Kyler Murray, you will become a Cardinal. It is....

[POISON]

How unoriginal of you. Lol I've never seen you post anything of substance. Idk why anybody even responds to your posts. Its obvious your a troll

I actually joined in 2002 but that doesn't matter to me. You joined when? In 2018? Right around the time your pal was drafted. I have nothing against the guy personally, he's an average quarterback in my opinion. You have yours. Btw, I'm no troll, boy. You are. I've watched this crappy team since I was 6 years old in 1973 when they were in St . Louis and I've always stuck with them. I'll always watch them regardless....

 

[POISON]

Eh no.. This debate has been going on for over a month now, and i know you just recently started getting in on it but I have Murray vs Rosen fatigue already. At this point I have nothing more to say its literally the same things being said over and over. I have already made my point and gave my opinion many many times. I said that guys a troll because he literally just hates Josh Rosen with a passion and quotes me all the time with the same "Rosen sucks" post. I usually just ignore him though

I never said he sucks, I said he's terrible or overrated. I hope he does well if we keep him though. Are you his brother or a relatve?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Matt Leinart was said to have a good work ethic in college, but when he transitioned to the NFL, it wasn't good enough. I believe Kyler thinks he works hard, but I haven't seen him ever elevate. Grinders don't generally quit things. Perfectionists generally don't look unprepared. Players who love a game generally don't quit on it, they have to have it taken away. These are generalizations, but these are traits top NFL QBs have and Murray's decisions and actions have not embodied those.

Is he uber talented? Absolutely. But Michael Vick was bigger and faster and had more experience and still underachieved as a pro QB. I don't know why we should expect anything close to the level that Vick go to.

Because Murray is 50x the passer Vick was.

If you cant see that readily apparent by watching 5 mins of film, I dont know what else to say.

Vick was a very limited passer coming out and had very poor understanding of offenses. Frank Beamer was a great coach, but very old school.

And I think from tape, Murray is probably as fast as Vick, but again from tape, he doesnt take the hits Vick did.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Please y’all got to stop with the Vick comparisons. Two totally different styles of qbs. One is pass first and runs only if he has too. The other is run first, not an accomplish thrower, and doesn’t know how to evade defenders when running.

It's a stupid comparison. Stupid. Lazy. Yeah they are both black and can run. One looked to run all the time. One threw from the pocket most of the time.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Matt Leinart was said to have a good work ethic in college, but when he transitioned to the NFL, it wasn't good enough. I believe Kyler thinks he works hard, but I haven't seen him ever elevate. Grinders don't generally quit things. Perfectionists generally don't look unprepared. Players who love a game generally don't quit on it, they have to have it taken away. These are generalizations, but these are traits top NFL QBs have and Murray's decisions and actions have not embodied those.

Is he uber talented? Absolutely. But Michael Vick was bigger and faster and had more experience and still underachieved as a pro QB. I don't know why we should expect anything close to the level that Vick go to.

I see you skipped my comment about his height. Is that a concession?

 

[Krangodnzr]

@Chopper0080

Players transfer all of the time. That complaint is weak sauce. Its modern college football, this is how it goes.

Murray transferred even though he was going to be the starter. Kind of destroys your theory of him "quitting".

Quit on the As? So the kid us just supposed to go plan B when plan A is available? Baseball was always plan B.

I'd like to see you criticize things that matter like his footwork, or his release, or what his favorite Pokemon is, because you havent really mentioned anything compelling other than his relative few starts and Lack of tough competition.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I never said he sucks, I said he's terrible or overrated. I hope he does well if we keep him though. Are you his brother or a relatve?

I just want to know what makes you think that? Your the only one that has come to that conclusion. There is not one credible scout that will say he is terrible or overrated. Not even the Murray supporters who are sane have come to that conclusion. They just think Murray may be better which I can understand. The best organization in the league with arguably the greatest HC of all time are currently trying to trade for Rosen. But if you know more than BB please explain? What do you know that everyone else does not?

 

[dscher]

@Chopper0080

Players transfer all of the time. That complaint is weak sauce. Its modern college football, this is how it goes.

Murray transferred even though he was going to be the starter. Kind of destroys your theory of him "quitting".

Quit on the As? So the kid us just supposed to go plan B when plan A is available? Baseball was always plan B.

I'd like to see you criticize things that matter like his footwork, or his release, or what his favorite Pokemon is, because you havent really mentioned anything compelling other than his relative few starts and Lack of tough competition.

They are definitely very big generalizations and are highly speculative. If it's something like his height or his durability based on his size..that seems rational. Grasping at straws doesn't add validity to any debate. Imo It's like saying Rosen will face hurdles because he is a rich kid that had everything given to him in his early life. Not fair to Rosen. Not fair to Murray .

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I don't believe in curses, but Mayfield had a very good year last year. Him and Murray ran the same offense in college.

Heisman-winning QB's have had decent years before, but not many have ever actually won anything significant in the NFL.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

It's a stupid comparison. Stupid. Lazy. Yeah they are both black and can run. One looked to run all the time. One threw from the pocket most of the time.

So, he's more like a shorter Andre Ware?

Ware put up huge passing numbers at Houston, won the Heisman, and had an unremarkable pro career.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Biased opinion
The offensive line played poorly almost the whole game, and OU offensive line is far from being the best
They lost 1vs1 with Alabama pass rushers almost the whole game, just his mobility allowed him to make something happen

If u want to use that game to detract Murray talent u wrong, cause the game last 60 min and he played good following the 3 series and Alabama didn't play any soft defense

This is not an accurate statement . If you listen to the game, the announcers even say that Alabama had pulled it best defensive player in the fourth quarter And we’re playing more prevent than being aggressive. I like Murray, but to say he hasn’t shown flaws or isn’t an extremely high risk is just foolish.

 

[Arz101]

Just heard Carson Palmer say he would draft Murray because he looks to be the best player in the draft and you have to take advantage of having the first pick... no Carson no, I like you man lol

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[Crimson Warrior]

@Chopper0080

Players transfer all of the time. That complaint is weak sauce. Its modern college football, this is how it goes.

Murray transferred even though he was going to be the starter. Kind of destroys your theory of him "quitting".

Quit on the As? So the kid us just supposed to go plan B when plan A is available? Baseball was always plan B.

I'd like to see you criticize things that matter like his footwork, or his release, or what his favorite Pokemon is, because you havent really mentioned anything compelling other than his relative few starts and Lack of tough competition.

Amen to the bolded part. Difficult to change someone's mind with an assertion that player X "might not work hard enough at the next level".

But just for fun @Chopper0080 , I'll throw out the first 2018 OU- TX game. OU was down by 21 going into the 4th quarter. The game all but over. Perfect opportunity for an "entitled", "uncommitted" player like Murray to pack it in right? Live to fight another day? Got the fat baseball contract waiting...

No. Murray bowed up. He took over the game, took his game the next level, to pull OU into a tie. Only to have is his effort wasted by the defense. But it was still awesome to watch.

I'm confident in his competitive spirit sir. Work ethic at the next level is TBD, that's true, but I think his heart is there.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So, he's more like a shorter Andre Ware?

Ware put up huge passing numbers at Houston, won the Heisman, and had an unremarkable pro career.

No he is the next Russell Wilson.

Josh Rosen is the next Dave Brown, or at least his play indicates that.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Biased opinion
The offensive line played poorly almost the whole game, and OU offensive line is far from being the best
They lost 1vs1 with Alabama pass rushers almost the whole game, just his mobility allowed him to make something happen

If u want to use that game to detract Murray talent u wrong, cause the game last 60 min and he played good following the 3 series and Alabama didn't play any soft defense

Except that the absolutely were the best. And won the award for best O line in CFB.

 

[Ronin]

Darren Urban‏Verified account @Cardschatter 53s54 seconds ago
Kingsbury on No. 1 pick: Still in the information gathering stage. I don’t know when that decision will be made.

 

[HeHasRosen]

So, he's more like a shorter Andre Ware?

Ware put up huge passing numbers at Houston, won the Heisman, and had an unremarkable pro career.

Very similar situations. He was paired with a HC who ran the run and shoot which Ware ran in college. He like Murray was supposed to come in and revolutionise the game. If people don't remember this it's for a reason. They never amounted to jack and it didn't work.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's a stupid comparison. Stupid. Lazy. Yeah they are both black and can run. One looked to run all the time. One threw from the pocket most of the time.

Isn't that the entire season you take Kyler Murray? Because of his ability to run which will help compensate for his lack of size?

I don't see where comparing him to the most athletic QB 6'0 and under in NFL history is stupid or lazy. When you have few frames of reference for a guy under 6'0 and with under two seasons of college experience...you have to take what you can get. Who else do you want to compare him to?

 

[Chopper0080]

Please y’all got to stop with the Vick comparisons. Two totally different styles of qbs. One is pass first and runs only if he has too. The other is run first, not an accomplish thrower, and doesn’t know how to evade defenders when running.

See above

 

[HeHasRosen]

Isn't that the entire season you take Kyler Murray? Because of his ability to run which will help compensate for his lack of size?

I don't see where comparing him to the most athletic QB 6'0 and under in NFL history is stupid or lazy. When you have few frames of reference for a guy under 6'0 and with under two seasons of college experience...you have to take what you can get. Who else do you want to compare him to?

Johnny Manziel 2.0

 

[Chopper0080]

I think he'll never amount to much more than a backup qb, but everyone has their own opinion. Good luck to him wherever he lands...

I may disagree and get why people sharing your opinion would prefer to go with Murray. I would just like to see people acknowledge that Murray has a huge risk factor attached to him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Isn't that the entire season you take Kyler Murray? Because of his ability to run which will help compensate for his lack of size?

I don't see where comparing him to the most athletic QB 6'0 and under in NFL history is stupid or lazy. When you have few frames of reference for a guy under 6'0 and with under two seasons of college experience...you have to take what you can get. Who else do you want to compare him to?

I would pick one who, I don't know, attempted a similar number of passes in a season.

Fun fact: Kyler Murray attempted 398 passes last year vs. 343 in his TWO seasons at VT.

So they are both brown skinned and can run really fast. One (Murray) threw nearly as many passes as Andrew Luck did his last season in college, and the other (Vick) threw as many as Eric Crouch did his last season.

Vick is comparable to Crouch

Murray is comparable to Luck

in terms of passing attempts.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Johnny Manziel 2.0

Manziel is a better comp, but their passing style is every different. One was disciplined and stayed in the pocket, while the other left the pocket and heaved prayers to Evans all of the time.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I may disagree and get why people sharing your opinion would prefer to go with Murray. I would just like to see people acknowledge that Murray has a huge risk factor attached to him.

I differ on what I perceive as a risk.

I don't agree on the character risks that you throw out because I can easily explain those away.

I do agree on the lack of sample size and his lack of competition. The Big 12 just doesn't play defense anymore.

 

[Chopper0080]

Johnny Manziel 2.0

Let's compare

5'11 207
5'10 207

9 7/8
9 1/2

4.6
4.4 (since he didn't run we will guess)

26 games started
17 games started

595 completed
350 completed

863 attempts
519 attempts

68.9 comp %
67.4 comp %

7820 yards passing
5406 yards passing

63 TDs to 22 Ints
50 TDs to 14 Ints

345 rushing attempts
207 rushing attempts

2169 yards and 30 TDs rushing
1478 yards and 13 TDs rushing

Not a terrible comp. We can all agree Murray is not the train wreck of a person that Manziel was.