Is Kyler Murray the answer at QB for next year and beyond?

[Yuma]

I didn’t. I called for Warner to be QB1 as early as 2007 & that Rosen should be discarded in order to draft Murray. Murray was better than Rosen while he was still at OU. There’s no one at the college level better than Murray.

Murray is still better than those two. Even if you hate Murray, you have to admit he's better than the other guys.

 

[PACardsFan]

Long-term? Guaranteed? So if we keep him 3 years, what kind of progress do we have by then?

If MOJG are successful in putting weapons around Murray, building depth, and creating the player culture they talk about, then we will have sustainable success. That’s exactly the plan, and exactly why this year was strictly an evaluation year. Eating a $hit sandwich this year wasn’t fun, but a byproduct of the process.

 

[netsnjkidd]

I feel like every time someone criticizes Kyler someone else excuses him and says to give him just one more shot. I don't want a QB who still needs to put it together heading into year 6.

I get it Understandable. Ima give him an offseason to learn a real nfl offense under real nfl coaches to see if he can be the guy.

 

[Chopper0080]

I actually like Drake Maye a lot, but he will get done a disservice if we draft him. Coming into a very talent-deficient team expecting to carry this piss-poor franchise from day one. Then, the fanbase will start questioning him “is he good enough?” after he overachieves until we run into a team with much more talent & firepower than us. Now, we’re stuck because we’re not bad enough to draft a blue-chip talent or good enough to be a real contender. I don’t expect Monti have generational drafts because organizations themselves don’t expect to have generational drafts.

Then, I would have to read @Chopper0080 talk about rookie QB contract when in reality that’s just some BS that talking heads have fed you for the most part. That has only worked for teams that already had solid/good talent in place before the QB’s arrival. GMs are going to miss on big FA signings because that’s just the way it is.

I seen the dude above with the massive wall of text mention the Chiefs/Mahomes/Alex Smith as an example. If only it were that easy & we already had a good supporting cast being perennial playoff contenders. Drake Maye isn’t coming to that. He’s coming to basically the opposite. That example is not a good one. At all.


I don’t care if Kyler isn’t the guy, the guy, halfway the guy, the guy on the street, etc, we need talent across the board. I try not to fall in love with prospects, but we arguably have one of the best WR prospects staring right in our face. A cornerstone. Get him. Build the team first before getting the next QB.


Merry damn Christmas.

So, saving 35 mil per year on a QB is a fictional benefit that doesn't actually matter when it comes to adding talent to a roster? This is an interesting flat earth level of argument.

I mean, I get that no path is fool proof, but to argue that the concept that 35 mil can go a long ways to improving a roster is a myth is silly. It is like arguing 1st round picks aren't valuable because some of them bust. Of course it is up to the franchise to max the most of cap space or draft pick.

I also have to say it is an odd argument to state the front office will be able to add top talent WITH Kyler on the roster as long as they draft MHJ (a QB dependent player) but somehow they can't add top talent with a rookie QB and 35 mil instead of MHJ.

Again, both paths have pitfalls. Both plans depend on competency from a historically incompetent franchise. It is just arrogant to believe to state that drafting a QB in the top 5 is a significantly worse plan than hoping to acquire one in the future somehow after you have acquired a stockpile of talent. There are as many examples of drafting in the top 5 working as the mystery QB of the future. You have a preference, and that is ok. It just doesn't invalidate the opposing preference.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Long-term? Guaranteed? So if we keep him 3 years, what kind of progress do we have by then?

I'm confident that if we:

1. Improve our Oline some from what it is now,
2. Add one top 10 NFL receiver
3. And also add another top 30 NFL receiver

The offense will be good enough to win 12 games.

 

[Chopper0080]

Okay. Is there a franchise QB available in the upcoming draft?

This is the best argument for both sides of the keep Kyler Murray in 2024 argument IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

I guarantee you were keeping Murray, long term.

If we were really trying to win games, they'd be running K1 more. Do you see how effortlessly he slices through a defense for ten or fifiteen yards? It's not even fair!

It's like the going for two thing. We convert about 10% of those tries, yet RG goes for them with even the slightest excuse.

Why? Because we're definitley holding back at this point.

The plan is that we're going to add some top-shelf WR talent, improve the Oline some (maybe RB too), and then unleash chaos on on NFL defenses in 2024.

So if he doesn’t unleash chaos on NFL defenses in 2024 (say, 4500 yards combined rushing and receiving and top 8 NFL offense) you’ll agree it’s time to go?

 

[kerouac9]

3. And also add another top 30 NFL receiver

That’s the trick, isn’t it? Some teams have two top 30 receivers already. Others have one or none.

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm confident that if we:

1. Improve our Oline some from what it is now,
2. Add one top 10 NFL receiver
3. And also add another top 30 NFL receiver

The offense will be good enough to win 12 games.

Hypothetically, yes. If they use the draft and free agency wisely to further enhance the roster.
Go out and get a guy like Gabe Davis and adding MHJ and our receiving room would be a 100% improvement.
I’ve read Brown is going to get about a 12m 1 year contract.
Davi’s will cost a little more and we’re probably looking at 4 years.

 

[DVontel]

So, saving 35 mil per year on a QB is a fictional benefit that doesn't actually matter when it comes to adding talent to a roster? This is an interesting flat earth level of argument.

When I continue to see it not actually benefiting teams with awful talent that QBs walk into, call it what you want.

I also have to say it is an odd argument to state the front office will be able to add top talent WITH Kyler on the roster as long as they draft MHJ (a QB dependent player) but somehow they can't add top talent with a rookie QB and 35 mil instead of MHJ.

They most likely won’t be adding a true blue chipper/cornerstone player on the level of a MHJ.

There are as many examples of drafting in the top 5 working as the mystery QB of the future.

Give me all of these examples of it actually working. Closest you’ll be is Burrow & if you want to count on Maye getting injured & putting us in position to draft a generational WR, then be my guess. Give me examples of the QBs that have won meaningful games since that’s you harp on about Kyler not doing.


We literally did with Kyler/Bosa in 2019, now you wanna do it all over again?

It just doesn't invalidate the opposing preference.

Look at what’s on MNF right now. Look at where their starting QBs got picked. Look at what their teams’ were before they got picked. It might not invalidate it, but it damn sure puts a big dent in it.



Can’t wait until we have this same conversation when it comes to Maye/Caleb in 2028.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Murray is still better than those two. Even if you hate Murray, you have to admit he's better than the other guys.

Over the last 24 months, Kyler has been one of the worst QBs in all of football. There’s no evidence that this Kyler Murray is better than any prospect coming out.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

So if he doesn’t unleash chaos on NFL defenses in 2024 (say, 4500 yards combined rushing and receiving and top 8 NFL offense) you’ll agree it’s time to go?

I mean, if the front office competently rebuilds the WR room, then sure, I think we should expect numbers something like that from K1. Absolutley.

Murray looks 97% as fast as he did his first day in the NFL. We should 100% be calling designed QB runs six to eight times a game. 100%.

You add competent #1 #2 and #3 WRs to McBride, Conner, and an aggresive QB run game, and then yes, we'll terrorize NFL defenses.

And I'm willing to stipulate to Hollywood being a competent #2, but not to Moore or Wilson being a #3.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I mean other than jimmy g throwing twice the interceptions . . .

 

[kerouac9]

I mean, if the front office competently rebuilds the WR room, then sure, I think we should expect numbers something like that from K1. Absolutley.

Murray looks 97% as fast as he did his day in the NFL. We should 100% be calling designed QB runs six to eight times a game. 100%.

You add competent #1 #2 and #3 WRs to McBride, Conner, and an aggresive QB run game, and then yes, we'll terrorize NFL defenses.

And I'm willing to stipulate to Hollywood being a competent #2, but not to Moore or Wilson being a #3.

Classic. Kyler cannot fail; he can only be failed. If Kyler can’t produce it’s because his WRs are failures.

Michael Wilson looked like a perfectly cromulent NFl wideout with Josh Dobbs running the show.

Funny

 

[Crimson Warrior]

That’s the trick, isn’t it? Some teams have two top 30 receivers already. Others have one or none.

It's asking quite a bit, I agree.

Especially considering our situation on defense!

 

[slanidrac16]

I mean, if the front office competently rebuilds the WR room, then sure, I think we should expect numbers something like that from K1. Absolutley.

Murray looks 97% as fast as he did his day in the NFL. We should 100% be calling designed QB runs six to eight times a game. 100%.

You add competent #1 #2 and #3 WRs to McBride, Conner, and an aggresive QB run game, and then yes, we'll terrorize NFL defenses.

And I'm willing to stipulate to Hollywood being a competent #2, but not to Moore or Wilson being a #3.

No to Brown. We need bigger targets.

 

[Yuma]

So, saving 35 mil per year on a QB is a fictional benefit that doesn't actually matter when it comes to adding talent to a roster? This is an interesting flat earth level of argument.

I mean, I get that no path is fool proof, but to argue that the concept that 35 mil can go a long ways to improving a roster is a myth is silly. It is like arguing 1st round picks aren't valuable because some of them bust. Of course it is up to the franchise to max the most of cap space or draft pick.

I also have to say it is an odd argument to state the front office will be able to add top talent WITH Kyler on the roster as long as they draft MHJ (a QB dependent player) but somehow they can't add top talent with a rookie QB and 35 mil instead of MHJ.

Again, both paths have pitfalls. Both plans depend on competency from a historically incompetent franchise. It is just arrogant to believe to state that drafting a QB in the top 5 is a significantly worse plan than hoping to acquire one in the future somehow after you have acquired a stockpile of talent. There are as many examples of drafting in the top 5 working as the mystery QB of the future. You have a preference, and that is ok. It just doesn't invalidate the opposing preference.

My whole things is HOW are you going to get that $35 mil? If we don't want Murray at $35 mil and we drafted him, who will?

 

[Chopper0080]

When I continue to see it not actually benefiting teams with awful talent that QBs walk into, call it what you want.

They most likely won’t be adding a true blue chipper/cornerstone player on the level of a MHJ.

Give me all of these examples of it actually working. Closest you’ll be is Burrow & if you want to count on Maye getting injured & putting us in position to draft a generational WR, then be my guess. Give me examples of the QBs that have won meaningful games since that’s you harp on about Kyler not doing.


We literally did with Kyler/Bosa in 2019, now you wanna do it all over again?

Look at what’s on MNF right now. Look at where their starting QBs got picked. Look at what their teams’ were before they got picked. It might not invalidate it, but it damn sure puts a big dent in it.



Can’t wait until we have this same conversation when it comes to Maye/Caleb in 2028.

It kind of depends on what you consider success. Stroud has been successful but it is early. Lawrence has been successful. Burrow and Tua were successful. Wilson and Trey Lance, no. Kyler? Baker and Darnold..no. Mitch...no. Goff...yes. Wentz...no. Winston, Mariota, Bortles...no. Luck...yes. RGIII...no. Cam...yes. It isn't a huge sample size TBH. The same goes for Pickett, Ridder, Zappe, Fields, Mac JOnes and Howell vs Prescott, Hurts, Mahomes, Davis Webb, and Lamar. Larger sample size for sure which means more success but also more failure.

Ultimately, mostly bad franchises with bad HCs and bad GMs pick in the top 5. It makes sense they can't put a roster around a top 5 QB because they aren't good at coaching or building rosters. The issue is this normally identified after the fact and not when it is happening. If Monti is good, he shouldn't have an issue building a roster around Kyler or around a rookie. If Gannon is good, he will be able to win games with a rookie or with a bottom 16 vet. See the Colts this year.

I think AZ will venture down your preferred road. The only issue I have with it is I dislike watching Kyler play QB because he isn't very good and I don't have hope on him improving. I would rather watch a rookie struggle vs the BEars defense vs a 5 year vet getting paid 45 mil. But that is my personal preference. I also think Drake Maye is a good prospect which makes my preference more appealing.

I just think both options have merit but are also dependent on the competency of the GM and HC.

 

[Yuma]

Michael Wilson looked like a perfectly cromulent NFl wideout with Josh Dobbs running the show.

1. Cromulent is a word that appeared on The Simpsons in 1996 and means "acceptable" or "fine". It was a joke on the show, but it has since become a popular and versatile word in the language. Learn how it originated, how it is used, and why it is a candidate for future dictionary entry.

 

[Chopper0080]

My whole things is HOW are you going to get that $35 mil? If we don't want Murray at $35 mil and we drafted him, who will?

Neither MOnti or Gannon drafted Kyler. And their are desperate NFL teams who would be good with Kyler at 35 mil per year.

 

[kerouac9]

The only issue I have with it is I dislike watching Kyler play QB because he isn't very good and I don't have hope on him improving.

This is an important part. If you’re enjoying watching these past six weeks, then more power to you. I’m not really on board for another 17.

We’ll be the Atlanta Falcons.

 

[DVontel]

This is an important part. If you’re enjoying watching these past six weeks, then more power to you. I’m not really on board for another 17.

We’ll be the Atlanta Falcons.

But if we go the other route, we’ll be the Los Angeles Chargers.

 

[kerouac9]

But if we go the other route, we’ll be the Los Angeles Chargers.

With better GM and coaching? I’ll go for it

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Odds are there is at least one.

I’m at this point one thousand percent sure if we drafted Peyton Manning we’d have made him look like Ryan Leaf. The water just f——cking sucks on Hardy.

This is not a Kyler post by the way. Although it might be in few years.

 

[DVontel]

With better GM and coaching? I’ll go for it

You constantly step on the GM & coaching(I know you bait, but I’ll play along) lol