Is Kyler Murray the answer at QB for next year and beyond?

[slanidrac16]

I believe Kyler will be our Qb next year, however, would anybody be on board drafting a guy like McCarthy in the second round?

 

[BritCard]

We have reached the "Drew Lock is now better than Kyler" part of the time line.

 

[DVontel]

I believe Kyler will be our Qb next year, however, would anybody be on board drafting a guy like McCarthy in the second round?

No.

No wasting premium picks on QBs until the house is built first.

 

[slanidrac16]

No.

No wasting premium picks on QBs until the house is built first.

But would it be wasted? I don’t really follow college ball but the numbers point to a guy that is big and mobile with a strong arm. Accuracy seems to be an issue at times. Sounds a little like Josh Allen.
It would also be insurance should Kyler get hurt or turn out not to be the guy.
Having a Qb in the wings with an opportunity to learn the offense for a year wouldn’t hurt.
With the amount of injuries to starting qb’s I wouldn’t call it a wasted pick.
Unless you think Tune could be our next starting qb. I don’t.

 

[Harry]

I don’t like QBs in waiting behind franchise QBs. You either trust your guy or you don’t.

 

[kerouac9]

But would it be wasted? I don’t really follow college ball but the numbers point to a guy that is big and mobile with a strong arm. Accuracy seems to be an issue at times. Sounds a little like Josh Allen.
It would also be insurance should Kyler get hurt or turn out not to be the guy.
Having a Qb in the wings with an opportunity to learn the offense for a year wouldn’t hurt.
With the amount of injuries to starting qb’s I wouldn’t call it a wasted pick.
Unless you think Tune could be our next starting qb. I don’t.

Because using a second-round pick on a prospect that will provide almost no value in his first year (and maybe his second!) is a poor choice when the alternative is using your second round pick on a prospect that will provide some value immediately and you expect to improve.

Drafting developmental QBs in the second round is a concern for teams who win games.

 

[slanidrac16]

I don’t like QBs in waiting behind franchise QBs. You either trust your guy or you don’t.

Harry, What are your thoughts on McCarthy?

 

[cardpa]

In all likelihood Murray is going to be the QB in 2024. That said I expect the team will forgo a QB in the 2024 draft and run with Murray while using the higher draft picks in 2024 to build out the team. Unless I'm mistaken there are going to be some good QBs available in the 2025 draft so they can take one then.

This is from NFLdraftbuzz.com These four per this website seem to have the most polish on their overall game and you are looking for a more traditional pocket passer. Players like Shedeur Sanders, Jalen Milroe, and Cameron Ward all have been described as QBs who are more dual threats because of their ability to run however they are not as polished in the areas of progressions, reads, etc.

Drew Allar
6'-4" 242 lbs.

• Most of the time Allar is at ease mentally in the pocket, and he’s willing to stand in and absorb hits while making a throw.
• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Because he’s tall and broad-shouldered, he’s able to withstand big hits. Allar plays with a confident, gunslinger mentality and will test windows downfield.
• He shows very nice touch on deep balls, as well as the ability to anticipate windows and fit in tight throws with good velocity.
• He stands tall in the pocket and has the toughness and strong build to withstand contact when he throws.
• Sees the field very well when the play breaks down and occasionally changes plays at the line.
• He checks all the boxes from a physical standpoint. Allar has as much arm talent as anyone in this class and exhibits the ability to get zip on passes even when he’s off-balance.

Connor Weigman
6'-3"
215 lbs.

• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Flashes good accuracy to all levels of the field and has the arm strength to make every requisite NFL throw.
• Weigman has enough arm strength to throw the deep out as well.
• He has a quick release and shows good accuracy on shorter throws when on the move to either side.
• Very confident passer and shows good accuracy and feel when in rhythm. Showed better ball placement from past years and throws very catchable passes. Puts too much air in some of his throws and needs to show a lower trajectory on deep throws.
• He has a compact release and keeps his eyes up in the pocket. Weigman has enough speed and athleticism to threaten with his legs when plays break down.

Tyler Van Dyke
6'-4"
230 lbs.

• Surprisingly athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time
• Able to make all passes you need and has the live arm enabling him to fire frozen ropes from acute angles
• Fast processor and moves through his reads with confidence and speed. Able to look off the safety and beat the defense deep
• Flashes anticipation and placement on intermediate outs and the ability to lead receivers on deeper throws.
• Possesses an NFL arm. Gets the ball from one hash to the opposite sideline in a hurry. Has the zip to hit tight windows on short and intermediate throws.
• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Very confident passer and shows good accuracy and feel when in rhythm. Showed better ball placement from past years and throws very catchable passes.
• Big athlete with good height and stands tall in the pocket to survey. the field. Uses good technique, squaring his shoulders to the target and stepping into his throws.
• Good height and impressive build - prototypical for the position
• Has produced good numbers despite being surrounded by a subpar supporting talent.

Carson Beck
6'-4"
215 lbs.

• Highly-tuned pocket mechanics: connects eyes, shoulders, and feet for fluid and consistent pass delivery under varying game situations.
• Generates elite torque, giving the ball zip and ensuring it arrives with velocity even on deeper throws.
• Displays a natural pocket presence; instinctively feels pressure, adjusts on the fly to craft clean throwing lanes.
• Remarkable poise against the pass rush; Beck's unflappable demeanor under duress is a testament to his game maturity.
• Master of play-action under center; his ability to quickly swing his head and scan post-snap separates him from his peers.
• Ball placement is next-level; surgical on quick slants, with the touch to drop it in the bucket down the seam.
• Physically ideal for the pro game at 6-foot-4, 215 pounds, he's equipped with the arm to challenge all field areas.
• Quick thinker with an innate ability to cycle through reads; Beck's football IQ and instincts shine in high-pressure scenarios.
• His rhythm-based passing style keeps defenses guessing; displays superior short to intermediate accuracy, setting receivers up for yards after catch.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[TheCardFan]

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[Cbus cardsfan]

Like Harry and others said, your QB is either your guy or he isn’t. You don’t waste high draft picks on guys unless you’re looking to replace the starter.

Now, if you get lucky and get a guy like Brady or Purdy in the late rounds who turns out to be the guy, that’s different.

 

[ajcardfan]

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Question about all these stats you put up every day.

Look at that guy, and look at his bio on Twitter.

How exactly is he getting all this data on "separation by WR" and "QB throws to open windows"? Things themselves which are subjective. Is he coach or scout level and knows what he's looking at? You could only do this with all 22 film of every single NFL game. The amount of time to eyeball it would be enormous.

Or, is he compiling this data from somewhere else?

 

[ajcardfan]

Like Harry and others said, your QB is either your guy or he isn’t. You don’t waste high draft picks on guys unless you’re looking to replace the starter.

Now, if you get lucky and get a guy like Brady or Purdy in the late rounds who turns out to be the guy, that’s different.

Clayton Tune?

 

[TheCardFan]

Question about all these stats you put up every day.

Damn good question. Here is another one.

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[TheCardFan]

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[Stout]

In all likelihood Murray is going to be the QB in 2024. That said I expect the team will forgo a QB in the 2024 draft and run with Murray while using the higher draft picks in 2024 to build out the team. Unless I'm mistaken there are going to be some good QBs available in the 2025 draft so they can take one then.

This is from NFLdraftbuzz.com These four per this website seem to have the most polish on their overall game and you are looking for a more traditional pocket passer. Players like Shedeur Sanders, Jalen Milroe, and Cameron Ward all have been described as QBs who are more dual threats because of their ability to run however they are not as polished in the areas of progressions, reads, etc.

Drew Allar
6'-4" 242 lbs.

• Most of the time Allar is at ease mentally in the pocket, and he’s willing to stand in and absorb hits while making a throw.
• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Because he’s tall and broad-shouldered, he’s able to withstand big hits. Allar plays with a confident, gunslinger mentality and will test windows downfield.
• He shows very nice touch on deep balls, as well as the ability to anticipate windows and fit in tight throws with good velocity.
• He stands tall in the pocket and has the toughness and strong build to withstand contact when he throws.
• Sees the field very well when the play breaks down and occasionally changes plays at the line.
• He checks all the boxes from a physical standpoint. Allar has as much arm talent as anyone in this class and exhibits the ability to get zip on passes even when he’s off-balance.

Connor Weigman
6'-3"
215 lbs.

• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Flashes good accuracy to all levels of the field and has the arm strength to make every requisite NFL throw.
• Weigman has enough arm strength to throw the deep out as well.
• He has a quick release and shows good accuracy on shorter throws when on the move to either side.
• Very confident passer and shows good accuracy and feel when in rhythm. Showed better ball placement from past years and throws very catchable passes. Puts too much air in some of his throws and needs to show a lower trajectory on deep throws.
• He has a compact release and keeps his eyes up in the pocket. Weigman has enough speed and athleticism to threaten with his legs when plays break down.

Tyler Van Dyke
6'-4"
230 lbs.

• Surprisingly athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time
• Able to make all passes you need and has the live arm enabling him to fire frozen ropes from acute angles
• Fast processor and moves through his reads with confidence and speed. Able to look off the safety and beat the defense deep
• Flashes anticipation and placement on intermediate outs and the ability to lead receivers on deeper throws.
• Possesses an NFL arm. Gets the ball from one hash to the opposite sideline in a hurry. Has the zip to hit tight windows on short and intermediate throws.
• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Very confident passer and shows good accuracy and feel when in rhythm. Showed better ball placement from past years and throws very catchable passes.
• Big athlete with good height and stands tall in the pocket to survey. the field. Uses good technique, squaring his shoulders to the target and stepping into his throws.
• Good height and impressive build - prototypical for the position
• Has produced good numbers despite being surrounded by a subpar supporting talent.

Carson Beck
6'-4"
215 lbs.

• Highly-tuned pocket mechanics: connects eyes, shoulders, and feet for fluid and consistent pass delivery under varying game situations.
• Generates elite torque, giving the ball zip and ensuring it arrives with velocity even on deeper throws.
• Displays a natural pocket presence; instinctively feels pressure, adjusts on the fly to craft clean throwing lanes.
• Remarkable poise against the pass rush; Beck's unflappable demeanor under duress is a testament to his game maturity.
• Master of play-action under center; his ability to quickly swing his head and scan post-snap separates him from his peers.
• Ball placement is next-level; surgical on quick slants, with the touch to drop it in the bucket down the seam.
• Physically ideal for the pro game at 6-foot-4, 215 pounds, he's equipped with the arm to challenge all field areas.
• Quick thinker with an innate ability to cycle through reads; Beck's football IQ and instincts shine in high-pressure scenarios.
• His rhythm-based passing style keeps defenses guessing; displays superior short to intermediate accuracy, setting receivers up for yards after catch.

#1, we cannot guarantee we'll be in position to draft a top QB next year
#2, we cannot guarantee that Franklin won't have ruined Allar by then.

 

[daves]

As I've posited before, if the Cardinals trade down in 2024 and accumulate 2025 draft assets, it may be a sign that they're hedging on Murray, and leaving the option open to trade up for a top QB in the 2025 draft.

I could see them trading back and accumulating draft assets for the 2025 draft, and planning to assess Murray further in 2024 with a better supporting cast and a full offseason and season to work on what he needs to do better in Petzing's system, while still keeping the option open to move on from him next season or offseason, when the cap hit would be much easier to stomach, or to use another bounty of draft picks to keep giving him the support he needs for the 2025 season.

But if they don't trade Murray, and they push 2024 assets into 2025, I'd see that as a sign that they're still hedging bets to be able to replace Murray in 2025, and want to preserve 2025 and future draft assets to support a 2025 rookie QB.

 

[cardpa]

#1, we cannot guarantee we'll be in position to draft a top QB next year
#2, we cannot guarantee that Franklin won't have ruined Allar by then.

Agree, with #1 however there will probably be a team that is not QB needy you can trade with to grab one of the top guys. It's a roll of the dice. Nothing is guaranteed.
As for #2, I would say it's probably even money Franklin will destroy any chance Allar has of becoming a NFL QB.

 

[cardpa]

Kind of an interesting article. They ranked all of the QBs drafted in the last five years. Murray came in at #8.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n&cvid=fa572dacc7ed41ff910108c32de5b1ac&ei=11

8. Kyler Murray (Round 1, Pick 1, 2019): Concerns about his size and durability have proven correct, but he still possesses the ability to perplex and torment a defense. May not be the solution, but he’s the kind of QB who will do until the solution comes along.

 

[AZCB34]

Kind of an interesting article. They ranked all of the QBs drafted in the last five years. Murray came in at #8.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n&cvid=fa572dacc7ed41ff910108c32de5b1ac&ei=11

8. Kyler Murray (Round 1, Pick 1, 2019): Concerns about his size and durability have proven correct, but he still possesses the ability to perplex and torment a defense. May not be the solution, but he’s the kind of QB who will do until the solution comes along.

Last sentence is really something. Basically the entire thread boiled into a single sentence

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kind of an interesting article. They ranked all of the QBs drafted in the last five years. Murray came in at #8.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n&cvid=fa572dacc7ed41ff910108c32de5b1ac&ei=11

8. Kyler Murray (Round 1, Pick 1, 2019): Concerns about his size and durability have proven correct, but he still possesses the ability to perplex and torment a defense. May not be the solution, but he’s the kind of QB who will do until the solution comes along.

My caveat is that I think Murray has been handled pretty poorly. I don't buy the rubbish that Kingsbury's wasn't working; I think Kingsbury didn't really mentor Kyler.

Murray isn't playing well, but I can't pretend that he has talent around him. A combo of Hollywood and Wilson just isn't NFL caliber.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Last sentence is really something. Basically the entire thread boiled into a single sentence

I think so. Finding a QB isn't exactly an easy task, so the Cardinals should just focus on building a strong supporting cast first.

 

[HoodieBets]

Last sentence is really something. Basically the entire thread boiled into a single sentence

Good thing for us we are in a position to potentially draft the solution. Passing on it may set the franchise back another head coach.

 

[daves]

Murray isn't playing well, but I can't pretend that he has talent around him. A combo of Hollywood and Wilson just isn't NFL caliber.

Lamar Jackson was league MVP in 2019 with Hollywood leading the WR corps with 584 yards and some guys named Willie Snead (339 yards) and Seth Roberts (271) filling out the WR corps. Of course, they had Mark Andrews and his 852 yards as well.

Murray has Hollywood, despite injuries on a pace for 697 yards, Wilson on pace for 565, and Moore on pace for 322, plus McBride on pace for 865 yards! Every one higher than the corresponding member of Jackson's receiving corps!

True, the Ravens had the #1 ranked rushing attack that year with 1955 yards from their non-QBs, while the Cardinals' #8 rushing attack (#3 in yards per attempt!) is on pace for "only" 1689 yards from non-QBs. And certainly the Ravens' OL was much better than the Cards' this year.

So while I agree that Hollywood and Wilson are NOT a good top WR pair, they're better than what Jackson had so I don't like using them to excuse Murray's poor play.

 

[DVontel]

Good thing for us we are in a position to potentially draft the solution. Passing on it may set the franchise back another head coach.

Are we really?