Beware the 4th Win

[cardncubfan]

Still hearing from well placed people the Feeling is Monti will trade down and take an OT.

That's just what Monti wants them to think.

 

[Yuma]

He is their best WR. They signed him off the street. He scored a TD today in a game they won by 1. He helped win a game. That is the goal. He had 3 TDs vs the Falcons in a game. That helped them win. Seems like he has improved the team and helped win games.

If you are implying that a player is only valuable if they lead the team to win 9 games, you are probably gong to struggle to sign any player. There isn't a FA on the market who comes with 9 wins.

It's not always about wins. They are trying to establish a culture of how they want their players to approach training, practice, playing, etc. Hopkins was known to not practice. They want guys to practice. It was as simple as that.

 

[slanidrac16]

It's not always about wins. They are trying to establish a culture of how they want their players to approach training, practice, playing, etc. Hopkins was known to not practice. They want guys to practice. It was as simple as that.

Can’t believe we are going to pine about Hopkins.

 

[Yuma]

Can’t believe we are going to pine about Hopkins.

Not me. He wasn't going to fit our timeline on the rebuild. Truth be told he probably wanted on a better team than Houston. It just didn't work out for him.

I liked him. When he was playing well, he was VERY VERY good.

 

[BACH]

Some seem to believe that the only way to rebuild is to get rid of everyone and start from scratch. Maybe it will work but that's a pretty narrow path to take, and using an entire year to evaluate current roster is something good teams simply don't do. It's a ridiculous luxury that good fan bases wouldn't tolerate.

I get your point, but you also have to see all elements here.

New GM, New coach coach.

New System.

Aging roster. Salary cap isssue due to years of trying to buy another competitive team.

Multiple bad drafts in a row depleting the buttom of the roster of young and cheap talent.

Your 40M/year franchise QB out the first 8-12 games.

Based on this Monty did the right move IMO.

On good fans bases... How to define that? Packers fans survived not getting Rodgers any weapons for years. Are Bears fans not a good fan base? Look at the BS they have been dealing with. The Redskins/Comanders? Raiders fans are some of the most dedicated ones. I wouldn't trade our situation for their in a million years.

I like the outlook of this team. Top 3 draft class since 2004. Solid building blocks spread across. A few stars. LOADED with draft picks in a 2024 draft class that is rated to be very good. This team is 2-4 quality starters and good drafting in 2024 away from being competive - long term.

 

[CardNots]

I get your point, but you also have to see all elements here.

New GM, New coach coach.

New System.

Aging roster. Salary cap isssue due to years of trying to buy another competitive team.

Multiple bad drafts in a row depleting the buttom of the roster of young and cheap talent.

Your 40M/year franchise QB out the first 8-12 games.

Based on this Monty did the right move IMO.

On good fans bases... How to define that? Packers fans survived not getting Rodgers any weapons for years. Are Bears fans not a good fan base? Look at the BS they have been dealing with. The Redskins/Comanders? Raiders fans are some of the most dedicated ones. I wouldn't trade our situation for their in a million years.

I like the outlook of this team. Top 3 draft class since 2004. Solid building blocks spread across. A few stars. LOADED with draft picks in a 2024 draft class that is rated to be very good. This team is 2-4 quality starters and good drafting in 2024 away from being competive - long term.

Solid assessment and the best I have seen on this board.

 

[slanidrac16]

I get your point, but you also have to see all elements here.

New GM, New coach coach.

New System.

Aging roster. Salary cap isssue due to years of trying to buy another competitive team.

Multiple bad drafts in a row depleting the buttom of the roster of young and cheap talent.

Your 40M/year franchise QB out the first 8-12 games.

Based on this Monty did the right move IMO.

On good fans bases... How to define that? Packers fans survived not getting Rodgers any weapons for years. Are Bears fans not a good fan base? Look at the BS they have been dealing with. The Redskins/Comanders? Raiders fans are some of the most dedicated ones. I wouldn't trade our situation for their in a million years.

I like the outlook of this team. Top 3 draft class since 2004. Solid building blocks spread across. A few stars. LOADED with draft picks in a 2024 draft class that is rated to be very good. This team is 2-4 quality starters and good drafting in 2024 away from being competive - long term.

Very well said!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I get your point, but you also have to see all elements here.

New GM, New coach coach.

New System.

Aging roster. Salary cap isssue due to years of trying to buy another competitive team.

Multiple bad drafts in a row depleting the buttom of the roster of young and cheap talent.

Your 40M/year franchise QB out the first 8-12 games.

Based on this Monty did the right move IMO.

These are all reasons to punt on an entire season? I'm not buying that.

On good fans bases... How to define that? Packers fans survived not getting Rodgers any weapons for years. Are Bears fans not a good fan base? Look at the BS they have been dealing with. The Redskins/Comanders? Raiders fans are some of the most dedicated ones. I wouldn't trade our situation for their in a million years.

You named one legit franchise here. The rest are almost always at the bottom with us - all for the same reason!

I like the outlook of this team. Top 3 draft class since 2004. Solid building blocks spread across. A few stars. LOADED with draft picks in a 2024 draft class that is rated to be very good. This team is 2-4 quality starters and good drafting in 2024 away from being competive - long term.

Can't wait to see it!

 

[BACH]

These are all reasons to punt on an entire season? I'm not buying that.

You named one legit franchise here. The rest are almost always at the bottom with us - all for the same reason!

Can't wait to see it!

1. I disagree. Cards were stacked from the beginning. Rip the bandaid off, lose a season instead of spreading it over multiple seasons.

2. You said fanbase. Not franchise. Name the franchises we should be comparing to then, please. I can think of the Cowboys and Ravens as the only teams that have put up quality teams consistently over the last years.

3. Me neither.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cutting Hopkins saved us $8 million in cap space this year (which will roll over) and $25 million next year. Plus there were rumors that he wanted out, and rumors that Bidwill demanded Monti get rid of him after Hopkin sat out games while healthy last year.

If we had Hopkins we would probably have 2 or 3 more wins and a draft pick around #14. Without Hopkins we have what should be a top 5 draft pick and $33 million extra cap space to use on a player that is a lot younger.

No one is arguing whether it was a good move or not. He’s being used as an example that the front office was not interested in pursuing wins this season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't really understand how you can give him anything but an incomplete. If his goal was to roll over assets for a successful 2024, you don't know if those investments are paid off.

Right now he turned the 3rd overall pick in the 2023 draft into a B+ right tackle and the 16th pick in the 2024 draft. He built the 26th-ranked offense and 30th-ranked defense in the NFL.

Even if you believe it's all worth it if we end up with a top pick in the 2024 draft, we haven't clinched that yet, either.

This is where I’m at. So much of his action this year is based in what could be next year. So incomplete as an overall grade is appropriate.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

1. I disagree. Cards were stacked from the beginning. Rip the bandaid off, lose a season instead of spreading it over multiple seasons.

Again, you're working from the premise that if we tried to put together a playoff roster for this year, we would be doing long term damage. I'm not sure I agree with that premise.

2. You said fanbase. Not franchise. Name the franchises we should be comparing to then, please. I can think of the Cowboys and Ravens as the only teams that have put up quality teams consistently over the last years.

Apologies if I misspoke...my point in general was that good teams/fanbases EXPECT to be good and to compete. Everyone involved with the Cardinals, from the owner to the front office to the media covering the team don't expect the Cards to win. That is part of the problem.

 

[DVontel]

if we tried to put together a playoff roster for this year, we would be doing long term damage.

That’s literally what Keim had done since 2016 & why we’re in the position we’re in now. Instead of obviously needing to tear it all down, he consistently put alcohol over a torn ACL & kept us in purgatory.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That’s literally what Keim had done since 2016 & why we’re in the position we’re in now. Instead of obviously needing to tear it all down, he consistently put alcohol over a torn ACL & kept us in purgatory.

Your position seems to be any rebuild without a teardown is a Keim. I don't know if that necessarily needs to be the case.

 

[oaken1]

I get your point, but you also have to see all elements here.

New GM, New coach coach.

New System.

Aging roster. Salary cap isssue due to years of trying to buy another competitive team.

Multiple bad drafts in a row depleting the buttom of the roster of young and cheap talent.

Your 40M/year franchise QB out the first 8-12 games.

Based on this Monty did the right move IMO.

On good fans bases... How to define that? Packers fans survived not getting Rodgers any weapons for years. Are Bears fans not a good fan base? Look at the BS they have been dealing with. The Redskins/Comanders? Raiders fans are some of the most dedicated ones. I wouldn't trade our situation for their in a million years.

I like the outlook of this team. Top 3 draft class since 2004. Solid building blocks spread across. A few stars. LOADED with draft picks in a 2024 draft class that is rated to be very good. This team is 2-4 quality starters and good drafting in 2024 away from being competive - long term.

AAaaaahhhh,.... Bach!

 

[DVontel]

I don't know if that necessarily needs to be the case.

It would be floating in a sea of purgatory otherwise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Still hearing from well placed people the Feeling is Monti will trade down and take an OT.

I’m okay with this if MHJ not there and that tackle is fashanu or alt and he gets many treasures.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We don't have a good team. And this season, without Kyler for 8 games, and all the draft mistakes that Keim made, the team was going nowhere.

Are you implying that the Cardinals don't have a good fan base? We have tolerated far worse. At least this regime seems to have a plan and a direction.

Will it work? Only time will tell. But from MY perspective, I am more confident of the future than I was last year when it looked like we were stuck with KK and SK for another 3 years.

I’m curious, how would you describe the “plan” and the “direction?”

Thus far we’ve only seen:

- 1 draft. I’m not sure we can ascertain any pattern from a single draft.

- minor play in FA. We didn’t attack FA we signed short-term low-wage players. Again, these aren’t necessarily long-term strategic moves. How do we discern pattern here, unless that’s IS the long-term pattern in which case we play free agency for scraps, which doesn’t seem a good plan.

- tear down. We’ve seen that part of his plan is a year down and reboot. But as has been said before, that’s literally the easiest part of a rebuild. Anyone cut players for nothing and trade players for peanuts.

So what’s the “plan” and “direction?”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It would be floating in a sea of purgatory otherwise.

I don’t buy this as being automatic in the absence of a total tar down. I’m not going to go back and research it, but I’m going to bet that franchises that are consistently good/competitive never had to go back and do total tear downs. That means they knew how to do replenishments to bridge from one team to another whilst remaining competitive n

 

[kerouac9]

I don’t buy this as being automatic in the absence of a total tar down. I’m not going to go back and research it, but I’m going to bet that franchises that are consistently good/competitive never had to go back and do total tear downs. That means they knew how to do replenishments to bridge from one team to another whilst remaining competitive n

The trick is to re-brand every team that has successfully transitioned but not won every Super Bowl as in purgatory.

Pittsburgh Steelers: Purgatory
Baltimore Ravens: Purgatory
Seattle Seahawks: Purgatory
Chargers: Purgatory
Tennessee Titans: Purgatory
Minnesota Vikings: Purgatory

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The trick is to re-brand every team that has successfully transitioned but not won every Super Bowl as in purgatory.

Pittsburgh Steelers: Purgatory
Baltimore Ravens: Purgatory
Seattle Seahawks: Purgatory
Chargers: Purgatory
Tennessee Titans: Purgatory
Minnesota Vikings: Purgatory

Ah got it. “Trick” is the right word.

 

[kerouac9]

Ah got it. “Trick” is the right word.

When the league is designed for every team to finish +/- 2 games from .500, landing on the plus-side of that zone is not a loss. It's a victory!

I'm going to try hard to not clown the Lions if the end up in the third or fourth seed, because I get that a lot of people are looking to them for inspiration for next year instead of the Texans, who are fighting to make the playoffs after three years of being one of the worst teams in the NFL (and whose leadership shares a lineage with Monti). Dan Campbell said that their goal was to make the dance. I say all the time that you can't win the dance unless you're there.

Every team should aim for 13 wins every year, but that doesn't mean 10 wins in a failure.

 

[TheCardFan]

The trick is to re-brand every team that has successfully transitioned but not won every Super Bowl as in purgatory.

Pittsburgh Steelers: Purgatory
Baltimore Ravens: Purgatory
Seattle Seahawks: Purgatory
Chargers: Purgatory
Tennessee Titans: Purgatory
Minnesota Vikings: Purgatory

Not the same purgatory.

We have like 13-14 winning seasons since 1960 (63 years).

 

[Chopper0080]

It's not always about wins. They are trying to establish a culture of how they want their players to approach training, practice, playing, etc. Hopkins was known to not practice. They want guys to practice. It was as simple as that.

Which is why I have said in multiple posts, Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games and the moves he made reflected that. Winning was secondary and less important to him. It was ok to lose games in service of his rebuild plan.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not the same purgatory.

We have like 13-14 winning seasons since 1960 (63 years).

Because the Cardinals have zero self esteem as a franchise and because they think you can build a winning culture by prioritizing things other than winning.