Diamondbacks vs Mets series thread

[Mulli]

Bad loss to a bad team... We remain not good enough, period...
McCarthy and our pen aren't good enough... Our outfield production isn't close to being good enough....
It will be a minor miracle should we somehow luck out and make the playoffs...

I submit that it might be time to consider if Towers, Gibson and Company aren't good enough either.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I submit that it might be time to consider if Towers, Gibson and Company aren't good enough either.

Strong case can be made for that... I'm more there on Gibby than I am on Towers, though - I can be swayed on Towers too...
Hernandez, Kennedy, Cahill, Putz, Miggy, Kubel... They all absolutely killed this team this year...
I'm willing to give Gibby and KT one more shot at this thing. I really want to see what they can do to remedy the problems I just mentioned.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ross looked like he was in a ton of pain, dude was covered in sweat.

This season is getting depressing. CHEER ME UP DAVIDSON!

 

[JS22]

Ross looked like he was in a ton of pain, dude was covered in sweat.

This season is getting depressing. CHEER ME UP DAVIDSON!

Figures. Ross was finally playing really well and then this happens.

 

[Bert]

Strong case can be made for that... I'm more there on Gibby than I am on Towers, though - I can be swayed on Towers too...
Hernandez, Kennedy, Cahill, Putz, Miggy, Kubel... They all absolutely killed this team this year...
I'm willing to give Gibby and KT one more shot at this thing. I really want to see what they can do to remedy the problems I just mentioned.

KT will do what he always does. He will bring more bad pitchers into the bullpen and ignore all of our other needs. Thats the KT way.

 

[Phrazbit]

I submit that it might be time to consider if Towers, Gibson and Company aren't good enough either.

I was there on Towers while he was in San Diego. He is a train wreck in free agency and his policy of dragging potential trade bait players through the mud is a tad counter productive.

I still like Gibby, he was a bit slow on the uptake that Hernandez sucks and Tacos cant hit this year, but I've yet to see a manager not give a previously reliable player waaay too much time to right the ship.

 

[Lefty]

I was there on Towers while he was in San Diego. He is a train wreck in free agency and his policy of dragging potential trade bait players through the mud is a tad counter productive.

I still like Gibby, he was a bit slow on the uptake that Hernandez sucks and Tacos cant hit this year, but I've yet to see a manager not give a previously reliable player waaay too much time to right the ship.

Towers needs to be fired after this season if the Diamondbacks want to compete in the near future. He is a horrible GM.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Towers needs to be fired after this season if the Diamondbacks want to compete in the near future. He is a horrible GM.

I have no idea about KT's contract... However, I really don't see Hall throwing in the towel on Towers...
I mentioned a bunch of players above who, if they even came close to their performance last season this team would be on first place... I don't see that as a huge KT failure - though, the lack of depth in the starting pitching is definitely a KT failure.
I think he's done just enough to buy himself next season. So the balance of this year and the offseason will be huge for KT. He's gonna have to find a legit outfield bat, and somehow fix the bottom half if the rotation while also snagging a legit closer... Or else...

 

[Lefty]

I have no idea about KT's contract... However, I really don't see Hall throwing in the towel on Towers...
I mentioned a bunch of players above who, if they even came close to their performance last season this team would be on first place... I don't see that as a huge KT failure - though, the lack of depth in the starting pitching is definitely a KT failure.
I think he's done just enough to buy himself next season. So the balance of this year and the offseason will be huge for KT. He's gonna have to find a legit outfield bat, and somehow fix the bottom half if the rotation while also snagging a legit closer... Or else...

I have no faith in Towers and believe he will destroy the minor league system. He sucked in San Diego and has sucked so far in Arizona.

 

[FArting]

We don't have a shot at winning the West or one of the wildcard slots. We are done.

 

[Broseph]

For whatever reason, this team struggles against the lowly Mets, particularly painful a Mets team without David Wright and Marlon Byrd. This may be the series that starts a painful plummet to .500 and perhaps lower. I can see us getting swept by Baltimore or at best losing 2 of 3. I think the majority of us fans are really starting to question if KT is the right GM for this team, looks like another mediocre season.

 

[Phrazbit]

After Kubel and Ross I am scared to think of what his next effort to find a real outfield bat will be. Probably something like 3 years, 29 million for Jonny Gomes.

He is riding the coattails of the far better GMs before him. Nearly every move he has made has been a whiff, he is fueling his bad trades by moving touted minor league talent that he inherited, and despite being given a bigger payroll to work with than any Dback GM since Colangelo he has only used that advantage to make one free agent blunder after another.

 

[82CardsGrad]

One thing we always should keep in mind is where does this team sit with regard to payroll...
We're at $90 million. And if you look at teams relatively close to us, we tend to stack up fairly well.
For example, the Brewers are at $91 million. The Cubs are at $104 million. The Nats are at $112 million. The White Sox are at $124 million. Of course, the Angels and Giants are well above us at $142 million and we're certainly having a better year than them too...

Right below us are teams like the Braves at $89 million (They are having a great year). The Mets at $88 million. Seattle at $84 million. Cleveland at $82 million. Kansas City at $80 million. Minnesota at $75 million. Colorado at $75 million and the Padres at $71 million.
Of course, the Oakland, Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay are all far below us and are having amazing seasons...

But all in all, I just don't think the Dbacks have performed that drastically out of context with teams that are relatively close to us in salary...
Which is why I would suspect KT is going nowhere.

 

[Mulli]

One thing we always should keep in mind is where does this team sit with regard to payroll...
We're at $90 million. And if you look at teams relatively close to us, we tend to stack up fairly well.
For example, the Brewers are at $91 million. The Cubs are at $104 million. The Nats are at $112 million. The White Sox are at $124 million. Of course, the Angels and Giants are well above us at $142 million and we're certainly having a better year than them too...

Right below us are teams like the Braves at $89 million (They are having a great year). The Mets at $88 million. Seattle at $84 million. Cleveland at $82 million. Kansas City at $80 million. Minnesota at $75 million. Colorado at $75 million and the Padres at $71 million.
Of course, the Oakland, Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay are all far below us and are having amazing seasons...

But all in all, I just don't think the Dbacks have performed that drastically out of context with teams that are relatively close to us in salary...
Which is why I would suspect KT is going nowhere.

Also see, Cleveland at 73 mill, KC at 79 mill, StL at 102, Cincy at 109.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Also see, Cleveland at 73 mill, KC at 79 mill, StL at 102, Cincy at 109.

I mentioned Cleveland and KC...

 

[Mulli]

I mentioned Cleveland and KC...

Trying to multitask here. Sorry.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah, the Dbacks record is not bad, but how have they gotten there? They're riding talent that was already in place when Towers got the job. I cant give Towers credit for a (currently) winning season when virtually none of the guys he is responsible for are the ones doing the lifting... and in many cases they're holding us back.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yeah, the Dbacks record is not bad, but how have they gotten there? They're riding talent that was already in place when Towers got the job. I cant give Towers credit for a (currently) winning season when virtually none of the guys he is responsible for are the ones doing the lifting... and in many cases they're holding us back.

True to a large extent... However, he's been with the team for 4 seasons now.. He's had 4 seasons of drafting and at best, we would just about now or in the next year or two see some of those players in the bigs...
Guys like Corbin & Skaggs are here because of Towers.
I think Nieves was a nice pickup. As was Chavez. And who knows, Delgado has shown promise and could develop into a very solid #3 or #4 in the rotation...
I think it's still too early to close the book on KT. Have his moved all panned out? Nope...But any GM will tell you that along with your own instincts and experience in drafting and making deals, you also need some luck in order to be successful. Hudson getting re-injured... Hernandez falling off a cliff at a rate rarely seen... Miggy hitting 40 points below his career average and 60 points below his 2011 and 2012 averages...
Hill going down and missing the first half of the season...

Yea, Cahill and McCarthy suck... and Bell has been inconsistent at best (I would place him more on the suck side myself given the # of blown saves he's put up)...

I dunno... all and all - I think he's earned another season at minimum. And knowing how much Hall likes him, I would guess KT will be here for many more years to come...

 

[DWKB]

True to a large extent... However, he's been with the team for 4 seasons now.. He's had 4 seasons of drafting and at best, we would just about now or in the next year or two see some of those players in the bigs...
Guys like Corbin & Skaggs are here because of Towers.
I think Nieves was a nice pickup. As was Chavez. And who knows, Delgado has shown promise and could develop into a very solid #3 or #4 in the rotation...
I think it's still too early to close the book on KT. Have his moved all panned out? Nope...But any GM will tell you that along with your own instincts and experience in drafting and making deals, you also need some luck in order to be successful. Hudson getting re-injured... Hernandez falling off a cliff at a rate rarely seen... Miggy hitting 40 points below his career average and 60 points below his 2011 and 2012 averages...
Hill going down and missing the first half of the season...

Yea, Cahill and McCarthy suck... and Bell has been inconsistent at best (I would place him more on the suck side myself given the # of blown saves he's put up)...

I dunno... all and all - I think he's earned another season at minimum. And knowing how much Hall likes him, I would guess KT will be here for many more years to come...

I know for a fact that Towers was advised against the Montero contract. He didn't take that advice and that choice rests on his shoulders.

Now, you're naturally going to evaluate Towers on how well he did from your expectations and per your post you would have made a lot of the decisions that he did. I don't think that makes him a good GM, I think it might just make you a bad one, 82.

Luck is the residue of design.

 

[Mulli]

Towers acquired Corbin and Skaggs?

 

[82CardsGrad]

I know for a fact that Towers was advised against the Montero contract. He didn't take that advice and that choice rests on his shoulders.

Now, you're naturally going to evaluate Towers on how well he did from your expectations and per your post you would have made a lot of the decisions that he did. I don't think that makes him a good GM, I think it might just make you a bad one, 82.

LOL... I respect anyone who sits in a seat where great responsibility is given, and you take your shots. Sometimes they pan out... sometimes they don't.
And of course, for the rest of us, our 20/20 hindsight vision makes us all the best GM's on the planet...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Towers acquired Corbin and Skaggs?

Got them both, along with Joe Saunders in the Dan Haren trade...

 

[Mulli]

Got them both, along with Joe Saunders in the Dan Haren trade...

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=5409169

"[Saunders] brings an element to our club that I think we need," Arizona interim GM Jerry Dipoto said. "The prospects in the deal bring us talent that we need to build with. Therefore, I felt that this deal checked a lot of boxes for the Arizona Diamondbacks."

Sorry, 82.

 

[82CardsGrad]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=5409169



Sorry, 82.

Whoa that's weird... I could've sworn KT joined us in 2010... Hmmmm....

EDIT: Just noticed he became our GM effective September of 2010.

 

[Dback Jon]

Strong case can be made for that... I'm more there on Gibby than I am on Towers, though - I can be swayed on Towers too...
Hernandez, Kennedy, Cahill, Putz, Miggy, Kubel... They all absolutely killed this team this year...
I'm willing to give Gibby and KT one more shot at this thing. I really want to see what they can do to remedy the problems I just mentioned.

Are we really going to blame Towers for those guys stinking this year? I don't know of anyone that would have not wanted Hernandez, Miggy, etc this year. Players have bad years. It happens. Too much blame on GM, not enough on the players themselves.

The GM or Manager is not the one leaving the bases loaded inning after inning

The GM or manager is not swinging at the first pitch (a ball, BTW) after the previous batter walked on four pitches to load the bases.


I WILL criticize Gibby for having Pennington bunt with runners on 1st and 3rd, one out.

And not sure why Chavez didn't pinch hit instead of Pollock