Plenty of players hit the league and are sensations for a year or two but then fade. Often, it's because they don't put in the off the field work because they've always gotten by on their pure athleticism and skills rather than their deep knowledge of the game, film time, and the ability to read defenses, as an example. They won games at every level on the way up, so they don't think they need to put in extra time.
Every player is a gamble in reality. You never know how they'll do at the next level.
You make a good point in revisiting this.
Others have said this but I will reiterate, the Broncos roster is far ahead of ours. Another offseason and I feel that gap can be significantly decreased.
www.pro-football-reference.com
Props on all this research my man.I am new here. But I think I can end all this based on stats alone, if that is considered most important.
This page on profootball reference will serve as my basis for most of my arguement.
Arizona Cardinals Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Checkout the Arizona Cardinals Records, Top 12 Leaders, League Ranks, history and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com
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So lets do this. To put it simply the above is putting our teams the last few years in order as if they were being ranked in a college football like format. When Strength of Schedule comes into the picture, things look awfully clearer.
1. 2020 and 2021 vs 2024
Not only do we have the hardest schedule of any team this year, we had basically "neutral" schedule strengths in 2020/2021.
To the point where this 2024 schedule is 3X HARDER (The 3.2 SOS) than the 8-8 and 11-6 years.
Think about that for a second. Because it is the hardest schedule we have had since 2013.
So how good were those Kingsberry teams based on the advanced metrics here?
Not very good at all actually.
In fact the most glaring difference here is the DSRS. The last time our DEF had a rating higher than that 2.4 was when we were 13-3 in 2015. The SOS was a solid 1.3. The year we went to the Conf finals and lost to CAR with Palmer and Arians. Our Defense was ranked 7th in points allowed. That is how good the Rallis/Gannon defensive scheme is.
2024 Defense = 13th in ppg 2.4 DSRS
2021 Defense = 11th in ppg 1.6 DSRS
2020 Defense = 12th in ppg 1.0 DSRS
Our defense is actually top 10 in the NFL right now based on that metric. It is performing better than it did at its best under Bowles. We already knew this instinctively though. When did we ever shut out teams for multiple games at home in 2020-2021?
My first point is this. Kyler had a mediocre defense with a soft schedule, incapable of a playoff run in 2020 or 2021.
Lets look at the 2021 " Kyler Collapse"
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Look at the 5 last Regular Season games where we go 1-4.
Defense allows 28 PPG Offense scores 21 PPG
This is Kyler Murray's fault that our defense had a neutral schedule strength and played worse in 2021 than in 2024?
How did that def perform in playoffs vs Rams? Were they able to get a single big stop when Kingsberry's offense was exposed?
People think the offense was SOOOO much better back then. But it was only ranked 11th and 13th in pts those two years.
This year, even if we won 2 of the last 3 and were 8-5 we'd still only be like 15th in pts scored.
You have to go back to the Arians era when we were 6th and 2nd in offense ppg in back to back years.
Is it Kyler Murray's fault when his stats from 2020-2021 are very similar to 2024 with a schedule 3X harder?
You can look it up yourselves but the difference in his stats in 2020/2021 to 2024 has nothing to do with "not throwing the ball deeper."
The biggest statistical difference is with rushing and RPO.
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Kyler has NEVER RAN THE BALL BETTER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER ON A YARDS PER CARRY AVG.
He has more yards this year with 30 LESS ATTEMPTS.
But I don't want to have the "injury vs running debate." That isn't the key statistic.
This is the BIG DIFFERENCE.
Kyler avg about 280 yds passing in 2020/2021 throwing it only 4 more times per game.
This year he is at 220.
SO WHERE DID THOSE YARDS GO?
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Kyler was so good at RPOs where he ends up passing and we have cut that from his game. We also do not have the talent on offense to make a playoff run.
You need overwhelming talent for when you are down and have bad luck. Most playoff teams this year have funs who do not believe the game is over when their QB throws 2 INTs in the first qtr. But we have fans ready to blame our QB for the loss before we even lose. Goff had 5 INTs in a game this year and the Lions won. Stroud had 4 INTs vs us last year and the Texans won. KC has been trailing in 9 of their wins in the 4th QTR this year...Their def prior to the BUF game had only allowed 20 YARDS TOTAL in those 9 4th quarters COMBINED.
WOW WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO HAVE SOME ACTUAL TALENT TO WIN GAMES LIKE THIS?
PAGING MONTI AND Bidwill.
Do I really have to keep going?
How about Russell Wilson beating the Packers in the playoffs in the year Seattle went to the Superbowl when he threw 4 INTs? We have fans who believe our QB needs to play above average or better every game as if that is the reason why other teams are good. It isn't and it never has been. That is how Mahomes used to be far down the list in QBR this year while KC was undefeated.
KYLER MURRAY HAS NEVER HAD ENOUGH TALENT AROUND HIM TO MAKE A SUPERBOWL RUN.
NO CARDINALS QB HAS SINCE CARSON PALMER HAD THE 7TH RANKED DEFENSE AND 2ND RANKED OFFENSE IN 2015.
Everyone agrees about the defense needing more talent and depth.
NO ONE IS LOOKING AT THE OFFENSE.
Benson was supposed to catch more screen passes and be releavant in the passing game but that hasn't materialized. Greg Dorch has become an invisible sort of weird decoy in Petzing's offense. Harrison is beating all rookie WRs in all sorts of categories and will break the record for TDs. He isn't to blame either. Michael Wilson is a great asset to have. Trey Mcbride is a monster and James Conner is a beast.
BUT WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. THIS ISN'T ENOUGH TALENT.
It will be a shame if the ball bounces the wrong way in the playoffs next year, or Kyler has 2 first qtr INTs or the refs screw us like they did in the SEA game and our offense is incapable of coming back from it. How many of our fans look at that 17-7 score in the first qtr with great worry? Well other teams who are in the playoffs don't have fans who consider 2 offensive turnovers and a 10 point margin in the 1st qtr to mean the QB blew the game.
24-10.
How many of us instinctively saw that score at half and knew in our hearts the game was basically over? Again, this is because we know already we lack overwhelming firepower on offense to come back vs a good defense. Thats the thing guys. If we can't do that, we will likely lose in the playoffs next year, if things start badly one game. It doesn't matter how disciplined or efficient we are on offense and defense when everything goes against you if you don't have the talent necessary to overcome a big hole.
We are a young, bipolar team that has shown flashes of greatness and ugly.
At our best with these current injuries and no depth, we play above average.
We resemble the 2022-23 9-8 Detroit Lions. What happened when they added talent?
Giving up on this coaching staff is unforgiveable ESPECIALLY on the DEF SIDE.
Giving up on Kyler Murray with all I just explained is ignoring the truth.
He HAS NEVER had what Carson Palmer had. He doesn't even need that much to win it all.
But he needs more help not just on defense, but on offense too.
PERIOD.
PS just for FUN:
We had one of the easiest schedules when we went 9-7 and made it all the way to the superbowl. Our offense was 3rd and our defense was 28th.
To put that into an insane perspective, the advanced stats here say our defense was better the year Kingsberry got fired (4-13) than the Superbowl losing year LOL.
This really deserves to be its own thread.I am new here. But I think I can end all this based on stats alone, if that is considered most important.
This page on profootball reference will serve as my basis for most of my arguement.
Arizona Cardinals Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Checkout the Arizona Cardinals Records, Top 12 Leaders, League Ranks, history and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
So lets do this. To put it simply the above is putting our teams the last few years in order as if they were being ranked in a college football like format. When Strength of Schedule comes into the picture, things look awfully clearer.
1. 2020 and 2021 vs 2024
Not only do we have the hardest schedule of any team this year, we had basically "neutral" schedule strengths in 2020/2021.
To the point where this 2024 schedule is 3X HARDER (The 3.2 SOS) than the 8-8 and 11-6 years.
Think about that for a second. Because it is the hardest schedule we have had since 2013.
So how good were those Kingsberry teams based on the advanced metrics here?
Not very good at all actually.
In fact the most glaring difference here is the DSRS. The last time our DEF had a rating higher than that 2.4 was when we were 13-3 in 2015. The SOS was a solid 1.3. The year we went to the Conf finals and lost to CAR with Palmer and Arians. Our Defense was ranked 7th in points allowed. That is how good the Rallis/Gannon defensive scheme is.
2024 Defense = 13th in ppg 2.4 DSRS (Also 12th in sacks)
2021 Defense = 11th in ppg 1.6 DSRS
2020 Defense = 12th in ppg 1.0 DSRS
Our defense is actually top 10 in the NFL right now based on that metric. It is performing better than it did at its best under Bowles. We already knew this instinctively though. When did we ever shut out teams for multiple games at home in 2020-2021? It is said that our over-achieving defense seems to have gotten demoralized from the Vikings big comeback. That plus the fact that SEA changed their oline running scheme in the middle of the 1st quarter apparently which caught them off guard. They have played amazing given the circumstances and deserve tremendous recognition. Everyone left them for dead.
My first point is this. Kyler had a mediocre defense with a soft schedule, incapable of a playoff run in 2020 or 2021.
Lets look at the 2021 " Kyler Collapse"
You must be registered for see images attach
Look at the 5 last Regular Season games where we go 1-4.
Defense allows 28 PPG Offense scores 21 PPG
This is Kyler Murray's fault that our defense had a neutral schedule strength and played worse in 2021 than in 2024?
How did that def perform in playoffs vs Rams? Were they able to get a single big stop when Kingsberry's offense was exposed?
People think the offense was SOOOO much better back then. But it was only ranked 11th and 13th in pts those two years.
This year, even if we won 2 of the last 3 and were 8-5 we'd still only be like 15th in pts scored.
You have to go back to the Arians era when we were 6th and 2nd in offense ppg in back to back years.
Is it Kyler Murray's fault when his stats from 2020-2021 are very similar to 2024 with a schedule 3X harder?
You can look it up yourselves but the difference in his stats in 2020/2021 to 2024 has nothing to do with "not throwing the ball deeper."
He had 4 game-winning comebacks in 2021 and he has 3 so far this year. He is getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds which is the fastest in his career.
The oline did not hold well lately (5 sacks in SEA for instance) He is on pace to get sacked more this year than 2021 when he held onto the ball 2.4 seconds.
The actual biggest statistical difference is with rushing and RPO.
You must be registered for see images attach
Kyler has NEVER RAN THE BALL BETTER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER ON A YARDS PER CARRY AVG.
He has more yards this year with 30 LESS ATTEMPTS.
But I don't want to have the "injury vs running debate." That isn't the key statistic.
This is the BIG DIFFERENCE.
Kyler avg about 280 yds passing in 2020/2021 throwing it only 4 more times per game.
This year he is at 220.
SO WHERE DID THOSE YARDS GO?
You must be registered for see images attach
Kyler was so good at RPOs where he ends up passing and we have cut that from his game. We also do not have the talent on offense to make a playoff run.
You need overwhelming talent for when you are down and have bad luck. Most playoff teams this year have funs who do not believe the game is over when their QB throws 2 INTs in the first qtr. But we have fans ready to blame our QB for the loss before we even lose. Goff had 5 INTs in a game this year and the Lions won. Stroud had 4 INTs vs us last year and the Texans won. KC has been trailing in 9 of their wins in the 4th QTR this year...Their def prior to the BUF game had only allowed 20 YARDS TOTAL in those 9 4th quarters COMBINED.
WOW WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO HAVE SOME ACTUAL TALENT TO WIN GAMES LIKE THIS?
PAGING MONTI AND Bidwill.
Do I really have to keep going?
How about Russell Wilson beating the Packers in the playoffs in the year Seattle went to the Superbowl when he threw 4 INTs? We have fans who believe our QB needs to play above average or better every game as if that is the reason why other teams are good. It isn't and it never has been. That is how Mahomes used to be far down the list in QBR this year while KC was undefeated.
KYLER MURRAY HAS NEVER HAD ENOUGH TALENT AROUND HIM TO MAKE A SUPERBOWL RUN.
NO CARDINALS QB HAS SINCE CARSON PALMER HAD THE 7TH RANKED DEFENSE AND 2ND RANKED OFFENSE IN 2015.
Everyone agrees about the defense needing more talent and depth.
NO ONE IS LOOKING AT THE OFFENSE.
Benson was supposed to catch more screen passes and be releavant in the passing game but that hasn't materialized. Greg Dorch has become an invisible sort of weird decoy in Petzing's offense. Harrison is beating all rookie WRs in all sorts of categories and will break the record for TDs. He isn't to blame either. Michael Wilson is a great asset to have. Trey Mcbride is a monster and James Conner is a beast.
BUT WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. THIS ISN'T ENOUGH TALENT.
It will be a shame if the ball bounces the wrong way in the playoffs next year, or Kyler has 2 first qtr INTs or the refs screw us like they did in the SEA game and our offense is incapable of coming back from it. How many of our fans look at that 17-7 score in the first qtr with great worry? Well other teams who are in the playoffs don't have fans who consider 2 offensive turnovers and a 10 point margin in the 1st qtr to mean the QB blew the game.
24-10.
How many of us instinctively saw that score at half and knew in our hearts the game was basically over? Again, this is because we know already we lack overwhelming firepower on offense to come back vs a good defense. Thats the thing guys. If we can't do that, we will likely lose in the playoffs next year, if things start badly one game. It doesn't matter how disciplined or efficient we are on offense and defense when everything goes against you if you don't have the talent necessary to overcome a big hole.
We are a young, bipolar team that has shown flashes of greatness and ugly.
At our best with these current injuries and no depth, we play above average.
We resemble the 2022-23 9-8 Detroit Lions. What happened when they added talent on both sides?
Giving up on this coaching staff is unforgivable ESPECIALLY on the DEF SIDE. Giving up on Kyler Murray with all I just explained is ignoring the truth.
Sam Darnold just threw 5 TD passes. You can make the case he has more weapons on offense than Kyler Murray has.
I wonder why they are such a threat and have had so many come from behind wins?
He HAS NEVER had what Carson Palmer had. He doesn't even need that much to win it all.
But he needs more help not just on defense, but on offense too.
PERIOD.
PS just for FUN:
We had one of the easiest schedules when we went 9-7 and made it all the way to the superbowl. Our offense was 3rd and our defense was 28th.
To put that into an insane perspective, the advanced stats here say our defense was better the year Kingsberry got fired (4-13) than the Superbowl losing year LOL.
So yes, I think schedule strength not only matters, it explains Kyler Murray.
How significantly, with Monti being such a FA conservationist.
I am new here. But I think I can end all this based on stats alone, if that is considered most important.
This page on profootball reference will serve as my basis for most of my arguement.
Arizona Cardinals Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Checkout the Arizona Cardinals Records, Top 12 Leaders, League Ranks, history and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
So lets do this. To put it simply the above is putting our teams the last few years in order as if they were being ranked in a college football like format. When Strength of Schedule comes into the picture, things look awfully clearer.
1. 2020 and 2021 vs 2024
Not only do we have the hardest schedule of any team this year, we had basically "neutral" schedule strengths in 2020/2021.
To the point where this 2024 schedule is 3X HARDER (The 3.2 SOS) than the 8-8 and 11-6 years.
Think about that for a second. Because it is the hardest schedule we have had since 2013.
So how good were those Kingsberry teams based on the advanced metrics here?
Not very good at all actually.
In fact the most glaring difference here is the DSRS. The last time our DEF had a rating higher than that 2.4 was when we were 13-3 in 2015. The SOS was a solid 1.3. The year we went to the Conf finals and lost to CAR with Palmer and Arians. Our Defense was ranked 7th in points allowed. That is how good the Rallis/Gannon defensive scheme is.
2024 Defense = 13th in ppg 2.4 DSRS
2021 Defense = 11th in ppg 1.6 DSRS
2020 Defense = 12th in ppg 1.0 DSRS
Our defense is actually top 10 in the NFL right now based on that metric. It is performing better than it did at its best under Bowles. We already knew this instinctively though. When did we ever shut out teams for multiple games at home in 2020-2021?
My first point is this. Kyler had a mediocre defense with a soft schedule, incapable of a playoff run in 2020 or 2021.
Lets look at the 2021 " Kyler Collapse"
You must be registered for see images attach
Look at the 5 last Regular Season games where we go 1-4.
Defense allows 28 PPG Offense scores 21 PPG
This is Kyler Murray's fault that our defense had a neutral schedule strength and played worse in 2021 than in 2024?
How did that def perform in playoffs vs Rams? Were they able to get a single big stop when Kingsberry's offense was exposed?
People think the offense was SOOOO much better back then. But it was only ranked 11th and 13th in pts those two years.
This year, even if we won 2 of the last 3 and were 8-5 we'd still only be like 15th in pts scored.
You have to go back to the Arians era when we were 6th and 2nd in offense ppg in back to back years.
Is it Kyler Murray's fault when his stats from 2020-2021 are very similar to 2024 with a schedule 3X harder?
You can look it up yourselves but the difference in his stats in 2020/2021 to 2024 has nothing to do with "not throwing the ball deeper."
The biggest statistical difference is with rushing and RPO.
You must be registered for see images attach
Kyler has NEVER RAN THE BALL BETTER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER ON A YARDS PER CARRY AVG.
He has more yards this year with 30 LESS ATTEMPTS.
But I don't want to have the "injury vs running debate." That isn't the key statistic.
This is the BIG DIFFERENCE.
Kyler avg about 280 yds passing in 2020/2021 throwing it only 4 more times per game.
This year he is at 220.
SO WHERE DID THOSE YARDS GO?
You must be registered for see images attach
Kyler was so good at RPOs where he ends up passing and we have cut that from his game. We also do not have the talent on offense to make a playoff run.
You need overwhelming talent for when you are down and have bad luck. Most playoff teams this year have funs who do not believe the game is over when their QB throws 2 INTs in the first qtr. But we have fans ready to blame our QB for the loss before we even lose. Goff had 5 INTs in a game this year and the Lions won. Stroud had 4 INTs vs us last year and the Texans won. KC has been trailing in 9 of their wins in the 4th QTR this year...Their def prior to the BUF game had only allowed 20 YARDS TOTAL in those 9 4th quarters COMBINED.
WOW WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO HAVE SOME ACTUAL TALENT TO WIN GAMES LIKE THIS?
PAGING MONTI AND Bidwill.
Do I really have to keep going?
How about Russell Wilson beating the Packers in the playoffs in the year Seattle went to the Superbowl when he threw 4 INTs? We have fans who believe our QB needs to play above average or better every game as if that is the reason why other teams are good. It isn't and it never has been. That is how Mahomes used to be far down the list in QBR this year while KC was undefeated.
KYLER MURRAY HAS NEVER HAD ENOUGH TALENT AROUND HIM TO MAKE A SUPERBOWL RUN.
NO CARDINALS QB HAS SINCE CARSON PALMER HAD THE 7TH RANKED DEFENSE AND 2ND RANKED OFFENSE IN 2015.
Everyone agrees about the defense needing more talent and depth.
NO ONE IS LOOKING AT THE OFFENSE.
Benson was supposed to catch more screen passes and be releavant in the passing game but that hasn't materialized. Greg Dorch has become an invisible sort of weird decoy in Petzing's offense. Harrison is beating all rookie WRs in all sorts of categories and will break the record for TDs. He isn't to blame either. Michael Wilson is a great asset to have. Trey Mcbride is a monster and James Conner is a beast.
BUT WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. THIS ISN'T ENOUGH TALENT.
It will be a shame if the ball bounces the wrong way in the playoffs next year, or Kyler has 2 first qtr INTs or the refs screw us like they did in the SEA game and our offense is incapable of coming back from it. How many of our fans look at that 17-7 score in the first qtr with great worry? Well other teams who are in the playoffs don't have fans who consider 2 offensive turnovers and a 10 point margin in the 1st qtr to mean the QB blew the game.
24-10.
How many of us instinctively saw that score at half and knew in our hearts the game was basically over? Again, this is because we know already we lack overwhelming firepower on offense to come back vs a good defense. Thats the thing guys. If we can't do that, we will likely lose in the playoffs next year, if things start badly one game. It doesn't matter how disciplined or efficient we are on offense and defense when everything goes against you if you don't have the talent necessary to overcome a big hole.
We are a young, bipolar team that has shown flashes of greatness and ugly.
At our best with these current injuries and no depth, we play above average.
We resemble the 2022-23 9-8 Detroit Lions. What happened when they added talent?
Giving up on this coaching staff is unforgiveable ESPECIALLY on the DEF SIDE.
Giving up on Kyler Murray with all I just explained is ignoring the truth.
He HAS NEVER had what Carson Palmer had. He doesn't even need that much to win it all.
But he needs more help not just on defense, but on offense too.
PERIOD.
PS just for FUN:
We had one of the easiest schedules when we went 9-7 and made it all the way to the superbowl. Our offense was 3rd and our defense was 28th.
To put that into an insane perspective, the advanced stats here say our defense was better the year Kingsberry got fired (4-13) than the Superbowl losing year LOL.
This
Glad to hear players opinion on K1.
The playoffs! Such a great accomplishment that nearly half the league makes it. We should obviously throw a victory parade for making it...maybe a retroactive one for our great 2021 season?
