Kobe pours in 81!

[Chaplin]

Bill Simmons once called Lamar "Taco Salad" because Taco Salads always sound so damn good, but when you eat them they are always lacking something.

Lamar has all the talent in the world, and could be amazing, but something in him does not allow him to live up to it. Boneheaded decisions, mental errors, inconsistency, bad defensive plays, you name it. Lamar is the type of guy who could AVERAGE a triple double, if he actually desired it...but he has no desire. It is frustrating to watch him play.

Mihm is playing great, and I love him, but he's not a good man defender (other than blocks). He's too thin to body up big players.

I disagree that you need to be a superstar to excel in Phil's system. You need to play a role, and play it well. Horace Grant, John Paxon, Dennis Rodman, Glenn Rice, Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, etc. You have guys there that do something very well (rebound, shoot, play defense, etc) and are ok at everything else. But deadeye shooters like Rice, Kerr, Paxon and defenders/rebounders are key. Kwame is stepping into the Ho Grant/Rodman role, but he has a long way to go...I am excited for him, yes, and I see where he's going. I like Smush, and hope he gets more consistent. A great shooter is a missing component though.

They aren't that far away, it only looks/feels that way sometimes.

You're right--my mistake about the superstar thing.

You're right about Kwame stepping into that kind of role, but he is a bad rebounder and awful on the offensive end. He doesn't have the dynamism that Rodman had, either. It is going to be very difficult for Kwame to become anything more than what he is.

 

[D-Dogg]

You're right--my mistake about the superstar thing.

You're right about Kwame stepping into that kind of role, but he is a bad rebounder and awful on the offensive end. He doesn't have the dynamism that Rodman had, either. It is going to be very difficult for Kwame to become anything more than what he is.

Here's the exact taco salad thing from Simmons a few years back:

"The Lamar Odom (taco salad). Always looks good on paper … always lets you down. Either it’s too messy, or there’s too much sour cream, or the taco shell is stale, or the meat sucks. It’s always something. Somehow, I’m always willing to give it another chance — although I definitely wouldn’t sign the taco salad to $60 million over six years."


Lamar Odom to a T.

I disagree with you that Kwame is a bad rebounder. He's been pulling down at a good rate, especially on the offensive glass. No, he's no Rodman, but there's a shot he'll develop his offensive game as well. This guy SHOULD be a rookie right now...

 

[LakeShowMan]

You're right--my mistake about the superstar thing.

You're right about Kwame stepping into that kind of role, but he is a bad rebounder and awful on the offensive end. He doesn't have the dynamism that Rodman had, either. It is going to be very difficult for Kwame to become anything more than what he is.

You know what is so strange about Kwame, and I can't ever remember seeing anyone else like it. On the offensive side of the ball, he actually has really good footwork in the post. He puts himself in good scoring situations/spots, but then it seems like his shot is completely rushed. It is like his shot attempts are going double the speed that the rest of him is. I don't know if I explained it correctly, but if you watch a game with the Lakers and watch him, I think it would definitly jump out at you.

 

[Chaplin]

Here's the exact taco salad thing from Simmons a few years back:

"The Lamar Odom (taco salad). Always looks good on paper … always lets you down. Either it’s too messy, or there’s too much sour cream, or the taco shell is stale, or the meat sucks. It’s always something. Somehow, I’m always willing to give it another chance — although I definitely wouldn’t sign the taco salad to $60 million over six years."


Lamar Odom to a T.

I disagree with you that Kwame is a bad rebounder. He's been pulling down at a good rate, especially on the offensive glass. No, he's no Rodman, but there's a shot he'll develop his offensive game as well. This guy SHOULD be a rookie right now...

Kwame is only averaging 6 rebounds a game. A starting power forward in the NBA needs to do better than that, especially with a poor rebounder like Mihm at center and a guy that doesn't want to rebound in Odom playing next to him.

 

[Chaplin]

You know what is so strange about Kwame, and I can't ever remember seeing anyone else like it. On the offensive side of the ball, he actually has really good footwork in the post. He puts himself in good scoring situations/spots, but then it seems like his shot is completely rushed. It is like his shot attempts are going double the speed that the rest of him is. I don't know if I explained it correctly, but if you watch a game with the Lakers and watch him, I think it would definitly jump out at you.

Good footwork in the post... reminds me of a 7'1" Georgian we had playing for us a couple years ago... too bad he had hands of stone.

 

[jibikao]

To be honest with you guys, from strictly an asthetic perspective, the teams style is not always necesairly fun to watch. As amazing as Kobe Bryant is, basketball was not meant to be played this way. Of course, the league has steadily reverted to these kind of styles over the last 15 years or so.

Jordan showed that an amazing individual paired with the perfect supporting cast can win. It is the complete opposite of what I grew to know as basketball. I was a child of the 80s (born in 1975), my basketball ideals were born from the play of Magic Johnson and the Lakers, Larry Bird and the Celtics, Dr.J and the sixers, and to a lesser extent Isiah and the Bad Boys of Detroit.

Personally I like team play a lot more. Watching the way that the 2005/2006 Pistons play, is like watching an amazing orchestra. Just incredible, throwback basketball.

With all that said, I think that Kobe and Phil understand that for this team to win, most of the time they have to play this way. Thats where I think the misconception comes in. People that don't like Kobe, say that Kobe is playing this way out of selfishness, when in essence it is his drive to win, that forces him to do what the team needs him to do to win.

There were games this year that Kobe was a facilitator and got everyone involved. In fact they had a 6 game road trip earlier in the year that they went 5-1, and Kobe didn't score in bunches but mostly set up teammates and picked his scoring spots. Unfortunately, the inconsistency of his teammates makes it impossible for them to have a set script, if you will. The fact is though, when his supporting cast plays like they have, especially lately, Kobe is forced to play the way he has to give the team the best chance to win.

Kobe is in catch-22, and has been for a long time. When he won with Shaq, it was because of Shaq. People conveinently forget how many big shots, defensive stops, or plays he created for those teams. Also, when he scores a lot he is called a ball hog. When he doesn't score a lot and tries to pass, people say that he sabotages the game. Fact is, Kobe is interested in winning above everything else. I think sometimes his confidence/arrogance leads him to do things that he thinks is needed to win, but I really don't think he is selfish. The funny thing is, if Michael Jordan had the exact same game as Kobe did last night, all we would have heard is "See, thats why he is the greatest ever". When it is Kobe the majority of opposing fans in the league say: "What a freaking ballhog. He is a terrible teammate".

Now, the lot of you can believe this or not, but that is how I see it.

And I agree!

Never a fan of Jordan. I prefer Pippen! lol

That's why I said I don't understand why people trash Kobe that much. There are like millions of "Kobe sucks" threads out there. But I also think Kobe wants individual show more than team show. I could be wrong but I feel he puts the success of the team on HIMSELF a bit too much. Yes, he is the leader but when he's gone "cold", he would keep bricking until his team loses. That's why you need to rely on teammates as well to win games. Did Jordan win championships before Pippen joins? You add Steve Kurr and Dennis Rodman, that's a very solid role player list!

 

[D-Dogg]

You know what is so strange about Kwame, and I can't ever remember seeing anyone else like it. On the offensive side of the ball, he actually has really good footwork in the post. He puts himself in good scoring situations/spots, but then it seems like his shot is completely rushed. It is like his shot attempts are going double the speed that the rest of him is. I don't know if I explained it correctly, but if you watch a game with the Lakers and watch him, I think it would definitly jump out at you.

100%, I agree, and you explained it perfectly.. He has amazing footwork, and easily establishes position. Then he rushes the shot. He *should* just dunk the ball.

I chalk it up to him being afraid to get fouled and go to the line. He is so afraid of the line that he puts his shots through hyperspace.

I think it can be fixed, and his size, agility and footwork entice me. Of course, he may be another taco salad too. I don't think so, however.

 

[LakeShowMan]

Good footwork in the post... reminds me of a 7'1" Georgian we had playing for us a couple years ago... too bad he had hands of stone.

Kwame has that issue as well. He reportedly has small hands for his size. No reports if he smells like cabbage though.

 

[CardsFan222]

46 shots??????????? Kobe better learn to do this every night because he is never going to get anyone good to play with him

81 is great and it shows how good kobe is, but it shows that he does not have any faith in his teamates and that is not a good thing. He took more shots then the rest of the team. If i were the lakers i would trade his ass. all of the good teams in the NBA are TEAMS(Detroit, San Antonio Dallas, phoenix, Memphis etc).

No one will ever want to play with Kobe, and he will never win another ring.

 

[D-Dogg]

Kwame is only averaging 6 rebounds a game. A starting power forward in the NBA needs to do better than that, especially with a poor rebounder like Mihm at center and a guy that doesn't want to rebound in Odom playing next to him.

Odom actually goes after rebounds. It's scoring he doesn't want to do.

Kwame is only averaging 6 boards a game on the season, but also only 26 minutes. He's had some good rebounding games as well, and has improved greatly overall since early in the year.

Also, he's only a sometimes starter. For a long while, Phil wouldn't play him and Mihm at the same time, so Cook or Devean started. Kwame's earned starter position, but not really starters minutes yet. Phil's playing him correctly, and building him up after MJ tore him to the ground. Hopefully Phil and Kobe can save the guy.

 

[D-Dogg]

46 shots??????????? Kobe better learn to do this every night because he is never going to get anyone good to play with him

81 is great and it shows how good kobe is, but it shows that he does not have any faith in his teamates and that is not a good thing. He took more shots then the rest of the team. If i were the lakers i would trade his ass. all of the good teams in the NBA are TEAMS(Detroit, San Antonio Dallas, phoenix, Memphis etc).

No one will ever want to play with Kobe, and he will never win another ring.

Halftime:

Kobe 10/18.

Rest of team 10/32.

Would you trust them?

You sound like Shaq with "no one will ever want to play with Kobe" nonsense. Any player who can score will want to play with Kobe. He makes it easier. The media pollutes people's minds.

 

[elindholm]

In my experience playing pickup basketball, if you're in a game where no one on your team can make a shot, and then someone suddenly catches fire, you're happy to keep going to him. It's like, "I sure wish I could hit a shot today, but apparently I can't. At least we have someone else who can score, and I can find other ways to help my team win. Maybe next game I'll be able to throw it in the ocean."

I've never had a problem with it, but maybe I don't have the right kind of ego.

 

[Chaplin]

Odom actually goes after rebounds. It's scoring he doesn't want to do.

Kwame is only averaging 6 boards a game on the season, but also only 26 minutes. He's had some good rebounding games as well, and has improved greatly overall since early in the year.

Also, he's only a sometimes starter. For a long while, Phil wouldn't play him and Mihm at the same time, so Cook or Devean started. Kwame's earned starter position, but not really starters minutes yet. Phil's playing him correctly, and building him up after MJ tore him to the ground. Hopefully Phil and Kobe can save the guy.

Kwame is unable to be saved. It's admirable that you think all this and continue to convince yourself of these reasons, but there's a reason that Washington gave him up, and it wasn't that he was a good defender and rebounder.

 

[Chaplin]

In my experience playing pickup basketball, if you're in a game where no one on your team can make a shot, and then someone suddenly catches fire, you're happy to keep going to him. It's like, "I sure wish I could hit a shot today, but apparently I can't. At least we have someone else who can score, and I can find other ways to help my team win. Maybe next game I'll be able to throw it in the ocean."

I've never had a problem with it, but maybe I don't have the right kind of ego.

Playground ball is a lot different than NBA ball, where people are paid to play and usually were the best players on their amateur teams (college and/or high school). Even Pat Burke was a great player at one time. Compared to pickup ball, that is.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Kwame has that issue as well. He reportedly has small hands for his size. No reports if he smells like cabbage though.

Too bad he wasn't refering to Muresan, though. He was refering to Jake Tsakalidis(sp?).

 

[D-Dogg]

Kwame is unable to be saved. It's admirable that you think all this and continue to convince yourself of these reasons, but there's a reason that Washington gave him up, and it wasn't that he was a good defender and rebounder.

Let's not run down the list of players that Washington gave up, now.

 

[Chaplin]

Let's not run down the list of players that Washington gave up, now.

That isn't the point.

 

[LakeShowMan]

46 shots??????????? Kobe better learn to do this every night because he is never going to get anyone good to play with him

81 is great and it shows how good kobe is, but it shows that he does not have any faith in his teamates and that is not a good thing. He took more shots then the rest of the team. If i were the lakers i would trade his ass. all of the good teams in the NBA are TEAMS(Detroit, San Antonio Dallas, phoenix, Memphis etc).

No one will ever want to play with Kobe, and he will never win another ring.

Please watch the game before making blind assumptions on how the game was played. The other players rallied around Kobe and completely stepped up on defense ater he started. PLus, they wanted to see history as much as anyone, and were trying to get him in positions to score.

 

[abomb]

I am really glad this turned into a civilized conversation. That being said, I am really craving a taco salad now.

A-Bomb

 

[D-Dogg]

That isn't the point.

It isn't? Remember, that is the franchise that broke him. I'm not assuming he can't be saved after escaping that rathole.

And it ISN'T like Washington doesn't have a track record of releasing players who turn out to be pretty good.

 

[LakeShowMan]

Too bad he wasn't refering to Muresan, though. He was refering to Jake Tsakalidis(sp?).

Actually, I was referencing I think a Austin Powers quote when he was talking about carnies: 'Small hands, smells sort of like cabbage'. I guess I shouldn't quit my day job.

 

[CardsFan222]

Halftime:

Kobe 10/18.

Rest of team 10/32.

Would you trust them?

You sound like Shaq with "no one will ever want to play with Kobe" nonsense. Any player who can score will want to play with Kobe. He makes it easier. The media pollutes people's minds.

It was not just Shaq. Malone said it to and Fisher left when shaq went.

people on that team did not like Kobe. Phil Jackson did not like Kobe and he came back because they are paying him 10 mill a year. but its the media polluting people's minds???????? I would bet you that Lamar Odem cant wait to get out of la la land.

And the only reason Kobe has no talent on the roster is because of Kobe.

Why would anyone want to go play with Kobe?????? He ran off one of the best Centers in history. you think someone will want to go to LA so they can listen to Kobe??? The lakers will play around the 500 for the next few years and then mabey Kobe will wake up and not be so selfish, or the lakers will trade him.

Please do not tell me that Kobe cares about winning. If he did he would have shut his mouth a long time ago and won titles for a couple of more years before the big fella hung it up.

This is what Kobe wants. Live with it

 

[LakeShowMan]

It was not just Shaq. Malone said it to and Fisher left when shaq went.

people on that team did not like Kobe. Phil Jackson did not like Kobe and he came back because they are paying him 10 mill a year. but its the media polluting people's minds???????? I would bet you that Lamar Odem cant wait to get out of la la land.

And the only reason Kobe has no talent on the roster is because of Kobe.

Why would anyone want to go play with Kobe?????? He ran off one of the best Centers in history. you think someone will want to go to LA so they can listen to Kobe??? The lakers will play around the 500 for the next few years and then mabey Kobe will wake up and not be so selfish, or the lakers will trade him.

Please do not tell me that Kobe cares about winning. If he did he would have shut his mouth a long time ago and won titles for a couple of more years before the big fella hung it up.

This is what Kobe wants. Live with it

Did all these quotes come straight from the Kobe Bryant Hater Handbook, or are you just paraphrasing?

At least you don't let reality get in the way of your blind hatred. Good for you.

 

[jandaman]

Then you don't know much about the guy.

I would like to hear Kobe's thoughts about getting a couple of talented players to help him out. He wants to do everything by himself, if not, atleast half of that is true. If you think Kobe would sacrifice his stats and be happy, to get another star in the lakers to help them win another ring... then you dont know much about the guy.

He already has 3 rings, he clearly didnt want another ring when he decided to alienate his star team mates back a couple of seasons ago. He is loving his situation right now, shoot as much as he can because he can get away with it, i mean HE HAS to shoot this much for his team to even have a chance, a player like Kobe loves that situation.

 

[Renz]

Sorry, Wilt: You're no Kobe
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Is 81 enough?

Eighty-One, people.

I'd say so. I'd say all those pre-Christmas wails about Kobe Bryant ripping us off by hanging 62 points on the Dallas Mavericks in three quarters and then sitting out the fourth can suddenly be recalled with a chuckle.

Turns out Kobe's Dec. 20 detonation was not a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for No. 8 to make a run at 80-something points. No one was cheated after all.

Maybe Kobe and his pal Phil Jackson, when they reached that joint decision to stop abusing the Mavs because the Lakers were up by 34, knew they wouldn't have to wait long for another chance at it during an up-for-grabs game.

Why not? You can believe anything on a night like this.

Kobe's chance dutifully materialized almost exactly a month later, on a Sunday that was supposed to belong to gridiron football. You know. The table-setter for Super Bowl Extra Large and all that.

Sorry, NFL.

Sunday will be remembered as the best NBA day in a long, long time. There was a nationally televised buzzer beater in Minnesota from Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala to cap a 19-point comeback in the afternoon ... and then Seattle's Ray Allen beat Phoenix with a way-out buzzer bomb at the horn of overtime No. 2 in a 152-149 throwback thriller ... and then simply the greatest individual performance ever recorded: Bryant's 81 points in a 122-104 come-from-behind victory over the Toronto Raptors.

You'll recall that, sadly, there's no footage of Wilt Chamberlain rumbling for 100 points in Hershey, Pa., on March 2, 1962. Which makes it tough to commission an in-depth analysis comparing Wilt's feat (scoring 100 of his team's 169 points that day) to Kobe's (81 of 122). But I'll gladly settle for the forthcoming flood of Kobe replays, in which you'll see him haul the Lakers back from a 71-53 deficit against a Raps team that kept the game sufficiently close in the final quarter to keep Kobe out there shooting.

Against a Toronto team that somehow held him to 11 points when the teams met in early December -- historic footage now -- Bryant wound up with 55 points after halftime. Fifty-five. For a little perspective, please note that matches the best scoring game in Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's career. That's the same Abdul-Jabbar who, before becoming a Lakers assistant coach, was merely the NBA's all-time scoring leader.

Don't forget, furthermore, that no less an authority than Michael Jordan has been known to say that a perimeter player has it way tougher when it comes to making a legitimate run at Wilt's record. Factor in the ball-handling responsibilities and the energy required to play defense all over the floor and you can understand MJ's theory. This might also help back it up: Jordan himself topped out at 69 points as his one-night best and needed overtime to get there.

No offense to the late, great Chamberlain, but he was in a better position to dominate a box score with the size and strength advantage he possessed, especially in Wilt's era. Some of you will inevitably counter with the claim that Kobe had the benefit of a 3-point line, but don't exaggerate. Having the long-ball option added only seven points to Bryant's total.

With a mere 74, he'd still have registered the richest single-game scoring output in NBA history by anyone not named Wilt.

With 81, so soon after so many opined that he had blown his chance to ever scrape that stratosphere, Bryant has reminded us what we all should know by now about him.

Whatever you think about the game's foremost love-him-or-loathe-him face, and the ongoing debate about how much he shoots, you always have to be ready for What's Next with No. 8.

Chances are it'll be something to dissect for days and days.

Chances are, on the thinnest and neediest team in Jackson's ring-filled history, it won't be the last time Kobe has the forum to fling 40-something shots at history.