Here's your Suns first round pick in 2005 draft...

[Cheesebeef]

I'd add Marc Ivaroni from the early 80's--and Tom Chambers, if you consider the late 80's Suns title contenders.

considering that they NEVER got to the NBA Finals - I'd say no.

But again - the game has changed - that is the reason I say in the last 15 years. The simple fact that NO ONE can bring up ONE guy in that span should tell you something.

 

[elindholm]

Over-exaggertaion - do I really need to pull up that entire thread pimping the Susage King? Or people freaking out when we traded dog-crap(you know - Casey - the worst "pure shooter" of all time and two white stiffs) for JJ?

You're missing a basic question: Were people on this board excited about those players because they were white, or because they were Suns? My guess is that it's the latter. (For the record, I never thought anything of Vroman, and although occasionally Jacobsen made a nice impression on me, I was never that impressed with him.)

I think if you wanted to ask the question of why the Suns tend to take white players to fill out their bench, that might be interesting. Joe Mama made the same point. But once they put on the uniform, most people on this board are going to fall in love with them, no matter how they look.

 

[fordronken]

You're missing a basic question: Were people on this board excited about those players because they were white, or because they were Suns? My guess is that it's the latter. (For the record, I never thought anything of Vroman, and although occasionally Jacobsen made a nice impression on me, I was never that impressed with him.)

I think if you wanted to ask the question of why the Suns tend to take white players to fill out their bench, that might be interesting. Joe Mama made the same point. But once they put on the uniform, most people on this board are going to fall in love with them, no matter how they look.

I would have hated Howard Eisley just as much if he were white.

 

[Kolo]

considering that they NEVER got to the NBA Finals - I'd say no.

But again - the game has changed - that is the reason I say in the last 15 years. The simple fact that NO ONE can bring up ONE guy in that span should tell you something.

Do Black guys who play like White guys count?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Agreed. I was wondering about Mao's post myself...

Collison's a 24 years old former lottery pick who averages 17 minutes and 5 points and 4 rebounds a game. Sorry but after spending four years at KU, he should be more ready than that seeing in that he's already entering the prime of his career.

 

[corrado]

MaoTosiFanClub

OH, so you are telling me that although I watched every game of the San Antonio vs. Sonics playoffs I never saw Collision play? I see.

So in your opinion any player that is drafted highly in the 1st round if they don't have a solid first season they are a NBA failure. Do you know how crazy that sounds. Collison averaged about 8 points a game and 5 rebounds per game playing 19 minutes a game in the playoffs.

So does that mean the the Clippers should give up on Shaun Livingston who was their first round pick last year and averaged around 7 points per game and played 27 minutes a game.

Your argument holds NO water whatsoever.

 

[Mulli]

I am disappointed in everyone who forgot to mention Jahidi White.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Name me one CAUCASIAN PF that has started/played significant minutes on a CHAMPIONSHIP in the last 15 years. Go ahead - find one.

Kurt Rambis isn't that much more than 15 years ago. He wasn't that good, but he started and played important minutes. He was well respected for his defense and rebounding.

Kevin McHale is a great example, but again just misses your 15-year window.

Bill Laimbeer wasn't exactly a "power player," I guess, but he was plenty strong and more than happy to dish out punishment with the best of them.

Your question isn't fair, because there have been only five championship teams in the last 15 years, so it's a very small sample to draw from. Most NBA players are black, so if you take five players and they all happen to be black, that really doesn't tell you much.

My question is fair because - to put it mildly if you can see that the NBA has become dominated by better athletes during the last fifteen years, well then you're just out of your mind. As far as the small smaple to choose from - in each of those 15 years - there were 30 teams - do you just think it some kind of magical coincidence that the best teams during that run didn't have white PFs? Couldn't that be one of the reason WHY those 5 teams won those titles? BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE BIG WHITE SOFTIES in the game and WE'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THOSE TEAMS THAT DID? Hell - we can look at the WCF/ECF finalists from all those years and I bet there still wouldn't be more than a minute amount of White Power Forwards starting or playing significant minutes on those teams - The Suns never had one in the Barkley Era, The Rockets didn't, the Sonics didn't, the Heat didn't, The Pacers didn't, The Jazz didn't, the Blazers didn't.

We are in this current era - where athleticism is king. Bottom line - you give me players from a different era of basketball and if we were still playing in that Era - great, you'd have a point. But we won't, so you don't.

 

[Kolo]

Based on cheesebeef's logic, I'll be ticked if the Suns draft a Samoan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Over-exaggertaion - do I really need to pull up that entire thread pimping the Susage King? Or people freaking out when we traded dog-crap(you know - Casey - the worst "pure shooter" of all time and two white stiffs) for JJ?

You're missing a basic question: Were people on this board excited about those players because they were white, or because they were Suns? My guess is that it's the latter. (For the record, I never thought anything of Vroman, and although occasionally Jacobsen made a nice impression on me, I was never that impressed with him.)

I think if you wanted to ask the question of why the Suns tend to take white players to fill out their bench, that might be interesting. Joe Mama made the same point. But once they put on the uniform, most people on this board are going to fall in love with them, no matter how they look.

that could be.

 

[myrondizzo]

nice way to make up an argument because, well, you have no answer to mine. Where did I say I was looking for a superstar? I just don't wnat a big white stiff because they are useless when trying to win a title - excuse me for wanting to win a title.

well ithought that id bring up this isde of the aguement since you refuse to answer my other questions. are trying to base you draft picks on what people have done in the past but just as you said the game has changed. so why wait for something to work for someone else before we try something new. No team currently in the finals has on there there roster at power foward drafted straight from cypress creek high school . So does that mean we should cut our losses and trade amare off for some euro? and that is just as logical as everyone of your posts have been.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Based on cheesebeef's logic, I'll be ticked if the Suns draft a Samoan.

why? Have they been shown to consistently be failures in the NBA and in the last 15 years NEVER contribute to a team that has a realistic shot at a title?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

OH, so you are telling me that although I watched every game of the San Antonio vs. Sonics playoffs I never saw Collision play? I see.

So in your opinion any player that is drafted highly in the 1st round if they don't have a solid first season they are a NBA failure. Do you know how crazy that sounds. Collison averaged about 8 points a game and 5 rebounds per game playing 19 minutes a game in the playoffs.

So does that mean the the Clippers should give up on Shaun Livingston who was their first round pick last year and averaged around 7 points per game and played 27 minutes a game.

Your argument holds NO water whatsoever.

Do you read anything I said? There's a vast difference between Collison and players such as Livingston (and guys like Darko, Al Jefferson, etc) called experience. Collison's going to be 25 when next season starts and isn't as good as Radmanovic and Rashard Lewis and probably equal to Fortson. Tell me how great this lottery pick is going to be considering he is roadblocked on a fluke team like Seattle.

And the only reason he got that time in the playoffs was because Radmanovic and Rashard Lewis were injured.

 

[Kolo]

why? Have they been shown to consistently be failures in the NBA and in the last 15 years NEVER contribute to a team that has a realistic shot at a title?

Name one Samoan who's helped his team win an NBA championship in the last 15 years.

 

[Mulli]

Rony Seikali (sp?) Arvydas Sabonis?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Cheese you are going off on nothing. I agree that athleticism is a very large part of the game now. It is needed to be a big time player in the NBA.

It isn't needed to be an athletic black player to be a star. Now, are most of the top not athletic players black? Sure thing, but that doesn't mean that a white athletic player could do the same thing.


Of course, this guy will not be a star, so who cares?

 

[Cheesebeef]

so why wait for something to work for someone else before we try something new. No team currently in the finals has on there there roster at power foward drafted straight from cypress creek high school . So does that mean we should cut our losses and trade amare off for some euro? and that is just as logical as everyone of your posts have been.

One - drafting a big white guy ISN'T SOMETHING NEW - we have been doing it or trading for them for years and guess what - it hasn't worked.How you can say doing what the Suns have done for years - drafting and bringing in big white stiffs is SOMETHING NEW is beyond me.

your second point is ********. I'm talking about a player type that has consistently failed in the NBA while you're ridiculous comparison is about something that hasn't happened yet - while having nothing to do with the type of player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Name one Samoan who's helped his team win an NBA championship in the last 15 years.

are there even any Samoan's that are in the league?

 

[myrondizzo]

I'm talking about a player type that has consistently failed in the NBA while you're ridiculous comparison is about something that hasn't happened yet - while having nothing to do with the type of player.

no we are talking about a player youve never watch play.

 

[Chaplin]

Collison's a 24 years old former lottery pick who averages 17 minutes and 5 points and 4 rebounds a game. Sorry but after spending four years at KU, he should be more ready than that seeing in that he's already entering the prime of his career.

I think that was a poor example because he was a rookie on a team that was actually pretty good--rookies (at least he was playing in his rookie year since he was injured) on winning teams rarely do much--he was thrust into a bigger role in the playoffs because of injuries and played pretty well--he most certainly will have improved numbers next year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese you are going off on nothing. I agree that athleticism is a very large part of the game now. It is needed to be a big time player in the NBA.

It isn't needed to be an athletic black player to be a star.

I'm not saying you need to be - but the odds are HEAVILY stacked against a White PF being any kind of difference maker - especially on the defensive end - which is where we need the most help. I don't expect the #21 pick to be a star, but I expect him to be a valuable role player on this club and since I've never seen a white stiff as a valuable role player on any team worth a lick - I don't wnat to draft him. That's all.

 

[myrondizzo]

name one power player in the past 15 years that has lead his team to the title.

 

[Kolo]

are there even any Samoan's that are in the league?

My point exactly. They must all suck at basketball, so why bother ever drafting one?

 

[JS22]

This thread makes me want to:

Who cares if he's white? If he can play...really, who cares?

 

[Kolo]

name one power player in the past 15 years that has lead his team to the title.

Bill Wennington.