Bob Kemp on Shaun King on KDUS

CaptTurbo

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LV,

If the cards draft a wr in the first round and Mccown starts 14 games Ill bet you $100 that he passes for over 3000 yards. Deal?
 

Crimson Warrior

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SECTION 11 said:
Nuts?

670 yards in three games with an average completion % of 59.7. Without an offensive coordinator (basically). In the last game he was the leading rusher with 27 freaking yards.

NOT TO MENTION, three starters out on the O line in the last game. Kendell, Big, and Shelton all sat. McCown was running for his life, getting the crap knocked out him, and he still stepped up and led the game winning drive against a defense that would given anything to stop the Cardinals.
 

Crimson Warrior

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LVCARDFREAK said:
Its called Salary Cap

Every team has to deal with it!

You find ways to keep your best players. That isnt an arguement! The Cards dont exist in a vacuum where they are the only ones with a salary cap!

But were watching the Colts implode right in front of our eyes. I don't think there's anyway they make it back to teh division championship game in 04'.

Those fancy pants QBs just aren't worth it. The Tom Brady's and Jake Delehomes are the wave of the future.
 

Duckjake

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Have we not leanred anything from the Plummer years??

I "leanred" every Pro Football season.
 

JeffGollin

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Dont get over infatuated with a 'savior' coach to the point where you dont believe it matters who is on the field!
Thing of it is - it's the coach who has a major say on who's on the field.

So if you feel you've hired a savior coach, you've got to trust him (a) either in seeing what you see and making/not making a move or (b) seeing something you don't see and likewise making/not making a move.

If it turns out King isn't panning out, there are more options than (a) drafting a QB at #3 or (b) drafting a QB later in the draft. Since McCown still remains our #1 QB either way, we can (c) cut King and add another veteran FA.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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swd1974 said:
LV,

If the cards draft a wr in the first round and Mccown starts 14 games Ill bet you $100 that he passes for over 3000 yards. Deal?


IF, IF IF

No, S11's comment was he would pass for 3000 yards at a 60% completion percentage.

I will gladly take that bet! If your game?
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Duckjake said:
Have we not leanred anything from the Plummer years??

I "leanred" every Pro Football season.

I was being bombarded from all sides and responding to post-after-post-after-post.

Have anything else to add to the arguement?
 

Harpo

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Skkorpion said:
I've held off reporting on how a number of individual players performed in mini-camp until other reporters did so first. Just being careful.


Skkorp,
Are you planning on dropping some more knowledge on us about specific guys as time goes on here? Looking back we got next to no reports from the media on anyone specific during camp (except the riding of Bryant by the coaches). We know that the players got worked into the ground, but usually there are some reports of pleasant surprises, disappointments etc. The withdrawal pangs have set in, and I am reduced to begging for table scraps. Any info would be appreciated, and would definitely trump the local news media (which gave us nothing).
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Crimson Warrior said:
But were watching the Colts implode right in front of our eyes. I don't think there's anyway they make it back to teh division championship game in 04'.

Those fancy pants QBs just aren't worth it. The Tom Brady's and Jake Delehomes are the wave of the future.

I thought it was the Rams "Greatest show on turf"?

Wait, no it must have been Joe Gibbs power running attack

Damnit, I am wrong again,I am sorry.... I thought it was the Run-and-Shoot

They are trends people.

The only thing hard-and-true rule is great QB play. Great QB play can take a bad team and make them average. Take an average team and make them good.

Sure you can win with an avergae QB. but you better have a smothering defense to do it.
 

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LVCARDFREAK said:
I was being bombarded from all sides and responding to post-after-post-after-post.

Have anything else to add to the arguement?


Yea, They should rank the playmakers in the draft and try and get the best that they can in the top 10. If that is a QB fine, but I don't agree that QB is a bigger need than any other impact position, with the personel the Cardinals currently have.
 

AzCards21

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LVCARDFREAK said:
IF, IF IF

No, S11's comment was he would pass for 3000 yards at a 60% completion percentage.

I will gladly take that bet! If your game?

And yet you are so willing to give Manning or Ben all of the if's? They haven't played a single snap in the NFL and yet you want to spend all of that money on the riskiest position on the team.

Give Josh one year. We can then argue about next years "can't miss franchise QB" for the next draft. Or just maybe we will be looking for some quality help elsewhere.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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AzCards21 said:
And yet you are so willing to give Manning or Ben all of the if's? They haven't played a single snap in the NFL and yet you want to spend all of that money on the riskiest position on the team.

Give Josh one year. We can then argue about next years "can't miss franchise QB" for the next draft. Or just maybe we will be looking for some quality help elsewhere.


I got no problem with giving Josh this year regardless of who the #3 pick is. But why wait until next year, when we dont even know who the QB's comnig out will be, and lose a year while McCown or King mops up another 4-12 season?

Sooner or later you have to have a QB. Your not gonna get a great QB off the waiver wire. Your gonna have to draft him!

I guess the Cards and their fans can wait another 6 years for a playoff birth! :confused:
 

AzCards21

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LVCARDFREAK said:
I got no problem with giving Josh this year regardless of who the #3 pick is. But why wait until next year, when we dont even know who the QB's comnig out will be, and lose a year while McCown or King mops up another 4-12 season?

Sooner or later you have to have a QB. Your not gonna get a great QB off the waiver wire. Your gonna have to draft him!

I guess the Cards and their fans can wait another 6 years for a playoff birth! :confused:


Why does that have to be the case when the Jets, Rams, Patriots and many others are counting on non 1st rounders. The rest of the NFL is praising them for finding these diamonds. Why are you so convinced Josh doesn't belong in this group?
 

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First off, I hope the reports about King are wrong... I was hapy to see us getting a QB that will have fire inside to still wanna compete for the starting job. I dont think he is a probowler or a savior. But I think he has been a solid QB with the little chance he has had, and might beable to flurish in Greens system.


As for McCown, He is still a huge question mark. But there is no doubt he has all the tools. In Greens system he should have a very good chance to do well....
 

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Unfortunately I can't see the Cardinals cutting loose of Shaun King. It would look pretty foolish after having given him a $ 500,000.00 signing bonus.

I didn't like the signing of King when it was announced and I like it even less now if the reports of his stinking up the joint in mini-camp are correct.
 

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D Williams, Rypien, Theisman, Jim Plunkett, Dilfer, Hostetler, and McMahon won SBs too. This trend has a long history. It has been around for a long time.

There is too much risk with Ben and Eli.
Leftwich is not in this draft. Maybe if Leftwich was DG takes him. DG knows QBs if the thought there was a franchise QB he might take him - the NFL changes! Peyton will soon not have a team around him how good is that going to be? Wasn't Josh the "Phil Rivers" of his draft class wasn't he the 3rd QB or 4th QB taken - he is not some undrafted FA or 7th round pick. They used a high pick on a QB - Josh a 3rd rounder. Now you want to use a 1st rounder on a QB a couple years later.

First round picks need to be starters.
You cannot blow 1st round picks. Very few QBs make it. Or it takes years. The Cards need to make the playoffs for years not wait on the next Plummer. With limited investment in Josh he can be cut easy.

To keep Peyton Irsay actually dug into his personal money to pay him. Irsay is like the Bidwills no income outside football. Remember what happened to the Cards when they paid the big bucks to Plummer they cut 3 guys to pay him.

It is just way to risky look at the busts at the QB position. You have to wait. You have to lose and lose and lose. CLE came to their senses finally. Even if you hit on the QB if he is great you won't be able to keep him eventually. All that money and you have to release him.
It makes no sense.

It's fun to debate but DG knows more about QBs and QBing in the NFL the anyone here. He has made some mistakes Bubby Brister. But look at his track record: Fiedler, Gannon, Cunningham MVP year, B. Johnson, T Bouman, he liked Quincy Carter as a mid round pick. Got good years out of Moon, George etc.

If he is wrong on Josh he will bring in someone else. But if there was one man talking QBs who I would give the benefit of doubt on it would be DG. Shaun might not work out but he was a back up anyway - the key is he thinks Josh will work out and if he is right the Cards can start winning sooner then later and if not he will not stick with his error he will move on.
 
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Stout

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AzCards21 said:
Why does that have to be the case when the Jets, Rams, Patriots and many others are counting on non 1st rounders. The rest of the NFL is praising them for finding these diamonds. Why are you so convinced Josh doesn't belong in this group?

The Jets most certainly are counting on FIRST ROUNDER Chad Pennington...unless you mean a different Jets team? Sorry, I'm not jumping into this crazy argument, but I had to mention this. I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument.
 

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I was kind of hoping to have a QB that would push McCown though, it seems we rarely have that on this team. I hope Parsons get a chance this year in preseason to be our second qb! Before McCown came in to play I wanted Parsons to be our starter...he never got a chance :( I would have liked Blake taken out by game 8 and given McCown and Parsons four games each...
 
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Skkorpion

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Harpo said:
Skkorp,
Are you planning on dropping some more knowledge on us about specific guys as time goes on here? Looking back we got next to no reports from the media on anyone specific during camp (except the riding of Bryant by the coaches). We know that the players got worked into the ground, but usually there are some reports of pleasant surprises, disappointments etc. The withdrawal pangs have set in, and I am reduced to begging for table scraps. Any info would be appreciated, and would definitely trump the local news media (which gave us nothing).

I've already commented about Shaun King, Josh McCown, and Wendell Bryant.

Bryant Johnson was having a fantastic series of practices until he hurt his heel. He caught everything thrown to him. He even laid-out in traffic to pull in an overthrown pass.

McAddley, Gilmore, Poole, and Kasper are all on the bubble, IMO, with McAddley being in the most trouble. Both Kasper and Gilmore were fighting hard, in Gilmore's case showing toughness he's never shown before, and had excellent performances in the 2nd minicamp after looking just okay in the first.

TE Freddie Jones was up and down and with his big salary, he can't afford to be. We have 4 TEs on the roster. They won't all be there for long. Best pass-catcher was Lorenzo Diamond. If he can block and play special teams, Mike Banks and/or Steve Bush are gone, IMO.

Don't count on drafting a RB. Denny Green really likes Josh Scoby a lot.

Among the DBs, Jason Goss (25), Robert Tate (26), andv David Macklin (27) sure seemed to make a lot of plays, including some picks.

And our old friend, Mikchael Stone, actually played pretty well at safety in the absence of both starters.

DE Dennis Johnson will make this team. He just keeps getting better.

LB Gerald Hayes is ready to become a very good NFL starter. This man will thrust himself into national notice very quickly.

On the negative side:

DT Fred Wakefield. He's wearing a cast on his left arm and he stank up the joint from day 1, practice 1, 'till the end of the last practice.

FB James Hodgins may be in trouble, more for making too much money in a scheme that doesn't use a FB a lot, than for any other reason. And Ayanbadejo didn't look great either but he doesn't know the playbook yet and is a special teams demon.

I tried to evaluate the Oline players but I have no clue. So many LTs were injured, the whole line was shuffled. I do know coach Bob Wylie was displeased often but he's not loud so I couldn't hear him.

Shaun King sucks. End of story.

The new DE, number 47, name escapes me, is camp fodder. As is half of our defensive backfield roster.

DE Calvin Pace, DT Marcus Bell, and DT Russell Davis didn't do much to help themselves, IMO.

These are just my impressions from seven practices and I'm sure some will be wrong. So don't put a lot of weight behind them.
 
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SunCardfan said:
I was kind of hoping to have a QB that would push McCown though, it seems we rarely have that on this team. I hope Parsons get a chance this year in preseason to be our second qb! Before McCown came in to play I wanted Parsons to be our starter...he never got a chance :( I would have liked Blake taken out by game 8 and given McCown and Parsons four games each...

McCown is so far ahead of the other two, it sticks out.
 

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Skkorpion said:
Bob Kemp also floated the possibilty of letting King go and picking up another washed-up veteran. If what I saw out of Shaun King continues, I'm with Bob Kemp.

Somewhere Jeff Blake is hoping for a "whoops nevermind you're not cut" phone call that won't come.

Rumor is the Raiders have worked him out but are waiting until after the draft to do something. Mirer signed in Detroit which is fine with Oakland they didn't want him.

Like I said earlier I've always been a King skeptic. Some recent posts made me feel a bit better about him, but this stuff pretty much confirms my fear on him, he's just not accurate. It does sound like he may have a sore arm though if he's looked THAT bad.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Skkorpion said:
Shaun King sucks. End of story.

.


Yet you ragged on me a few weeks back for saying the exact same thing, and praised someone else for posting his career stats. :shrug:


And I didnt even go as far as saying 'he sucks'. :confused:
 

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vikesfan said:
D Williams, Rypien, Theisman, Jim Plunkett, Dilfer, Hostetler, and McMahon won SBs too.
3 of the 4 names you mention WERE 1st round picks...

Jim McMahon--Bears 1st round pick, 1982
Doug Williams--Buc's 1st round pick, 1978
Jim Plunkett--Pat's 1st round pick, 1971
Trent Dilfer--Bucs 1st round pick, 1994
 

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