Key Phrase in Urban's Latest Propaganda Piece

[Duckjake]

And you knew they were being overpaid when the contracts were written. Right. Ain't hindsight wonderful.

But I'm just a guy on a message board. They were professionals who work 52 weeks a year at the job. They should have known.

 

[Dayman]

for everyone.

Thanks for fighting the nightman, dayman.

No problem!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Cheesebeef]

And you knew they were being overpaid when the contracts were written. Right. Ain't hindsight wonderful.

People were destroying the contracts for Bradley, Kolb, Snyder and Colledge when they signed them. That wasn't hindsight... It was foresight or what was likely labeled "negative" at the time.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Because we are only a few years away from our playoff and super bowl years, I think we are still putting to much weight on those couple years and forgetting who we are. We are the Cardinals, not the Packers or Patriots or even the Saints. We have always been the door mats doing the unexplainable when it comes to FAs and the draft. In every sport there is a door mat, whether it be the Clippers in BB, or the Astros in BB, or the Cards in FB. It was nice to have a couple year break from the frustration and disillusionment, but we are who we are. In a couple more years we will have forgotten more and more those playoff wins. Right now they are clouding our thinking and true image of we are.

 

[40yearfan]

You as usual just don't get it. A well run NFL team does not go 5-11 or 4-12 for half of the 25 years they've been in a city and have to completely rebuild their roster every 3 years because of the bad decisions they made.

Their planning for the future in 2009 really was well done wasn't it. 18-30 and a team so bad last season they had to rebuild it.

One thing you've never understood is that these guys aren't the rocket scientists you make them out to be. That's why a quarter of the coaches in the NFL get fired nearly every year and they miss on half the guys they draft or sign as Free Agents.

I guess it is easy for the Cards to plan for any eventuality when the only outcome is double digit losses.

When all else fails and you have no answer for common sense, you fall back on the won/lost record. You don't understand just how hard it is to change decades of incompetence and instill a winning attitude in an organization. The Cardinals have been making the proper moves, but they still aren't getting the expected results. Aside from hindsight, what else can you expect this organization to do. They are trying, spending money and making big time moves. Things don't always work out as planned. If it was so easy, you would have 32 NFL teams fighting for a SB bearth instead of the half dozen or so every year.

You don't want to give this team credit for anything. I give them an A for effort. After watching them flounder for all those years with Boone doing the drafting and watching all their good players depart for other teams, it is obvious this team is making a herculean effort to change and become relevant in the NFL. They are being run like an NFL team should be run and they will eventually find the right path. I plan on staying positive until they reach that level.

 

[40yearfan]

People were destroying the contracts for Bradley, Kolb, Snyder and Colledge when they signed them. That wasn't hindsight... It was foresight or what was likely labeled "negative" at the time.

So you knew for sure that these moves wouldn't work out at the time they were made? Either you have a time machine or you are on a first name basis with God. Knowing you as well as I do, I would have to assume it's a time machine.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I give them an A for effort.

Color me shocked! Sadly, some of us would prefer results.

 

[Duckjake]

When all else fails and you have no answer for common sense, you fall back on the won/lost record. You don't understand just how hard it is to change decades of incompetence and instill a winning attitude in an organization. The Cardinals have been making the proper moves, but they still aren't getting the expected results. Aside from hindsight, what else can you expect this organization to do. They are trying, spending money and making big time moves. Things don't always work out as planned. If it was so easy, you would have 32 NFL teams fighting for a SB bearth instead of the half dozen or so every year.

You don't want to give this team credit for anything. I give them an A for effort. After watching them flounder for all those years with Boone doing the drafting and watching all their good players depart for other teams, it is obvious this team is making a herculean effort to change and become relevant in the NFL. They are being run like an NFL team should be run and they will eventually find the right path. I plan on staying positive until they reach that level.

And as usual you ignore the results. All the great planning in the world wouldn't help an electrical contractor if the bosses kept hiring guys who put the wiring in backwards.

 

[kerouac9]

I think it's like MB said. Everyone has input and they come to a Cardinal decision as to what is best for the team. I believe Arians has as much input as any of the other FO personnel and that when push comes to shove, he gets the last word on player personnel. There is no way to hold him responsible for a won/loss record if you are picking all his players for him.

There you go talking in absolutes again. Did you read my post? Keim handles the draft and Arians handles the FA's. Keim does the contracts and makes the final decisions when there is a disagreement between the parties. Not hard to understand and the way a good business works.

And I get accused of speaking out of both sides of my mouth. At least I'm consistent.

 

[Heucrazy]

And I get accused of speaking out of both sides of my mouth. At least I'm consistent.

Oh c'mon I bet you said something positive about the Cards....once.

 

[Duckjake]

all those years with Boone doing the drafting

That was 30-40 years ago.

But that guy was so bad you can't even google him.

He doesn't even have a page on Wikipedia. All you can find are references to him in a paragraph in articles about the Cardinals.

Bidwill's front office and notably personnel honcho George Boone have been derided in recent years for such No. 1 picks as quarterback Steve Pisarkiewicz from the University of Missouri, kicker Steve Little, also-ran linebacker Anthony Bell, wide receiver Clyde Duncan--who never caught a pass--and quarterback Kelly Stouffer, who has refused to sign.

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-03-16/sports/sp-971_1_chicago-cardinals

Another fun article from 1987

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...LQfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NdcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1519,7754007

 

[kerouac9]

Oh c'mon I bet you said something positive about the Cards....once.

Those posts were made 32 minutes apart. I think that even I am capable of holding a consistent position on an actual either/or proposition for the time it takes to cook a chicken breast.

 

[ndhillst]

I really don't understand why people think decision making is an either/or proposition. Isn't it possible they all work together to make decisions and Keim acts as the tie breaker if they can't agree? The staff is larger than just Keim and Arians, after all.

During free agency, the team that created the FA board had Keim, Arians, Licht, and Disner all involved in the decision making process, and my guess is that the list of possible candidates was generated with additional input from other sources (scouts, members of the coaching staff, etc).

So for me, I don't see this as an either/or. Keim is, as the GM, ultimately responsible for the composition of the team - that comes with the title. So by definition, this will be the team he assembles. I just don't believe his is the only voice or opinion that matters.

I'd post the link to Urban's "by the board" article, but ya'll can find it on the Cardinals website.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When all else fails and you have no answer for common sense, you fall back on the won/lost record. You don't understand just how hard it is to change decades of incompetence and instill a winning attitude in an organization. The Cardinals have been making the proper moves, but they still aren't getting the expected results. Aside from hindsight, what else can you expect this organization to do. They are trying, spending money and making big time moves. Things don't always work out as planned. If it was so easy, you would have 32 NFL teams fighting for a SB bearth instead of the half dozen or so every year.

You don't want to give this team credit for anything. I give them an A for effort.

I thought we were talking about an NFL team, not some stupid kid in kindergarden.

 

[52brandon]

I've been saying for a while that Arians has little control over the makeup of this roster and the personnel moves being made by the front office. As much as the propaganda arm is a reflection of the operations within Hardy Drive, this seems to be the case.

Don't get to used to Bruce Arians and his Kangol hats; I don't expect him to be around long with the "weapons" he's being given by the front office. It won't be his fault.

Let's say that the team's offense improves slightly in 2013 and declines slightly on defense. We end up with the same record against a tough schedule. 5-11.

Next year we get a quarterback, but he struggles as rookies tend to do, especially against a strong division. 6-10.

Arians goes on the hot seat in 2015, the winter of the Cards will have 5 important pending free agents, including Patrick Peterson.

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/2015/arizona-cardinals/

I'm not gonna read into that phrase too much. Of course it's Keim's roster. He's the GM after all. But I'm sure Arians will have plenty input on it

 

[52brandon]

That was 30-40 years ago.

But that guy was so bad you can't even google him.

He doesn't even have a page on Wikipedia. All you can find are references to him in a paragraph in articles about the Cardinals.



http://articles.latimes.com/1988-03-16/sports/sp-971_1_chicago-cardinals

Another fun article from 1987

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...LQfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NdcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1519,7754007

wooooowwwww..... look at those mid-80s picks. They're all nobodies

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The GM should have control over player personnel while taking input from the HC.

I don't mind what Keim has done so far. He's rid the team of some bad contracts and signed some middling free agents, which is, and has been, the Cards MO in free agency. The good thing is he didn't sign these guys to 15-30 mill dollar deals like Graves would do.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

So you knew for sure that these moves wouldn't work out at the time they were made? Either you have a time machine or you are on a first name basis with God. Knowing you as well as I do, I would have to assume it's a time machine.

Anyone who watched any games Kolb played in Philly surely knew.

 

[cardpa]

Well I think we can all agree that Keim had nothing to do with the contracts of players signed in previous years. Now I would think he has a a lot to do with the contracts. I also think it would be a pretty safe bet to say the decisions to jettison players from the roster were made not only by Keim but also with input from Arians, Bowles and the rest of the staff. The reasons may have been varied but there were reasons for doing so. I find it hard to believe that when the team could not get Rhodes to sign an extension there wasn't a conversation with Bowles asking him if we let Rhodes go how confident are you that you can replace him based on what defense you will run and whom do you see in FA that can fill that role because drafting a safety early is not in the plans. If that conversation did not happen then this present group will fall like a house of cards.

As for the players signed in FA I believe it would be a safe bet to say the same people deciding who to dump were also involved in the decisions on who to sign. If you look around the NFL and see what other teams are doing with FA contracts you will see a lot of 1-2 year contract signings this year. It seems to be the trend for whatever reason.

Since I am more of an optimist than a pessimist I think Keim and Arians have some sort of long range plan and the signings this year out of FA are part of that with the idea that some of these signings will work out well and others will be a one and done deal. A guy like Mendenhall could be a good long term solution or toss him to the side like yesterdays garbage if it doesn't work out. In 2014 you have another draft and you look at picking up a RB. Williams who has contributed absolutely nothing to date is being considered again even though history frowns upon guys who are injury prone. Maybe he suddenly becomes healthy again and becomes the go to RB.

Living in PA I have gotten to see quite a bit of Mendenhall play and he is certainly not in the same league as the Petersons, and Fosters of the NFL however I can say with a lot of certainty is he showed the ability to do something Wells never showed and that is to get the 1 or 2 yds on 3rd down most of the time. That alone to me makes him a better back than Wells because it keeps drives alive. Wells could not do that on a consistent basis.

To me 2013 will be a transition year. I think we will see some wildly lopsided wins and some wildly lopsided losses. I do believe 7-9 wins is the most probable scenario this year. In the event the team signs Carson Palmer then I think that win total can climb to 8-10.

Many are saying we are several years away from competing for the top spot in the division. I can easily see a scenario where the division is very close. Despite the fact that SF and Sea are ahead of us in talent, they have to play each other which could easily result in a split and the Rams have given both those teams fits so all that really needs to happen is for the Cardinals to come up with a couple of games where they play lights out within the division and suddenly you have each team with 3-3 records within the division and now the games outside are more the determining factor. I think the division games are going to be real slugfests and hotly contested with most games coming down to the last possession.

A division title is not probable however its not impossible either. A wild card berth is not out of the question either. Of course I could be totally wrong and the team goes 3-13. What I do like is the anticipation of the coming season and waiting to see just what is going to happen. At the very least I am not going into a season already knowing before it starts that our QB situation sucks and our RB corps is decimated before the season even starts. Our draft selections (Floyd) made no sense whatsoever, and nothing was done to fix the Oline. I see it as a fresh start, a new beginning and hope for the future of the team. I will now put down the koolaid. I couldn't help it, the koolaid was my favorite flavor.

 

[az240zz]

I run this mamma jamma up in here. I write down everything I want each week from the grocery store because I am the freakin man yo. But I rarely get to decide which hotdogs we buy because she gets what evers on sale, and I usually aint even there. Most times I don't get everything on my list, and I often end up with some cheap ass Little Debbies when Entenmann's was written clear as day!!! But I run this mamma jamma all right...

I think this is the best post of this discussion

 

[bankybruce]

I think this is the best post of this discussion

You understood it? Was it about all the tacky knick nacks again?

 

[Duckjake]

Living in PA I have gotten to see quite a bit of Mendenhall play and he is certainly not in the same league as the Petersons, and Fosters of the NFL however I can say with a lot of certainty is he showed the ability to do something Wells never showed and that is to get the 1 or 2 yds on 3rd down most of the time. That alone to me makes him a better back than Wells because it keeps drives alive. Wells could not do that on a consistent basis.

Hard to do when you are getting hit in the backfield by as soon as you get the handoff. Edgerrin James was perfect for the Cardinals because his best talent was making the guy who was usually 3 yards deep in our backfield miss and turning a 2 yard loss into a 3 yard gain. Funny thing about Wells. He scored 10 TDs in 2011 none of them on runs of more than 7 yards. Mendenhall should do better because the offensive line blocking should be better with Grimm gone.

 

[Chopper0080]

So you knew for sure that these moves wouldn't work out at the time they were made? Either you have a time machine or you are on a first name basis with God. Knowing you as well as I do, I would have to assume it's a time machine.

Yes. I could have told you that contracts to Kolb, Bradley, Colledge and Snyder were bad at the time.

Kolb was a west coast QB with a limited history and coming off a year where he lost his job to injury. On top of that, Kolb was being signed to run a completely different style of offense than he was used to and his skillse were set for. The Cardinals did a good job trying to add a QB, but they made a stupid choice in giving him a contract that paid him a ton of money when there was little proof he was going to be successful.

Bradley was a 4-3 MLB who had some injury concerns and, again, was from a system where the DTs prtected him. We signed him to a position in a totally different scheme that no longer gave him that protection and forced him to take on offensive linemen. Also, similar to Kolb, we have him a large contract that compensated him as a top ILB when he had never proven himself as one.

Colledge and Synder were bth the worst players on their respective offensive lines. Even worse, this was pretty common knowledge. Colledge's intial contract wasn't terrible, but still was bad because it pushed his signing bonus over 5 years which made it more difficult to cut him. What made this worse was the Cards restructed his contract last offseason to make it even more difficult to cut him and paid him in 2013 maong the elite OGs in the game. Snyder's contract was equally poor as it gave him 5 mil, but spread it out over 5 years. So, despite having a reasonable base salary, the inability to get out of the contract because of the bonus being spread out over 5 years was dumb.

It doesn't take a time machine to see the flaw in signing poor players, who are not scheme fits, to long terms contracts that are cap costly to get out of. Competent GMs should know this if I do.

 

[kerouac9]

Yes. I could have told you that contracts to Kolb, Bradley, Colledge and Snyder were bad at the time.

To be fair, the contract for Kolb was absolutely fine. It's perfectly in line with a starting quarterback on his second contract. The evaluation of Kolb was poor. The trade was irresponsible. But the contract itself was right in line with the market.

The problem was the process in getting to the contract.

Bradley's, Colledge's, and Syder's contracts were all dumb. The Bradley signing itself was reprehensible, because it was a poor evaluation and projection compounded by a complete mis-reading of the market at that particular position.

 

[MadCardDisease]

To be fair, the contract for Kolb was absolutely fine. It's perfectly in line with a starting quarterback on his second contract. The evaluation of Kolb was poor. The trade was irresponsible. But the contract itself was right in line with the market.

The problem was the process in getting to the contract.

Bradley's, Colledge's, and Syder's contracts were all dumb. The Bradley signing itself was reprehensible, because it was a poor evaluation and projection compounded by a complete mis-reading of the market at that particular position.

I had a major issue with Snyders contract when they signed him. It blew my mind that the would throw all of that money at a sub-par guard who was a backup at best. The fact that they signed him to be a starter made me want to throw up.

Old Snyder signing thread here:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/adam-snyder-a-card-176977.html

yuck. not a fan of this move. picking up a guard rated amongst the worst in the league/OT who was rated as THE worst in the league from 08-10?

Of the three guys we brought in today, Snyder was the one I wanted the least. I'm fine with him as a depth guy playing at guard and maybe filling in at RT in a pinch but that's it. As a starter, even at RG, I'm not liking it that much.

Why do the Cards like to bring in players who are among the worst at their position?