Cardinals at Commanders gameday thread 9-10-23

[RON_IN_OC]

Furthermore, would any other team in the entire league have considered playing Dobbs?

The evidence of Tennessee picking him to play last year suggests yes.

 

[PACardsFan]

I think they should have had the foresight to not rely on a 37 Year old backup whose only real success in the NFL was with Kliff Kingsbury.

You would think so. It’s easy at this point to say that if we were truly interested in Dobbs from day 1, then why didn’t we sign him back in March? Not a guarantee, but one would reason that Dobbs might have played much better yesterday if he’d been around longer. But, then again, maybe I’m missing the possibility that MOJG were taking into account that many carry over players from the previous regime respected McCoy a ton, and at a time when they were trying to get the old regime players to buy in, bringing in a guy like Dobbs might have created some dissension in the ranks. They paid their respects to McCoy & when it was blatantly obvious to everyone, including those holdovers that McCoy was toast in the Minnesota scrimmages, it was then the time to move to Dobbs.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You would think so. It’s easy at this point to say that if we were truly interested in Dobbs from day 1, then why didn’t we sign him back in March? Not a guarantee, but one would reason that Dobbs might have played much better yesterday if he’d been around longer. But, then again, maybe I’m missing the possibility that MOJG were taking into account that many carry over players from the previous regime respected McCoy a ton, and at a time when they were trying to get the old regime players to buy in, bringing in a guy like Dobbs might have created some dissension in the ranks. They paid their respects to McCoy & when it was blatantly obvious to everyone, including those holdovers that McCoy was toast in the Minnesota scrimmages, it was then the time to move to Dobbs.

Dobbs, in his own words, has said he chose Cleveland over AZ, because he wanted to be on a team he thought would contend.

 

[BritCard]

It doesn’t seem like that to those of us who we’re saying it was an inexplicable decision at the time.

TBF the argument was getting him in March vs trading for him now. And the player said he wanted to stay with a playoff team. So March wasn't an option.

I'm not sure getting him in March vs 17 days ago makes a huge difference to the performance.

 

[PACardsFan]

Dobbs, in his own words, has said he chose Cleveland over AZ, because he wanted to be on a team he thought would contend.

And based on how Cleveland beat up Cincy, he was right lol.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's OK to not complain. Let's normalise "meh, it is what it is".

Backup QBs lose games. We were always likely to be not very good on offense as soon as Kyler was hurt.

McCoy would be bad. Tune would be bad. Dobbs will likely be bad.

The coaches thought Dobbs had the best chance of being least bad in their effort to win games. Was the 5th too much? Probably. But there isn't a team in the league that hasn't occasionally overpaid a little.

It was going to cost a 6th at best so it's nitpicking. It's trivial.

Lots of positives to take away. QB play is unlikely to be one until Kyler returns.

I looked up the stats. Since 2000 backup QBs (excluding starters at the tail end or future starters just starting out) win 1 in 4 games.

This is basically my view of it as well.

I react to the visceral disdain of the smallest of moves. To me, all of these small moves are all "meh".

Overpaying a 5th round pick for Dobbs? Meh.

Dobbs was trash, but it's reasonable to see that you don't want to go into a season with just Tune and it's reasonable to think the offensive staff trusts Dobbs more than Blough.

 

[PACardsFan]

This is basically my view of it as well.

I react to the visceral disdain of the smallest of moves. To me, all of these small moves are all "meh".

Overpaying a 5th round pick for Dobbs? Meh.

Dobbs was trash, but it's reasonable to see that you don't want to go into a season with just Tune and it's reasonable to think the offensive staff trusts Dobbs more than Blough.

Agree 100%. Dobbs is clearly not an NFL starter & he CLEARLY needs way more time in that offense. Until then, it will be difficult for this team to get any W’s until Murray returns. Not impossible, because we almost won yesterday, but difficult just the same.

 

[40yearfan]

Truthfully, the Cards played a respectable game. The defense looked good while the offense looked poor. The Cards were 7 point underdogs, but played hard and the defense gave them several chances to win. One less fumble and 1 pass completed could have won the game. Pronouncing the QB a failure after one game is silly. The competitive spirit is there. Given time (3 - 4 games), the offense might jell and make this team a team to be reckoned with. If management has decided to tank this season, they forgot to tell the players and coaches.

 

[Stout]

Bottom line about yesterday's game, imo, is that we competed.

Absolutely.

 

[Stout]

I think they should have had the foresight to not rely on a 37 Year old backup whose only real success in the NFL was with Kliff Kingsbury.

Also absolutely.

 

[football karma]

i am trying to decide if I should have expected more from a backup QB acquired two weeks ago

if getting competent QB play was as easy as shipping off a 5th rd pick two weeks before the opener and not only getting a QB, but a 7th rounder too ---- why ever take one high?

the failure was in March, not August --- and thats on Monti. I'm a little sympathetic in that maybe the Colt thing surprised them.

But they knew that they would have to survive the first 6 weeks of the season or so -- and in March, there had to be better options out there

 

[Chopper0080]

That one deep throw, really the only one Dobbs made over 20 yards, Wilson tried to go up and stab it out of the air but didn't touch it. How many times did DHop make that exact catch on a similar throw by Kyler? It was still 17-16 at the moment and would've put us in FG range in one play.

The wr room might actually be the least productive one on the team. I thought it would be the cornerbacks and defensive secondary overall. But that unit actually looked better than the WRs as a whole.

Can't evaluate WRs with this level of QB play.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Cards had 11 picks in the 2024 draft before the Dobbs trade. They have 11 picks afterwards and still have two 5th round picks.

I’m sure the Cardinals can still build through the draft with 11 picks. Six of which are in the first 3 rounds.

A bad move is a bad move. The number of additional draft picks we have doesn't change it.

 

[Chopper0080]

i am trying to decide if I should have expected more from a backup QB acquired two weeks ago

if getting competent QB play was as easy as shipping off a 5th rd pick two weeks before the opener and not only getting a QB, but a 7th rounder too ---- why ever take one high?

the failure was in March, not August --- and thats on Monti. I'm a little sympathetic in that maybe the Colt thing surprised them.

But they knew that they would have to survive the first 6 weeks of the season or so -- and in March, there had to be better options out there

I don't put any of this on Dobbs. This is the QB he has shown himself to be. I feel he did the best he could do.

 

[Chopper0080]

This is basically my view of it as well.

I react to the visceral disdain of the smallest of moves. To me, all of these small moves are all "meh".

Overpaying a 5th round pick for Dobbs? Meh.

Dobbs was trash, but it's reasonable to see that you don't want to go into a season with just Tune and it's reasonable to think the offensive staff trusts Dobbs more than Blough.

Where I disagree is that multiple moves equate to big moves. Little becomes big. And to be fair, I was similarly critical of Keim.

 

[Card'em]

I'm not sure the Cardinals had many options in late August when they traded for Dobbs. You just don't find borderline starters or quality backup QB's in late August. The only viable option to me was to go with the rookie Tune, which may have been the better choice. Time will tell when we see a few more games from Dobbs and perhaps a few games from Tune.

 

[Stout]

I'm not sure the Cardinals had many options in late August when they traded for Dobbs. You just don't find borderline starters or quality backup QB's in late August. The only viable option to me was to go with the rookie Tune, which may have been the better choice. Time will tell when we see a few more games from Dobbs and perhaps a few games from Tune.

Yep. Just a failure to plan appropriately.

 

[Card'em]

I understand the circumstances that led to the last second backup QB acquisition, but have no idea what the team was thinking about the running back room. Ingram is not a suitable backup and they have no speed at all. If the running back is so devalued and easy to find late in the draft, why don't the Cards have a better option than Keontay Ingram, Corey Clement, or Demarcadp(spelling?). Connor is fine for the power running game, but needs a speed complement.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I understand the circumstances that led to the last second backup QB acquisition, but have no idea what the team was thinking about the running back room. Ingram is not a suitable backup and they have no speed at all. If the running back is so devalued and easy to find late in the draft, why don't the Cards have a better option than Keontay Ingram, Corey Clement, or Demarcadp(spelling?). Connor is fine for the power running game, but needs a speed complement.

I think the coaches know they need more speed, for sure...that's why you saw Moore with the sweeps.

 

[Chopper0080]

I would love if you can provide data on the following, since you make it sound so simple, and cut and clear:

5th round hit rate in drafts
5th round trades that have resulted in a decent NFL player who is under contract for multiple years and is good

^ the above is what you're arguing for, verbatim. Where does this exist and how do we hire that GM?

Doing some quick digging, here is what I found. (and I am not a data scientist)

Chauncey Gardner Johnson was acquired for a conditional 6th.

Zadarius Smith was acquired for a 5th.

Jets acquired Chuck Clark from the Ravens for a 7th.

49ers traded up 13 spots in the 3rd round for a 5th and and 7th.

Lions moved up 26 spots from the 4th to the 3rd round for two 5th rounders.

Saints moved up 12 spots in the 4th round for a 5th.

Falcons rolled the dice on Jeff Okudah for a 5th.

Brandin Cooks has acquired for a 5th and a 6th.

TE Jonnu Smith was traded for a 7th.

Shaq Mason and a 7th was traded for a 6th.

Stephon Gilmore was acquired for a 5th.

Raiders traded up 3 spots in round 2 for a 5th.

###

Seems like you can do a bunch of things with 5th round picks.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also, out active roster has 35 players who were drafted in the 5th round or later or were undrafted FAs.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Where I disagree is that multiple moves equate to big moves. Little becomes big. And to be fair, I was similarly critical of Keim.

Eh I've liked the big moves. Protecting your QB is vitally important and it's one of Keims biggest missteps. Adding additional picks next year and opening up a ton of cap space is awesome.

If the Cardinals walk away from next draft with MHJ and Fashanu/Alt, we will be singing Monti's praise, especially if Kyler comes back and looks decent down the stretch.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Eagles roster has 24 players who were drafted in the 5th round or later or were undrafted free agents.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Doing some quick digging, here is what I found. (and I am not a data scientist)

Chauncey Gardner Johnson was acquired for a conditional 6th.

Zadarius Smith was acquired for a 5th.

Jets acquired Chuck Clark from the Ravens for a 7th.

49ers traded up 13 spots in the 3rd round for a 5th and and 7th.

Lions moved up 26 spots from the 4th to the 3rd round for two 5th rounders.

Saints moved up 12 spots in the 4th round for a 5th.

Falcons rolled the dice on Jeff Okudah for a 5th.

Brandin Cooks has acquired for a 5th and a 6th.

TE Jonnu Smith was traded for a 7th.

Shaq Mason and a 7th was traded for a 6th.

Stephon Gilmore was acquired for a 5th.

Raiders traded up 3 spots in round 2 for a 5th.

###

Seems like you can do a bunch of things with 5th round picks.

Isnt it nice that the Cardinals have two fifth rounders next year?

Also one of those thirds could potentially add a plus starter.

 

[Chopper0080]

Eh I've liked the big moves. Protecting your QB is vitally important and it's one of Keims biggest missteps. Adding additional picks next year and opening up a ton of cap space is awesome.

If the Cardinals walk away from next draft with MHJ and Fashanu/Alt, we will be singing Monti's praise, especially if Kyler comes back and looks decent down the stretch.

I am of the belief that the success of the draft day trade kinda depends on the future draft picks we acquire but I don't think it was a "bad" move.