Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Brian in Mesa]

2 of the last 3 games there hasn’t been a pocket. The oline has been terrible.

They have regressed since the bye.

He was in a great pocket and tossed a pick. SMH.

 

[cardinals2025]

if you still believe in kyler murray i got some bad news about santa

seriously tho - it's not the stats - it's everything but - have you ever tried having a conversation about kyler murray without using the word "but"? all but impossible

deal is dude shrinks during the worst times - that's not a height knock - ive never bitched about supposedly not "seeing over the line" or blamed hand size yada yada - he just shrinks in the freakin moment

the confidence he exuded in college when he wasn't making a dime has been replaced with extremely well compensated anxiety

and im not a hater - more of a defender - but no cherry pickin' smorgasbord of statistical glory can defend the situation we're in

Would you consider this a cherry pick?

You must be registered for see images attach

Do you know that Josh Allen and Kyler Murray had similar stats in almost every category going into this year?

These were their career stats prior to this year. Look how close they are in the per game categories. Obviously, Kyler's injuries hurt him in the "totals." But it is absolutely crazy how close their stats have been considering their different situations.

Put Kyler Murray on the Bills right now and tell me he is not better than 6-7.

You can ignore the stats of my last post but the lack of talent around him is obvious in this example too. A reporter actually asked Kyler about this in week one before the game.

Now tell me when Kyler has had any of these things Josh Allen has ALWAYS had...

1. A pro-bowl offensive line

2. A good GM and coach he likes at the same time.

3. A great defense. (The Bills defense has been the best in the league since Josh Allen got drafted btw)


He has never had those things that Allen has had for his entire career. So I find it hard to see the counter-arguement to this one.


The irony of us going to BUF and nearly beating them once we start to give him some help but now fans want to give up on the staff and him is insane.

We started 2-4 and have gone 4-3 to get to 6-7.

How many people would have taken that?

I am not trying to start something with you personally. I am just trying to make the point that Monti had infered a 3 year plan to rebuild. It is good that we have shown flashes of superior play this year. But next year after we take advantage of our large cap space to sign FA's is OUR YEAR. Vegas had us at 7.5 wins and we have a good chance to get 9. People are just upset about WHO we lost to.

But at the end of the day, 8 wins is double our win total from last year. Which is acceptable considering our lack of depth with all our injuries.
If we do manage 9 wins though and miss the playoffs, how can anyone make an argument to tear everything apart?

4-13 to 9-8

And you want to get rid of the QB and/or coaching staff? Other fans on other teams would consider you insane. I'd agree that 7 wins at this point would be alarming and a massive disappointment. But I highly doubt that is going to happen.

 

[cardinals2025]

He was in a great pocket and tossed a pick. SMH.

On the weekly cardinals podcast they said the first WR ran an open route and Kyler threw it behind him.

Then they mentioned that the Seahawks talked about the 2nd INT in their postgame. They said the defender came off his own assignment at the last second to cover someone else who messed up. That it was a broken play that should have been a big gain for us. They were talking about it like it was one of the best plays someone on defense has made for them all year.

So in reality, Kyler made two good decisions. One poor throw and one great play at the last second by the defense.

 

[slanidrac16]

Would you consider this a cherry pick?

You must be registered for see images attach

Do you know that Josh Allen and Kyler Murray had similar stats in almost every category going into this year?

These were their career stats prior to this year. Look how close they are in the per game categories. Obviously, Kyler's injuries hurt him in the "totals." But it is absolutely crazy how close their stats have been considering their different situations.

Put Kyler Murray on the Bills right now and tell me he is not better than 6-7.

You can ignore the stats of my last post but the lack of talent around him is obvious in this example too. A reporter actually asked Kyler about this in week one before the game.

Now tell me when Kyler has had any of these things Josh Allen has ALWAYS had...

1. A pro-bowl offensive line

2. A good GM and coach he likes at the same time.

3. A great defense. (The Bills defense has been the best in the league since Josh Allen got drafted btw)


He has never had those things that Allen has had for his entire career. So I find it hard to see the counter-arguement to this one.


The irony of us going to BUF and nearly beating them once we start to give him some help but now fans want to give up on the staff and him is insane.

We started 2-4 and have gone 4-3 to get to 6-7.

How many people would have taken that?

I am not trying to start something with you personally. I am just trying to make the point that Monti had infered a 3 year plan to rebuild. It is good that we have shown flashes of superior play this year. But next year after we take advantage of our large cap space to sign FA's is OUR YEAR. Vegas had us at 7.5 wins and we have a good chance to get 9. People are just upset about WHO we lost to.

But at the end of the day, 8 wins is double our win total from last year. Which is acceptable considering our lack of depth with all our injuries.
If we do manage 9 wins though and miss the playoffs, how can anyone make an argument to tear everything apart?

4-13 to 9-8

And you want to get rid of the QB and/or coaching staff? Other fans on other teams would consider you insane. I'd agree that 7 wins at this point would be alarming and a massive disappointment. But I highly doubt that is going to happen.

You should hook up with 602 native. You’ll make a great couple.

 

[cardinals2025]

Kyler will be under extreme pressure on Sunday to perform well against the Pats. With the Rams win over the 49ers last night, Arizona is no longer in last place in the division. Kyler must rise up to keep the Cards out of the basement. He needs to perform his job instead of polishing his golf clubs for the offseason.

There is no excuse for him or anyone else in this game. We played against one of the best defensive minds in the game 2 out of the last 3 weeks. Then we also played against what many consider is a top 5 defense. NE is a bottom-feeder.

I think this game means alot to him also considering it was NE when he tore his ACL last time vs them here.

We lost to a lowly Lions team 30-12 and to a CAR team that was only .500 in 2021 when we started to "collapse."

So anyone who thinks the past is repeating that says us beating NE and CAR isn't significant for Kyler is wrong.

 

[602 Native]

He was in a great pocket and tossed a pick. SMH.

Yep, and the line still played like dog doo what is your point?

 

[BirdGangThing]

Would you consider this a cherry pick?

You must be registered for see images attach

Do you know that Josh Allen and Kyler Murray had similar stats in almost every category going into this year?

These were their career stats prior to this year. Look how close they are in the per game categories. Obviously, Kyler's injuries hurt him in the "totals." But it is absolutely crazy how close their stats have been considering their different situations.

Put Kyler Murray on the Bills right now and tell me he is not better than 6-7.

You can ignore the stats of my last post but the lack of talent around him is obvious in this example too. A reporter actually asked Kyler about this in week one before the game.

Now tell me when Kyler has had any of these things Josh Allen has ALWAYS had...

1. A pro-bowl offensive line

2. A good GM and coach he likes at the same time.

3. A great defense. (The Bills defense has been the best in the league since Josh Allen got drafted btw)


He has never had those things that Allen has had for his entire career. So I find it hard to see the counter-arguement to this one.


The irony of us going to BUF and nearly beating them once we start to give him some help but now fans want to give up on the staff and him is insane.

We started 2-4 and have gone 4-3 to get to 6-7.

How many people would have taken that?

I am not trying to start something with you personally. I am just trying to make the point that Monti had infered a 3 year plan to rebuild. It is good that we have shown flashes of superior play this year. But next year after we take advantage of our large cap space to sign FA's is OUR YEAR. Vegas had us at 7.5 wins and we have a good chance to get 9. People are just upset about WHO we lost to.

But at the end of the day, 8 wins is double our win total from last year. Which is acceptable considering our lack of depth with all our injuries.
If we do manage 9 wins though and miss the playoffs, how can anyone make an argument to tear everything apart?

4-13 to 9-8

And you want to get rid of the QB and/or coaching staff? Other fans on other teams would consider you insane. I'd agree that 7 wins at this point would be alarming and a massive disappointment. But I highly doubt that is going to happen.

yes - you just cherry picked your kyler loving rear end off - again - idk if you're familiar but cherry picking means to only pick the stats that flatter your argument

never said i wanted the coaching staff fired - im not a fan of the petzing playcall - especially in the redzone as of late - but I like gannon and rallis so don't put that hate on me ricky bobby

you bring up all these other things to deflect from the main thing being kyler murray's inability to win crucial games - and you comparing him to josh allen does your "argument" no favors

there isn't a respected football mind on this planet who would take kyler murray over josh allen and im dead ass serious when i say that - they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence - maholmes - burrow - lamar.... there are rookies and sophomores in this league most would trade kyler murray for tomorrow - because murray has become a known quantity

 

[cardinals2025]

You should hook up with 602 native. You’ll make a great couple.

LOL I will need more context for this.

I am honestly a huge James Conner fan first and foremost. I think he has always been our best player but I will still defend Kyler until I think he has been given a fair shake.
But I am usually more of a defensive guy. I really love watching Starling Thomas play, considering his lack of size and speed. He was left for dead on the SF practice squad and now he starts for us vs # 1 WRs and probably has done better than Bunting tbh. I think Melton has a bright future as well. Mack Wilson was a steal and Dante Stills has pro-bowl potential in his future.

All of this has proven to me how good of a defensive scheme we have. The fact that it has performed better than Bowles in alot of ways already despite injuries and Darious Robinson even having an impact yet makes me more excited than anything on the offensive side. People get excited when Harrison touches the ball. I get excited that we were averaging 5 sacks a game the last 3 prior to the last one where Geno didn't get touched. That we are somehow 13th in opponents ppg now just seems like a miracle. Defense was left for dead and look how much they have overachieved.

Now we got a ton of $$$ to play with. Just gotta get Budda locked up for a 2 year deal like Conner just got first.

18 tackles. They are utilizing him in a way we could have never imagined. He may lead the league in tackles to finish.

 

[Chopper0080]

I draft a QB in this class but not before 3rd round. Essentially punt on 2025 so I don’t have kylers cap hot in 2026 and hope bottoming out (again) next season leads to a QB we desire in the 2026 draft.

Personally, I am done punting seasons.

 

[Stout]

When throwing from the pocket, Kyler is ranked at the very bottom of all QB’s with respect to attempted passing yards.
If Kyler is forced to throw from the pocket, he’s checking down…

Yep. I get that he needs to move out of the pocket more by design--whether it be by Petzing calling more of those plays or Kyler not audibling out of them--but he has to be TONS better in the pocket. You simply cannot stink in the pocket as a QB and be a good NFL QB.

 

[Stout]

Kyler will be under extreme pressure on Sunday to perform well against the Pats. With the Rams win over the 49ers last night, Arizona is no longer in last place in the division. Kyler must rise up to keep the Cards out of the basement. He needs to perform his job instead of polishing his golf clubs for the offseason.

Actually, there's really no pressure beyond he has to stop the losing streak. We are effectively out of playoff contention, so now Kyler will probably play well again. It is the way.

 

[Chopper0080]

Defenses know this. Kyler cannot beat you from the pocket. Kyler should NEVER drop straight back.

You understand that teams rush their ends vs Kyler to contain. That makes rolling out nearly impossible to do consistently.

 

[cardinals2025]

yes - you just cherry picked your kyler loving rear end off - again - idk if you're familiar but cherry picking means to only pick the stats that flatter your argument

never said i wanted the coaching staff fired - im not a fan of the petzing playcall - especially in the redzone as of late - but I like gannon and rallis so don't put that hate on me ricky bobby

you bring up all these other things to deflect from the main thing being kyler murray's inability to win crucial games - and you comparing him to josh allen does your "argument" no favors

there isn't a respected football mind on this planet who would take kyler murray over josh allen and im dead ass serious when i say that - they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence - maholmes - burrow - lamar.... there are rookies and sophomores in this league most would trade kyler murray for tomorrow - because murray has become a known quantity

So that is a yes that Kyler would do better than 6-7 on the Bills or are you saying we have more talent than them?

Sure. I can admit he hasn't done the best in crucial games. You also have given no stats to back up the fact that we have had a team good enough to win "crucial" games.

The irony being that the only way we would win those games is him being Superman. In crucial games. Vs very good opponents, who predominately will have very good defenses.

Yes I concede, a young, immature, Kyler Murray before the ACL injury could have done better in many games.

But that is not who he is anymore. The reason we are losing these games has more to do with the entire team than just him. Our offense did well enough to beat MINN for instance.

A team that has 10 wins, more talent on offense and defense, and you have a 22-6 lead. How is that the QB's fault exactly for the loss?

 

[BirdGangThing]

Actually, there's really no pressure beyond he has to stop the losing streak. We are effectively out of playoff contention, so now Kyler will probably play well again. It is the way.

hell he might even start running the ball again

 

[Stout]

On the weekly cardinals podcast they said the first WR ran an open route and Kyler threw it behind him.

Then they mentioned that the Seahawks talked about the 2nd INT in their postgame. They said the defender came off his own assignment at the last second to cover someone else who messed up. That it was a broken play that should have been a big gain for us. They were talking about it like it was one of the best plays someone on defense has made for them all year.

So in reality, Kyler made two good decisions. One poor throw and one great play at the last second by the defense.

So many gymnastics to defend Kyler. Wow.

"No, no, those were actually GOOD decisions, just (mumbles the rest)."

 

[Cheesebeef]

Personally, I am done punting seasons.

wanting to keep Kyler around says you’re not.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yep. I get that he needs to move out of the pocket more by design--whether it be by Petzing calling more of those plays or Kyler not audibling out of them--but he has to be TONS better in the pocket. You simply cannot stink in the pocket as a QB and be a good NFL QB.

It's on Kyler to do better from the pocket. To do better vs the blitz. To do better vs man. He has to adjust and he will or he won't. There isn't really a magic cure for this.

 

[Stout]

Personally, I am done punting seasons.

Except you want us to punt on next season, man. You cannot bring back a QB you don't believe in and say it's not punting on the season.

 

[Stout]

wanting to keep Kyler around says you’re not.

Damn you, Cheese, you beat me to it!

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Except you want us to punt on next season, man. You cannot bring back a QB you don't believe in and say it's not punting on the season.

As nobody says in the NFL, "Maybe his 7th season will really show what he can do !!"

 

[Stout]

As nobody says in the NFL, "Maybe his 7th season will really show what he can do !!"

There will be some few saying this, no doubt.

 

[Chopper0080]

wanting to keep Kyler around says you’re not.

I would rather be between 7 and 10 wins over the next season or two than winning 4 games with a 3rd round rookie draft pick (I am only using this option because you had mentioned it). I am done tanking. I am done with being one of the worst franchises in football and having historically bad season wins over multiple years. I want better than Kyler, but I recognize that many teams have traded up from the middle of the first round to get a QB that they really want. I am ok being patient for that opportunity.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except you want us to punt on next season, man. You cannot bring back a QB you don't believe in and say it's not punting on the season.

He is inarguably a top 20 QB. That is not "punting" a season.

 

[kerouac9]

Would you consider this a cherry pick?

You must be registered for see images attach

Do you know that Josh Allen and Kyler Murray had similar stats in almost every category going into this year?

These were their career stats prior to this year. Look how close they are in the per game categories. Obviously, Kyler's injuries hurt him in the "totals." But it is absolutely crazy how close their stats have been considering their different situations.

Put Kyler Murray on the Bills right now and tell me he is not better than 6-7.

You can ignore the stats of my last post but the lack of talent around him is obvious in this example too. A reporter actually asked Kyler about this in week one before the game.

Now tell me when Kyler has had any of these things Josh Allen has ALWAYS had...

1. A pro-bowl offensive line

2. A good GM and coach he likes at the same time.

3. A great defense. (The Bills defense has been the best in the league since Josh Allen got drafted btw)


He has never had those things that Allen has had for his entire career. So I find it hard to see the counter-arguement to this one.


The irony of us going to BUF and nearly beating them once we start to give him some help but now fans want to give up on the staff and him is insane.

We started 2-4 and have gone 4-3 to get to 6-7.

How many people would have taken that?

I am not trying to start something with you personally. I am just trying to make the point that Monti had infered a 3 year plan to rebuild. It is good that we have shown flashes of superior play this year. But next year after we take advantage of our large cap space to sign FA's is OUR YEAR. Vegas had us at 7.5 wins and we have a good chance to get 9. People are just upset about WHO we lost to.

But at the end of the day, 8 wins is double our win total from last year. Which is acceptable considering our lack of depth with all our injuries.
If we do manage 9 wins though and miss the playoffs, how can anyone make an argument to tear everything apart?

4-13 to 9-8

And you want to get rid of the QB and/or coaching staff? Other fans on other teams would consider you insane. I'd agree that 7 wins at this point would be alarming and a massive disappointment. But I highly doubt that is going to happen.

Bro this is deranged.

 

[Chopper0080]

I struggle that people on this board argue like the only acceptable place to be is winning 4 games or winning multiple playoff games. In hindsight you can argue the Browns moved on from their "Kyler" to get Watson and look where it landed them.