24 Hours to Finally Know Once and For All...How Cheap the Cardinals Really Are

[cardsfanmd]

What's emabarassing is you not knowing why... It was not permitted under the league's CBA.

Harley went and fought for my country and for all the free people in this world not too long ago and has my eternal appreciation and respect for doing so. While I doubt that means anything to you I think it should and I know it means a lot to others on this board.

Being rude for no good reason other than to be rude is completely unneccessary and really makes you look like an ass. You do it pretty often and it seems as though you rarely post other than to point out things you dont like about other peoples' posts. I know this is gonna go in one ear and out the other, but you really may want to begin to use a modicum of reprocity before insulting people whom you dont know. You never know when you might need them or how you may already be in debt to them.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Collins team had a good year. Collins did not.

I was thinking the same thing. I would venture to say that Kurt's #'s probably came close to doubling Collins'.

edit- Upon further review, Warner threw 18 more touchdowns than Collins, 2,000 more yards and had a 10pt higher QB rating.

 

[Mitch]

Harley went and fought for my country and for all free countries in this world not too long ago and has my eternal appreciation and respect for doing so. While I doubt that means anything to you I think it does mean a lot to others on this board.

Being rude for no good reason other than to be rude is completely unneccessary and really makes you look like an ass. You do it pretty often and it seems as though you rarely post other than to point out things you dont like about other peoples' posts. I know this is gonna go in one ear and out the other, but you really may want to begin to use a modicum of reprocity before insulting people whom you dont know. You never know when you might need them or how you may already be in debt to them.

You should heed your own advice, MD. You have been one of the more ruder posters on this board in recent weeks. You show very little respect at times.

That said, Harley was making good points and didn't deserve to be treated the way he was.

It would be nice if we could respectfully agree or disagree with one another, rather than disparage people.

 

[Shane]

You should heed your own advice, MD. You have been one of the more ruder posters on this board in recent weeks. You show very little respect at times.

That said, Harley was making good points and didn't deserve to be treated the way he was.

It would be nice if we could respectfully agree or disagree with one another, rather than disparage people.

Harley didnt deserve to be spoken to that way for sure. But his points were out of left field and crazy. No way the team should have ever paid that bonus even if it was aloud.

 

[cardsfanmd]

You should heed your own advice, MD. You have been one of the more ruder posters on this board in recent weeks. You show very little respect at times.

I may be the only poster on this entire board who has yet to blast you for you your occasional post from left field. No matter how far from reality you have been, I have always thanked you for your effort. Since we're on that subject, dont you have a secret meeting with one of your "inside sources" right now to confirm that the Cards are trading St Pierre for the Chiefs' entire draft?

Furthermore, I sincerely doubt I am one of the "more ruder" biglaugh posters here. Find me a recent post where I insulted someone before they insulted me and I'll leave the board.

 

[Carddan]

I used to think that winning consistently would forever make the "cheap" and "same old..." labels go away. I now believe that if we reach that success (not there yet) that the labels will always rear their ugly heads at times. What will change is that they won't bother me any more. If we win our Division three years in a row and maybe sneak in a SB Championship it won't matter if people call the organization cheap. Until that time, I will be rubbed the wrong way by those comments because even that perception is one of the things that is holding us back. (of course, in as much as there has been any truth in the labels, that has held us back also).

 

[Mitch]

Harley didnt deserve to be spoken to that way for sure. But his points were out of left field and crazy. No way the team should have ever paid that bonus even if it was aloud.

The Cardinals have gotten one of the greatest steals of the century in Kurt Warner, regardless of that disputed bonus. Warner deserves, especially this time around, to be fairly compensated. He is a Top 5 QB. He proved that the last 27 games.

 

[cardsfanmd]

The Cardinals have gotten one of the greatest steals of the century in Kurt Warner, regardless of that disputed bonus. Warner deserves, especially this time around, to be fairly compensated. He is a Top 5 QB. He proved that the last 27 games.

If you told your boss that you were underpaid a few years ago do you think they would pay you more this year? If Warner wanted more money in '05 he should have brought that up in '05.

 

[D-Dogg]

Huh. I didn't know that. I still hear the talking heads on talk radio re-hash it often. Not doubting you, but I heard as recently as two weeks ago it was still a sore spot with Warner.

BTW- the incentive was acheiving a QB rating of 90.0 and he finished at 89.5, mostly due to the arm injury.

From everything I saw at the time, the NFL said it could not be paid and denied the Cards from paying it. Probably stems into players' union issues.

And Harley, no offense, but you need to press your tongue to a salt lick when those radio hacks get to flapping their gums.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Harley went and fought for my country and for all the free people in this world not too long ago and has my eternal appreciation and respect for doing so. While I doubt that means anything to you I think it should and I know it means a lot to others on this board.

Being rude for no good reason other than to be rude is completely unneccessary and really makes you look like an ass. You do it pretty often and it seems as though you rarely post other than to point out things you dont like about other peoples' posts. I know this is gonna go in one ear and out the other, but you really may want to begin to use a modicum of reprocity before insulting people whom you dont know. You never know when you might need them or how you may already be in debt to them.

What service to one's country, and using an incorrect example to say, once again, that the Bidwill's are cheap has to do with anything is beyond me.

My response was a bit curt, but lessons in behaviour from someone who is viewed as an overt racist by some on this board, and never misses an opportunity to wrap himself in the flag, is more than a bit rich.

Address me, when you are addressed.. and feel free to put me on your ignore list...

 

[Carddan]

Per Florio, seems fairly accurate and notice the lack of hostility or contension on either side...

WARNER, AGENT NEED TO GET ON SAME PAGE

Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:41 AM

So why hasn't quarterback Kurt Warner re-signed with the Cardinals? The problem possibly traces to the dynamics between Warner and his agent, Mark Bartelstein.

For weeks, Warner has been saying he plans to play for the Cardinals or no one. More importantly, Bartelstein has allowed him to do so.

That's where the seeds for the current mess were planted. Either Bartelstein didn't explain to Warner the realities of leverage, or Bartelstein did and Warner failed to understand or heed the advice.

And, of course, Bartelstein didn't help the situation by declaring prior to the start of free agency that Warner will play in 2009.

The logic is simple, then. If Warner says he's playing for Arizona or no one and Bartelstein says Warner is playing, then x equals pi and Warner is playing for Arizona.

That's why the Cardinals won't go any higher than somewhere between $10 million and $12 million per year for an aging quarterback who has only one or two years left. Warner says he wants "market value" -- but that's his market value because the other teams in the market know that he's not leaving.

And even though ESPN.com is throwing Bartelstein a bone by pushing the notion that the 49ers are in play, a league source assures us that the 49ers know exactly what's going on.

Said the source, "Warner wants to re-sign but the agents are really pushing this [49ers] thing."

(Coincidentally, ESPN.com did the same thing a year ago when Randy Moss didn't want to leave New England but wanted to squeeze the Patriots with a better offer from another team, promoting the ridiculous suggestion that Moss and Daunte Culpepper were shopping themselves as a package deal.)

It's a common phenomenon in situations like this. Bartelstein and company want to be able to trumpet to current and future clients their ability to get a graybeard paid like a Manning. But, in their quest to enhance their own wall of pelts, the interests of their current client -- Kurt Warner -- could be suffering.

Things could get very interesting if the Cardinals were to begin decreasing their offer, but that could be the kind of thing that would spark a market for Warner by making other teams think that he'd possibly leave.

And that's the only easy way out of this maze -- something needs to happen to persuade another team that an offer for Warner wouldn't be taken straight to the Cardinals in the hopes they'd match it. Unless Arizona does something to alienate Warner (like decrease the current offer $100,000 per hour until it's accepted), the 49ers and every other team will continue to believe that, in the end, Warner is going nowhere.

 

[Duckjake]

how much cash extra did the bidwills make this year compared to last?

Don't have 2008 but:

2007 $203 million in revenue and $21 million in Operating Income.

2004 $153 million in revenue and $16.2 million in Operating Income.

Estimated Franchise value increased from 673 million to 914 million.

According to Forbes

 

[john h]

Who...cares.

Let's all jump off a cliff because the Cardinals won't pay a 37 year old QB 14 million a year when they have other needs to address, and they aren't trading the young QB on the roster like the OP wants.

Not giving Warner his 14 million isn't going to destroy this team. In fact, we overpaid a QB a decade a go for a nice playoff run, and let the rest of the team walk and have paid the price ever since.

RE-LAX.

The proof is on the field, not in the front office. They could go out and drop money like water, and have nothing to show for it. See Snyder, Daniel.

If Warner is not signed then lets take a look at the post this time next year. We rode on his and Fitz's backs all the way to the superbowl. What is a superbowl QB worth to a team than has never even smelled one? Yes, the Bidwills have always been cheap. That is fact not fiction and the reason we have been the laughing stock of the NFL for decades. Money in the bank account of the Bidwills is not going to help this team win. There are winning owners and there are those who are in it to make as much money they can. We were lucky to get Warner and were lucky to get Boldin were we did in the draft. In the next few weeks we will see if the Bidwills and Graves have changed their method of operations or not. At the moment it does not look good but things can change.

 

[red desert]

If Warner is not signed then lets take a look at the post this time next year. We rode on his and Fitz's backs all the way to the superbowl. What is a superbowl QB worth to a team than has never even smelled one? Yes, the Bidwills have always been cheap. That is fact not fiction and the reason we have been the laughing stock of the NFL for decades. Money in the bank account of the Bidwills is not going to help this team win. There are winning owners and there are those who are in it to make as much money they can. We were lucky to get Warner and were lucky to get Boldin were we did in the draft. In the next few weeks we will see if the Bidwills and Graves have changed their method of operations or not. At the moment it does not look good but things can change.

Shefter and Len Pasquarelli (sp?) I think were discussing Collins and Warner.

They seemed to agree that Az needed to ante up a couple mill more to get Warner signed. Said had become the face of the franchise and that the Cards would be making a huge mistake if they didn't sign him.

They went on to say that Collins' contract should not strictly be used in trying to figure out what Kurt should get since. Their value to their respective teams is different. Titans win because of their running game and defense, while the Cards win because of Kurt's arm.

Despite some haters on the board here, I think Shefter is one of the best. That other guy too.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Spend the money on the players who Brought Ya.

My feelings exactly. Thank you.

 

[Brian]

What service to one's country, and using an incorrect example to say, once again, that the Bidwill's are cheap has to do with anything is beyond me.

My response was a bit curt, but lessons in behaviour from someone who is viewed as an overt racist by some on this board, and never misses an opportunity to wrap himself in the flag, is more than a bit rich.

Address me, when you are addressed.. and feel free to put me on your ignore list...

You mean like how you addressed me when I wasn't talking to you?

Not sure who you are calling a rascist, I assume cardsfanmd. Either way, lately you have been an ass. So feel free to put me on ignore.

BTW - It's not like the ENTIRE NFL world doesn't consider the Bidwills cheap. There is a reason why they have earned that title. It's called history.

I think with the revenue generated by UofP stadium they are shedding that image, but we'll see. Time will tell.

As far as me being wrong...if it wasn't for Rattay always coming in on the goaline, Warner would have EASILY earned that bonus. CBA aside, he should have been paid.

That kind of crap isn't lost in a locker room.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You mean like how you addressed me when I wasn't talking to you?

Not sure who you are calling a rascist, I assume cardsfanmd. Either way, lately you have been an ass. So feel free to put me on ignore.

BTW - It's not like the ENTIRE NFL world doesn't consider the Bidwills cheap. There is a reason why they have earned that title. It's called history.

I think with the revenue generated by UofP stadium they are shedding that image, but we'll see. Time will tell.

As far as me being wrong...if it wasn't for Rattay always coming in on the goaline, Warner would have EASILY earned that bonus. CBA aside, he should have been paid.

That kind of crap isn't lost in a locker room.

There is no such thing as the CBA aside, it's the contract that dictates the relationship between management and players. The Cards simply lived by the rules. That was my point, curtly put, I admit. But, the Bidwill's are cheap, etc... is really, really getting old. If disagreeing with you makes me an ass, so be it.

And the "r" reference was certainly not to you.

 

[Brian]

There is no such thing as the CBA aside, it's the contract that dictates the relationship between management and players. The Cards simply lived by the rules. That was my point, curtly put, I admit. But, the Bidwill's are cheap, etc... is really, really getting old. If disagreeing with you makes me an ass, so be it.

And the "r" reference was certainly not to you.

I have zero problem with anyone disagreeing with me. As long as it stays there.

If the CBA wouldn't allow it, so be it. I guess it falls into the pile of bad luck for Warner then.

I too realize that the franchise was hamstrung by playing in SDS, but I also have to wonder how they would have been if they had gotten UofP sooner.

Stories like making the players years ago buy their own extra cleats and what not is how they got the label.

Like I said, I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I have zero problem with anyone disagreeing with me. As long as it stays there.

If the CBA wouldn't allow it, so be it. I guess it falls into the pile of bad luck for Warner then.

I too realize that the franchise was hamstrung by playing in SDS, but I also have to wonder how they would have been if they had gotten UofP sooner.

Stories like making the players years ago buy their own extra cleats and what not is how they got the label.

Like I said, I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

Me too!

 

[cardsfanmd]

My response was a bit curt, but lessons in behaviour from someone who is viewed as an overt racist by some on this board, and never misses an opportunity to wrap himself in the flag, is more than a bit rich.

And whom am I viewed as a racist by and what for? I know LIAC calls me one because I didn't vote for Obama (my voting for Michael Steele only solidified his need to libel me), but are there any sane people out there that would ever say that? Here you go bud. If anyone on this board can find one remotely racist comment I have EVER made I will give them all of my A$FN bucks and leave here permanently.

I feel like I am sitting here surrounded by teenage girls with the way senseless gossip gets passed around this place. For you to spread propaganda like that really speaks to your character. I know nothing of you, how would you feel if I passed along a message that you were a pedophile? How about a rapist? What if decided one day I would type that you abused dogs and nidan permabanned you?

Grow up.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

And whom am I viewed as a racist by and what for? I know LIAC calls me one because I didn't vote for Obama (my voting for Michael Steele only solidified his need to libel me), but are there any sane people out there that would ever say that? Here you go bud. If anyone on this board can find one remotely racist comment I have EVER made I will give them all of my A$FN bucks and leave here permanently.

I feel like I am sitting here surrounded by teenage girls with the way senseless gossip gets passed around this place. For you to spread propaganda like that really speaks to your character. I know nothing of you, how would you feel if I passed along a message that you were a pedophile? How about a rapist? What if decided one day I would type that you abused dogs and nidan permabanned you?

Grow up.

Grow up... character... unfounded accusations...

Like when you accused me of being anti-American?

(which would come as a surprise to my American born wife and her family)

Goggle the term "jingoism" your photo should be there...

Put me on ignore... that's where you're going, right now...

 

[Shane]

As far as me being wrong...if it wasn't for Rattay always coming in on the goaline, Warner would have EASILY earned that bonus. CBA aside, he should have been paid.

Thats conjecture at it its finest Harley! Cards didnt put Rattay in to avoid the bonus. You have no idea if he would have reached the bonus otherwise. Also he had ample opportunity to get said bonus and he FAILED! End of story. You just dont make exceptions. At what decimal point does the exception stop then? Too big a can of worms. Kurt did not hit his target thus did not deserve the money!

 

[joeshmo]

Thats conjecture at it its finest Harley! Cards didnt put Rattay in to avoid the bonus. You have no idea if he would have reached the bonus otherwise. Also he had ample opportunity to get said bonus and he FAILED! End of story. You just dont make exceptions. At what decimal point does the exception stop then? Too big a can of worms. Kurt did not hit his target thus did not deserve the money!

Yep Kurt wasnt in becuase he could hand the ball off thus a liability on the goal line. Plus you are right it is complete conjecture, he could have thrown an INT or an incomplete pass instead. If Kurt threw one less INT his rating would have been high enough.