kyler call the plays, let the WR's run whatever routes they want and the OL block who they like. DB's can all fight over covering WR3 so they look good.
There's a big difference between collaboration and listening to your vets, and just letting them do what they like.
This line sums up the problem "You've got two veteran players who I'm sure would like to get to the playoffs and maybe a super bowl some day." The natural second line to that is "and they have better chance deciding their own routes than having the guys who's job it is do it for them".
tnmike
Hall of Famer
All the ranting and not 1 single game that counts has been played
Zeno
Ancient
So you are saying that nobody should say anything until the season starts, got it. Ok, weird but ok I guess.
Pretty sure everyone is allowed to say what they like forum police.
Also, you can make informed decisions based on historical performance. Which is why Kliff is on everyone's hot seat list and he's in the top 6 of coaches most likely to be fired. I don;t need us to play a game to know what Kliff is.
football karma
Michael snuggles the cap space
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the quoted line is a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng way from "lets switch sides on this play"
