BW52
Registered
And you Murray fanboys keep drinking the Kyler Koolaid.
Kyler Murray, you will become a Cardinal. It is....
- Thread starter SeattleCard
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And you Murray fanboys keep drinking the Kyler Koolaid.
BW52
Registered
ARZCardinals
ASFN Lifer
Fanboys...please
you can't back ANY of your hate with stats...just that you don't like him.
The hate you and others have here is simple ignorance .....try typing something that is factual regarding Murray on the field ...what didn't he do during an entire game?
Name one off the field issue? ...yea none
ARZCardinals
ASFN Lifer
You mean where he played in got a 276.5 QB Rating and threw 85.7% accuracy
yea you won that one
or was it his next year where he had a 199.2 QB Rating and threw 69.0% accuracy
You got me....yep you're right
Go back to your Max Hall, John Skelton and Logan Thomas way of thinking
BW52
Registered
If you are too hardheaded to understand why some people don't want to draft Murray then that's your problem.Calling not wanting Murray as being based on "hate" just shows stupidity and ignorance.
BW52
Registered
Coming off the bench.Tell me about all those starts he made his first couple of years.Wait you mean mister super duper transcendent all world QB couldn't beat out the other QBs to start?Even at Texas A&M?
BW52
Registered
Get back to your Chargers board .Go be obnoxious on that board.You are the one bringing the "hate" word here .
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
I'm cool either way, to be honest.
I love the idea of "no risk it, no biscuit" approach and drafting Kyler Murray. I think he CAN be a transcendent player.
I also love the idea of Rosen turning it around with a true QB mentorship program. And drafting Bosa/Q Williams and having a nasty defense that should be feared.
I love the idea of "no risk it, no biscuit" approach and drafting Kyler Murray. I think he CAN be a transcendent player.
I also love the idea of Rosen turning it around with a true QB mentorship program. And drafting Bosa/Q Williams and having a nasty defense that should be feared.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
and none of them mean that Murray CAN'T be successful, but they all need to be considered.
Thinking just now, a big part of my preference for Rosen over Murray might be that I feel like I have seen the worst that Rosen can be. He should never be on a worse roster, with more oline injuries, and more poorly coached than he was last year. And he still won three games which is amazing to me.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
I think Rosen can be a very good NFL QB. Every point you've made is 100% true.
I just believe that Murray is probably going to be better, but I can definitely see how some don't want to gamble on him.
One point to counter one of your arguments about him not beating out Mayfield....Mayfield was pretty freaking good....few college QBs would beat him out.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
A couple things here...
First, a preference for Rosen is not hate for Murray.
Secondly...I care more about high school QB recruitment rankings than I do actual high school performance. (though it only tells you the players entry point)
Third...I don't care about how awesome a players college stats are, especially those at top Universities. There is a threshold I am looking for and I don't really care how far over that threshold you are. Guys at Oklahoma, USC, Ohio St, and other premier college programs SHOULD BE throwing for the most yards because they are playing with the most talent.
Fourth, what does batted balls have to do with anything?
Lastly, no off the field issues unless you count quitting on Texas A&M and then quitting on the Oakland A's...but hey, THAT IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT GUYS!!!
BW52
Registered
and no one is "hating" Murray.Differences of opinions and differences on the risk.You see that .Most see that.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
You didn't ask what his stats were, you asked for a season he did not end up in the championship...which is every year of college if you are speaking of the National Championship...the one that matters. (which I don't really care about, but this was your argument not mine)
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Here is where I get stuck...what is the path the Murray has to take to be successful?
He is going to have to learn how to move within the pocket to create sight lines. All short QBs have to learn this to be successful in the NFL.
He is going to need a ton of experience having only 17 college starts and attempting 519 passes. Sam Darnold was considered raw and he started 27 games and attempted 846 passes. Josh Rosen had 30 starts and 1170 attempts when he was drafted and was almost a year younger.
He is going to have to learn to overcome subpar talent. He has only had to do that once while he was at Oklahoma, and it wasn't great. Yes, it was only one game, but that is going to be his every day life with AZ. All QBs from major colleges have to learn this.
He is going to have to figure out how to not take hits as he has a smaller build. Russ and Brees are both really good at this which is why they stay healthy. RGIII was not.
He is going to have to adjust to the NFL. Every young QB has to. It is a different animal.
He is going to have to deal with the pressure of being a number one pick and the QB of a franchise. He can't have anymore Dan Patrick interviews or refuse to do all of the work.
These are the hurdles. And they are going to take a ton of work to overcome because he is not benefited with greater physical gifts or a ton of experience. I just have a hard time seeing the guy who quit on Texas A&M and the Oakland A's and flubbed his big interview on the Dan Patrick show as the guy who is going to put in that work.
Is it so hard to understand there are people who have some doubts about a undersized qb coming out of college that played in a defensively weak conference moving up to the big boys club where everone is bigger and faster than the fastest guys he ever played against AND would be coming to a team that has a terrible offensive line and a receiving corp who at the moment may be the worst in the league? If I recall correctly YOU said we should draft and replace the entire offensive line and if you still believe that aren’t you setting Murray up to fail. Wait , I’ll answer that for you. You will reply , “ Murray will make our o-line better.” As someone else said nobody on this site are experts. We all post opinions about our beloved big red. It’s not about hate and everyone’s opinions are as valid as yours. It’s like a disclaimer for nutrasystem when they show a guy who’s lost 125 lbs. “Results may vary and are not typical.”
This seems a little judgy to me. Doesn't every young kid have hurdles? There were plenty of scouts who doubted Rosen and his attitude with being a little spoiled rich kid and wouldn't have to work at McDonalds if football didn't work out. That could be interpreted in a negative way by some as well. As Joel Klatt pointed out.. he is a walking contradiction. Look, we don't know enough about these kids to make accurate depictions of their character. IMO. It's silly...a flubbed interview on a talk show and wouldn't put in the work? That's a weird conclusion to jump to..
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
ESPN's #1 ranked dual threat QB. He was/is a legend in Texas HS history. Better than Brees, Foles, and many other really good prep and college QBs.
I care about mechanics and how well passers throw NFL routes. Murray threw with really good velocity, and good ball placement. He rarely had to thread the needle, but you did see some of those throws in the Alabama game.
I've looked quite a bit at the Alabama game, and at first I came to the impression that Murray played like crap, but you know what? If playing like crap is throwing for 300 yards and rushing for 100 and bringing his team back, that's pretty damn impressive. If only Oklahoma played even a lick of defense, the game might have gone differently.
Tua had a great sophomore campaign, but he's not being knocked for how poorly he played against Clemson. He's viewed as a potential #1 overall.
You know what? I didn't hold Rosen's off the field issues against them, and they were far more damning than anything that has been said about Murray. Jim Mora clearly was given an opportunity to talk up his QB and he punted. Very lukewarm response, and was telling about what his coach thought about him.
As far as "quitting on Texas A&M, I guess you aren't too familiar with the situation? Sumlin basically jerked around three QBs, pulling them at a sniff of struggles. The top two QBs BOTH transferred (Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray). The third QB said that the coaching staff screwed around and wouldn't talk to the QBs about why they were being pulled. Furthermore, Murray was at the top of the depth chart when he decided to transfer. Sumlin is a good recruiter, but his roster management/game management is questionable. The fact that two 5 star QBs decided to transfer in one season answers your question.
Quitting on the A's? This is a new one and I think you are quibbling here. Prior to this season, Murray was not on anyone's radar to play in the NFL. His lone season at Texas A&M he was jerked around and used in wildcat packages. The A's drafted him, yes, but football has always been his first love. I think it's a stretch to say he "quit" on the A's. He just found out he has a chance to legitimately play football at the highest level.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
You do realize that Kyler Murray has been this height since he was like a freshman in high school? There is a full season of college tape that answers this. Even 6'5 QBs can't see over their offensive lines. It's literally a tin foil hat thought that fans think of that isn't real in football. Every QB that plays the game has to create sight lines.
It's a legit concern, but I think with some of the offenses being run in college now, stress the QB more than ever. But yes, it's my biggest concern for Murray since few people have been successful without 30 starts.
And why I want him is that I didn't see good things from Rosen in this regard. Every analytic you can judge a QB shows that even when everything was right, Rosen was terrible last year. In the Alabama game, you saw Murray adjust and start playing his game. The next time I see that from Rosen in a Cardinals uniform will be the first time.
He is going to have to figure out ho
Watch his tape, Murray IS REALLY GOOD at this. Time after time, Murray runs out of bounds, slides, adjusts his body not to take the big hit. This is something that Murray is already good at.
Yes he will.
Do you honestly think Murray would have as good a season as he had last year without working hard? That's what the people close to Murray say, that he works his butt off and it shows by what he has accomplished on the field. As far as the interview is concerned, I listened to it and while it was awkward as hell, I chalk it up as a really shy kid who isn't used to this kind of limelight.
I agree with the lack of experience quote and the fact that the NFL is harder but the rest??? I had the same questions, and honestly, I've read more, watched more, and seen more of Murray than any other potential Cardinals 1st round pick and most of the questions you are asking, I've already toiled over them and I'm satisfied they aren't issues.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Do you think Rosen wasn't jerked around at UCLA??? The difference is that one person stayed and grinded it out and the other transferred to be a backup. It isn't everything, I agree, but it is something.
So, when Murray thought, because he transferred to be a backup, that he was not going to be able to play in the NFL he was going to give up football to play baseball. But then, when it became an option to play football, he quit playing baseball to play football again. Does that sound like a committed individual to you? Does that sound like the story of a 10 year All Pro QB? Again, it isn't everything, but it's something.
In the NFL, if a QB throws for 300 yards and runs for over 100 AFTER the team is down 28-0...we all call those garbage time stats. Why is it different in college? When the game was close and Murray had to play with inferior talent, he crapped the bed. Yes, he lit it up once the game was out of reach, but those are garbage time stats.
Tua is not close yet...but that is a different argument.
###
Again, where is this the bio of a great NFL QB?
Star high school player who commits and goes to a college in his home state of Texas.
He then can't win the starting job, doesn't like the coaches (per your inference) and then transfers to the primary rival state of the state he played high school ball in.
He transfers knowing the incumbent QB is really good, and he has to sit out a year.
He then can't beat out the incumbent starter and sits on the bench.
He gives up his dream and commits to playing baseball prior to becoming the default starter after the previous guy goes to the pros.
He then is successful under the best offensive coach in college football, great skill position talent, and with the best offensive line in college football.
In the one game of the year he is not favored to win, he leads his team to one first down in the first three drives and watches his team go down 28-0. Now, down by four scores, he has a good game.
He then decides to quit the baseball career he had committed to, and pursue a career in the NFL after finding out he is going to be a first round pick.
He refuses to work out at the combine, and will not run the 40 at his pro day despite being a dual threat QB who is undersized.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
It isn't judgey, these are the hurdles.
If Murray was 6'3 230 lbs he would have less hurdles to overcome.
If he had not lost a year of college experience to a transfer and then sat on the bench for a year, he would have less hurdles to overcome.
If he had not committed to Texas A&M and the Oakland A's and then bailed on both of those commitments, he would have less hurdles to overcome.
If he would have shown he could nail a big time interview, he would have less hurdles to overcome.
If he would have shown he could elevate lesser talent over a better team, he would have less hurdles to overcome.
BUT, all of these things DID happen. And because they happened, they have created questions and hurdles.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Matt Leinart was said to have a good work ethic in college, but when he transitioned to the NFL, it wasn't good enough. I believe Kyler thinks he works hard, but I haven't seen him ever elevate. Grinders don't generally quit things. Perfectionists generally don't look unprepared. Players who love a game generally don't quit on it, they have to have it taken away. These are generalizations, but these are traits top NFL QBs have and Murray's decisions and actions have not embodied those.
Is he uber talented? Absolutely. But Michael Vick was bigger and faster and had more experience and still underachieved as a pro QB. I don't know why we should expect anything close to the level that Vick go to.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
When did Rivers, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Luck or Wentz come across poorly in a whiteboard session? By itself, it doesn't sound like much, but with everything else, it is a reason for concern.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
And for those who hated Joey Bosa choosing to rehab and prepare for the draft over staying in school with his team.
Kyler only chose football once he was confident he was going to be a first round pick and make more money than he was scheduled to make with the A's. Does that sound like someone who will do whatever it takes to make it in football?
Kyler only chose football once he was confident he was going to be a first round pick and make more money than he was scheduled to make with the A's. Does that sound like someone who will do whatever it takes to make it in football?
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Considering Kevin Sumlin didn’t choose Murray makes me think he should’ve won the job and this is coming from an Arizona fan. 
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