Jrue Holiday

[Chaplin]

OK. I get the salary being too high. I get that you don't believe a player his age will not improve much--though many do. But if he is the player that fits as he currently performs, the age is not an issue to me.

Makes no sense. Because when the team is able to compete for a championship (I say championship, and not playoffs), a 27-year-old player now will be past his prime then. How is that helpful for the future of this team?

 

[Raze]

Makes no sense. Because when the team is able to compete for a championship (I say championship, and not playoffs), a 27-year-old player now will be past his prime then. How is that helpful for the future of this team?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but Jason Kidd was ancient when he played for the Mavericks on their championship run. As long as the PG compliments the 2020 superstars in Booker, Bender, Chriss, Warren, and Jackson I'm ok with him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Makes no sense. Because when the team is able to compete for a championship (I say championship, and not playoffs), a 27-year-old player now will be past his prime then. How is that helpful for the future of this team?

31, 32 is still in a players prime, IMO. Usually see a drop off around 33.

That said, not crazy about getting Holiday to make us go from possibly 30 wins to 38. I think he keeps us running in mud moving forward.

 

[Raze]

OK. I get the salary being too high. I get that you don't believe a player his age will not improve much--though many do. But if he is the player that fits as he currently performs, the age is not an issue to me.

All that said, I prefer Dinwiddie. Age, salary, size, and defense.

I wonder if there's a sensible way to send Monroe over for Dinwiddie. Obviously we'd be giving up the expiring contract, but if the kid will play for us like he's playing for Brooklyn it'd be worth it. We'd have to take on more salary to make it work, like Lin's 2 years $12M/yr.

Still, it'd be smart to kick the tires on it.

 

[overseascardfan]

What is the age range for the current “time line”? Warren is the oldest core guy at 24. Is that the age range of guys they are looking to build with, I mean Bledsoe was 28 and Irving who they had a lot of interest this offseason for is 25.

 

[Russ Smith]

Jrue's a good solid player but he has a history of injuries too.He hasn't played more than 67 games in a season in his last 5 years.

Good player, excellent passer, defends well, I guess you're taking the chance that he stays healthy enough but he's only played a full season once and he's not sitting out games with minor injuries saving him for the playoffs like the Warriors and Cavs do, he's sitting out games because he physically can't play.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wonder if there's a sensible way to send Monroe over for Dinwiddie. Obviously we'd be giving up the expiring contract, but if the kid will play for us like he's playing for Brooklyn it'd be worth it. We'd have to take on more salary to make it work, like Lin's 2 years $12M/yr.

Still, it'd be smart to kick the tires on it.

I don't see it. There is too much of a difference in salaries, and I really would not want to take back more cap commitments. Brooklyn does not have even one PF on their roster (per ESPN designations). Alec Peters and a decent first round pick might get him here. They need PF's and picks.

 

[hcsilla]

You know, I've watched the Nets four times this season, and I was impressed by Dinwiddie each time. He in under contract for another year, and I am not sure as to what Brooklyn would want in return.

Yes, Dinwiddie plays surprisingly well, he became a competent PG out of nowhere. Last year he was just a shooter, now he is a distributor as well, tall, solid defender. The problem is only he is a great fit next to Russell, so I don't really see why the Nets would trade him.

 

[hcsilla]

Holiday is the one and only good perimeter player on the Pels roster and signing him to this contract was kind of a desperation move from NOP.

Trading him would reduce their PO chances, lower the probability of re-signing Cousins and keeping Davis.

 

[Errntknght]

Not much interested in Holiday for same reasons other people mentioned.

Dinwiddie, on the other hand, I'd love to get, if we could pry him loose.

There are some other young PGs that I'd be interested in - based on their stats; no observation except for Jones
Jerian Grant from Chi
Tyus Jones from Minn
Shabazz Napier from Portland

Tyler Ennis isn't really in the same class but I liked him when he was with us and he's probably available. Ast/TO of 2.9 and he's 6'3 or 6'4. No 3pt shot

 

[Superbone]

I like how all us fans just think we can go get the best players from other teams like Dinwiddie.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think the Suns are interested in a better PG just now (due to the lottery) unless they can trade for a PGOTF.

They appear content to let Ulis do his thing.

 

[Mainstreet]

I like how all us fans just think we can go get the best players from other teams like Dinwiddie.

The Suns do have lots of chips (draft picks) but I do not think they are going to give up a first round pick for Dinwiddie.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I like how all us fans just think we can go get the best players from other teams like Dinwiddie.

Brooklyn has Lin, Dinwiddie, and DAR. Thinking they might want to unload Dinwiddie for something they might need.

 

[Superbone]

Brooklyn has Lin, Dinwiddie, and DAR. Thinking they might want to unload Dinwiddie for something they might need.

I also wish the Bucks would have unloaded Brogdan on us.

 

[Errntknght]

I like how all us fans just think we can go get the best players from other teams like Dinwiddie.

I think Dinwiddie would be especially hard even though Bkn has Lin and Russell on their roster. But if Chicago, say, drafted Young or Doncic they might be willing to part with Jerian Grant - they're loaded with young PG's in addition to Kris Dunn - Kay Felder, David Nwaba, Arcidiacono, and Grant. (Zach LaVine and Cameron Payne are listed on their roster as PGs, as well.) I'd keep Grant ahead of Dunn but who know's what they'll do. They are playing Grant equal minutes so it's not like they don't know what they have.

McD ought to make a list of all the good, young PGs and be ready to pounce if someone has a roster squeeze during or after the draft. I'd be talking to Chi now - they have only Robin Lopez at C so they might be interested in Monroe or Monroe and a pick (other than ours). Maybe not, of course, since they are tanking very successfully as is.

Five others I'd keep an eye on:
Delon Wright Toronto
Fred Vanvleet Toronto
Raul Neto Utah
Yogi Ferrell Dallas
Quinn Cook GSW

 

[hcsilla]

Brooklyn has Lin, Dinwiddie, and DAR. Thinking they might want to unload Dinwiddie for something they might need.

Dinwiddie is (much) better and healthier than Lin, so they might want to unload Lin much earlier than Dinwiddie. Furthermore Russell and Dinwiddie is a nice backcourt and Dinwiddie is on a cheap contract next season.

 

[hcsilla]

The Suns do have lots of chips (draft picks) but I do not think they are going to give up a first round pick for Dinwiddie.

I would trade anyone on our roster for picks except Booker and maybe Jackson (and maybe Chriss if he keeps playing like he did in his last 5 games) but I would trade the MIL pick for Dinwiddie without even thinking twice.

However, I just don't see any reason why the Nets would do this deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would trade anyone on our roster for picks except Booker and maybe Jackson (and maybe Chriss if he keeps playing like he did in his last 5 games) but I would trade the MIL pick for Dinwiddie without even thinking twice.

However, I just don't see any reason why the Nets would do this deal.

Dinwiddie's name was brought up as a PG target. After doing some research on him, it is probably wishful thinking especially with Lin out for the season.

Also the Suns may wait until the offseason before pursuing a PG.

 

[BC867]

Yeah, I'm not a Jrue fan, but a guy being 27 should not be a 'hard no' for our interest, not even close.

Steve Nash was 30 when he returned to the Suns and that was before he became MVSteve.

 

[Hoop Head]

Steve Nash was 30 when he returned to the Suns and that was before he became MVSteve.

Nash was an oddity or an exception though. He returned and was given free reign and had back to back MVP seasons. Not many players see a rise in their production after they hit 30.

 

[Chaplin]

Steve Nash was 30 when he returned to the Suns and that was before he became MVSteve.

Different situations. We weren't a sub-22 rebuilding team at the time.

 

[Bufalay]

Different situations. We weren't a sub-22 rebuilding team at the time.

Seriously? Amare And Joe Johnson were 22 and 23. Marion was 25 and the suns were terrible the year before Nash came back.

 

[Hoop Head]

Different situations. We weren't a sub-22 rebuilding team at the time.

But we were though, compare the year before Nash signed to this year and there are a lot of similarities between the two. The Suns traded their best player who was a PG for cap relief and assets, picks and expiring contracts for Marbury and Bledsoe. JJ was young and showed potential to be a long term solution at SG going forward, the Suns screwed up giving him an extension before Nash was signed. This offseason they need to extend Booker who will be the SG for the foreseeable future. They had a raw big with a lot of talent and freakish athleticism in Stoudemire but they didn't have a player who could set him up offensively to get the most out of him. Now they have Chriss who is a freakish athlete but doesn't have anyone to set him offensively. I'm not saying Chriss is as good as Amare but they do share similar skillsets. They had a solid wing player in Marion who was a really good 3rd option but not a very good 2nd option, Warren is a good 2nd option but ideally he'd be the 3rd option for the Suns behind another star. They're the only young pieces that are locked in longterm. They had a rookie who had potential on the defensive end because of his size and how hard he played but his position and role was a bit of a question mark in Barbosa. Jackson fits that description as well but he's more refined defensively but like Barbosa he lacks a position or role on the team right now. JJ has played SG, SF, and PF for the Suns this year, Barbosa was a SG in a PG body. Both played too quick and were reckless offensively. Both seasons they had an assistant who had a good history coaching outside of the US & NBA but little NBA experience as a head coach, D'Antoni and Triano. They each took over for coaches that had long career's as backup PG's in the NBA but their skill on the court was about the same as their coaching ability, not very good in Frank Johnson and Earl Watson.

They went 29-53 and had a roster of young players with little identity and hoped to add a solid veteran to steer the ship. I don't think that's the plan for them this offseason but if there is a player who is a good fit then they'll have the money to try and bring them in. If they don't see a player that fits who they like they could trade the pick for a veteran this summer.

In Nash's first year here Amare and Barbosa were 22, Joe Johnson was 23, Quentin Richardson was 24, and Marion was 26. The Suns only played 7-8 players that first year, two of the players they had rounding out their rotations were Steven Hunter and Casey Jacobson who were only 23. They managed to flip Jacobson for Jim Jackson which was a good move. The Suns haven't done anything like that now but they have Chandler playing the veteran mentor sort of role like Jackson and Nash had to play then. The core was clearly Amare, Marion, Barbosa, and JJ before Nash signed. They also added Quentin Richardson that offseason who was just 24. They planned on keeping him but they ended up trading him for KT because they ended up contending instead of rebuilding.

Compare that to Booker who will be 22 next year, Warren will be 25, Josh Jackson, Chriss, and Bender will be 21 next season. So they're slightly younger but the players will have had virtually the same amount of experience in the NBA. When Nash was resigned the young players in the league were a bit older, most stayed in college more than just 1 year. I know some came straight from High School at 18 but there weren't that many HS to Pro players at that point, most team's had 1 of those players but that's it.

Comparing the rotation players from Nash's first year though, they have similar NBA experience compared to how the Suns will look next season....

Marion was in his 6th season while Len will enter his 6th season (if he's resigned).
Joe Johnson was in his 4th year and Booker will be in his 4th year.
Barbosa had 1 full season in the league and Josh Jackson will have 1 year experience.
Quentin Richardson was in his 5th year and TJ Warren will be in his 5th year.
Casey Jacobson was in his 3rd year and Dragan Bender will be in his 3rd year.
Steven Hunter was in his 4th year and Marquise Chriss will be in his 3rd.

Here is a link to the 2004-05 roster, which was Nash's first year back. Here is one for the 2003-04 season before he was resigned.

 

[Chaplin]

But we were though, compare the year before Nash signed to this year and there are a lot of similarities between the two. The Suns traded their best player who was a PG for cap relief and assets, picks and expiring contracts for Marbury and Bledsoe. JJ was young and showed potential to be a long term solution at SG going forward, the Suns screwed up giving him an extension before Nash was signed. This offseason they need to extend Booker who will be the SG for the foreseeable future. They had a raw big with a lot of talent and freakish athleticism in Stoudemire but they didn't have a player who could set him up offensively to get the most out of him. Now they have Chriss who is a freakish athlete but doesn't have anyone to set him offensively. I'm not saying Chriss is as good as Amare but they do share similar skillsets. They had a solid wing player in Marion who was a really good 3rd option but not a very good 2nd option, Warren is a good 2nd option but ideally he'd be the 3rd option for the Suns behind another star. They're the only young pieces that are locked in longterm. They had a rookie who had potential on the defensive end because of his size and how hard he played but his position and role was a bit of a question mark in Barbosa. Jackson fits that description as well but he's more refined defensively but like Barbosa he lacks a position or role on the team right now. JJ has played SG, SF, and PF for the Suns this year, Barbosa was a SG in a PG body. Both played too quick and were reckless offensively. Both seasons they had an assistant who had a good history coaching outside of the US & NBA but little NBA experience as a head coach, D'Antoni and Triano. They each took over for coaches that had long career's as backup PG's in the NBA but their skill on the court was about the same as their coaching ability, not very good in Frank Johnson and Earl Watson.

They went 29-53 and had a roster of young players with little identity and hoped to add a solid veteran to steer the ship. I don't think that's the plan for them this offseason but if there is a player who is a good fit then they'll have the money to try and bring them in. If they don't see a player that fits who they like they could trade the pick for a veteran this summer.

In Nash's first year here Amare and Barbosa were 22, Joe Johnson was 23, Quentin Richardson was 24, and Marion was 26. The Suns only played 7-8 players that first year, two of the players they had rounding out their rotations were Steven Hunter and Casey Jacobson who were only 23. They managed to flip Jacobson for Jim Jackson which was a good move. The Suns haven't done anything like that now but they have Chandler playing the veteran mentor sort of role like Jackson and Nash had to play then. The core was clearly Amare, Marion, Barbosa, and JJ before Nash signed. They also added Quentin Richardson that offseason who was just 24. They planned on keeping him but they ended up trading him for KT because they ended up contending instead of rebuilding.

Compare that to Booker who will be 22 next year, Warren will be 25, Josh Jackson, Chriss, and Bender will be 21 next season. So they're slightly younger but the players will have had virtually the same amount of experience in the NBA. When Nash was resigned the young players in the league were a bit older, most stayed in college more than just 1 year. I know some came straight from High School at 18 but there weren't that many HS to Pro players at that point, most team's had 1 of those players but that's it.

Comparing the rotation players from Nash's first year though, they have similar NBA experience compared to how the Suns will look next season....

Marion was in his 6th season while Len will enter his 6th season (if he's resigned).
Joe Johnson was in his 4th year and Booker will be in his 4th year.
Barbosa had 1 full season in the league and Josh Jackson will have 1 year experience.
Quentin Richardson was in his 5th year and TJ Warren will be in his 5th year.
Casey Jacobson was in his 3rd year and Dragan Bender will be in his 3rd year.
Steven Hunter was in his 4th year and Marquise Chriss will be in his 3rd.

Here is a link to the 2004-05 roster, which was Nash's first year back. Here is one for the 2003-04 season before he was resigned.

Fine, I'm wrong you're all right, we should by all means get a point guard who's 27 or older. Because, you know, Jrue Holiday and Steve Nash are infinitely comparable.

I mean, you're comparing Shawn Marion to Alex Len, Bender to Casey Jacobson and Barbosa to Josh Jackson. Not to mention Jay Triano to Mike D'Antoni.